What do you watch with? (Dub or Sub?)

[Reichu]

I <3 subs.

P.S. You wouldn't happen to be a Berserk fan as well, would you Reichu? If so, what do you mean by 'miscasting'? I'm afraid I've only seen the dub for Berserk. I just can't get over my love for the guy who did Griffith. His voice sends chills down my spine (no, not that way). I'd have a hard time imagining any VA who could outdo his performance (Japanese or otherwise).

I've only watched it in Japanese, and not all the way through (over halfway). Most of the protagonists I think were well-done (like Griffith and Guts), but there is a lot of cheesy acting amongst the bad guys. (Come to think of it, this happens a lot in anime...! Seele's old goats somehow manage not to hit that particular nerve of mine, though.) Yuko Miyamura (who also did Asuka) played ... Caska (sp?), and while her acting was done with conviction, somehow she just doesn't FEEL like the character to me; something isn't right. I personally think she was miscast, although she did the best with the role that she could.

Again, I do ask: The process of dubbing seems to assume that the audio compotent is somehow less important than the rest and the complete replacement of the dialogue is somehow permissable. Where on Earth does this assumption come from?[/i]

[AchtungAffen]

I think that's more of a being used to issue. If you were used to subs you wouldn't be saying that.

The thing is, I am used to subtitles. I've seen quite a few animes (what the hell is the plural of anime?) with the subs on. Doesn't mean I like them, hell I hate them. I just like the anime more. They are like a neccessary evil if you ask me.

As I said before, if you were really used to them you wouldn't hate them.

[Hexon.Arq]

In the case of live action, I'd personally rather have no translation available and try to guess what was going on than to split my sides at the comical dub. Animation is only afforded leeway because the lips, in essence, are broken, but the principle should remain untouched.

On a sidenote, does anyone know why dubbers always seem to fill in silence with random grunts and huh's?

[Reichu]

Speaking of filling in, check out what they did to Shinji and Asuka's kissing scene. They seemed to miss the whole point that NOTHING WAS HAPPENING, and the scene was SUPPOSED TO BE silent save for the background song (well, and Pen^2).

[Shin-seiki]

Speaking of filling in, check out what they did to Shinji and Asuka's kissing scene. They seemed to miss the whole point that NOTHING WAS HAPPENING, and the scene was SUPPOSED TO BE silent save for the background song (well, and Pen^2).

More "filling in" stupidity: In the #26' "replay" of the kissing scene, when Asuka gives Shinji a vicious (and well deserved) kick, Spike lets out a gratuitous and ridiculous "Oww!!" that pretty much ruins the tone of this utterly serious moment.
And do I need mention how AWL gratuitously added a gunshot effect to the scene in D&R where Kaji buys the farm, because she is so very, very stupid that she failed to comprehend that the slapping sound she replaced with the gunshot was intended as an audio segue to the next scene where Shinji tells Asuka that Kaji is dead (that was Asuka slapping Shinji, of course!) What a moron....

[Dave]

As I said before, if you were really used to them you wouldn't hate them.

Well thanks for telling me what I'm used to. Are you really saying that you'd prefer watching a show subbed than to understanding the original language (and thus requiring no sub)? I watch shows subbed for one of three reasons: 1)The dub sucks horribly (some are good) 2)The show isn't available any other way 3)I don't speak Japanese yet. None of those reasons involve me liking the stupid lines of text.

[Reichu]

The whole point of subtitles is to allow people to understand and enjoy films that are in a language that they do not know (at least, not fluently). They're an important cultural bridge. Of course, you know, it would be NICE to be fluent in every single language that film is produced for, but that's just not practical for most people.

I wonder if deaf people complain about the fact that they have to read whenever they watch TV.

[Dave]

I wonder if deaf people complain about the fact that they have to read whenever they watch TV.

I don't think deaf people watch much TV.

[Reichu]

I don't think deaf people watch much TV.

They make all of those closed captions for SOMEbody (other than me, of course).

[thewayneiac]

Speaking of filling in, check out what they did to Shinji and Asuka's kissing scene. They seemed to miss the whole point that NOTHING WAS HAPPENING, and the scene was SUPPOSED TO BE silent save for the background song (well, and Pen^2).

More "filling in" stupidity: In the #26' "replay" of the kissing scene, when Asuka gives Shinji a vicious (and well deserved) kick, Spike lets out a gratuitous and ridiculous "Oww!!" that pretty much ruins the tone of this utterly serious moment.
And do I need mention how AWL gratuitously added a gunshot effect to the scene in D&R where Kaji buys the farm, because she is so very, very stupid that she failed to comprehend that the slapping sound she replaced with the gunshot was intended as an audio segue to the next scene where Shinji tells Asuka that Kaji is dead (that was Asuka slapping Shinji, of course!) What a moron....

Also in Ep. 15 after the kiss, when she turns and runs for the bathroom ADV dubs in a sort of "blech!" sound, missing the point that she was too humiliated to say anything. (Until she started pretending to gargle).

This brings up another thing that I really hate about dubs: extra dialog. On top of inaccurate translations, they actually add in extra diolog that isn't a translation of anything because it doesn't exist in the original. This happens in every show I can think of. Whenever a character turns his back or walks offscreen they put in dialog that never existed in the original, as if they believe that our attention spans are so short that we will change the channel or hit the off button and put in a different DVD if we don't hear words for even 2 seconds. If the creators of these shows wanted there to be dialog there, they would have put it in themselves. This represents a major corruption of the original artistic intent.

For example, if you have Manga's DVD of Lupin III Cagliostro Castle, check out the border crossing scene near the beginning. In the original, this scene has no dialog at all. It is shot, so to speak, through the passenger window, so you see Jigen in profile, the back of Lupin's head, and the border guard's face. The guard looks at their passports, leans forward to get a better look at Jigen, then waves them through. The scene concludes with a long shot of the car driving off. But because we are seeing the back of Lupin's head and not his mouth, in the dub they add in a bunch of words that they made up themselves. Lupin greets the guard; when the guard leans forward to look at Jigen, Lupin says "That's my dad." Then during the shot of the car leaving they have the Guard say "Have a nice stay!", and Jigen say "Your Dad?!"

The addition of extra dialog in this and most other dubs is completely gratuitous, and is enough to keep me away from dubs by itself (as if I needed some reason in addition to the uniformly attrocious performances shared by all anime dubs). I wan't to see and hear the original artistic vision.

There's also the fact that quite a few dubs are pretty damn good.

I can't agree. I've never heard a good anime dub. Not one, ever.

[Dave]

I can't agree. I've never heard a good anime dub. Not one, ever.

Check out the dub for Full Metal Panic. If you still think all dubs suck after watching that, I guess we'll just have to go our seperate ways. By the way, I like your Sugar avatar. I thought I was the only male on the whole planet who actually liked that show.

[Mr. Tines]

This brings up another thing that I really hate about dubs: extra dialog. On top of inaccurate translations, they actually add in extra diolog that isn't a translation of anything because it doesn't exist in the original. This happens in every show I can think of.

Yes. Even if you don't understand a word of the language, you use the sound of a voice as a way of performing a basic integrity check on the translation in a subtitle.

Alas, there is a lot of such dub-titling about. About half the sub-titles in Laputa, as debauched by Buena Vista, are spurious additions (but by contrast they barely bother to provide any text during the main villain's long tirade). Even classy shows like Noir added occasional lines to the subtitles, usually during long-shots of crowds, but in one place added one character calling another's name, in a manner that have changed the entire tenor of the scene.

And thinking of Noir, one of the reasons for watching that in sub, is that the USAn accents grate on my ears.

Of course if you do know the language, but aren't fluent/idiomatic, subtitling is useful as a crutch (as I find when watching French movies - like this afternoon watching "A very long Engagement" - which I highly recommend).

[Shin-seiki]

I can't agree. I've never heard a good anime dub. Not one, ever.

Check out the dub for Full Metal Panic. If you still think all dubs suck after watching that, I guess we'll just have to go our seperate ways. By the way, I like your Sugar avatar. I thought I was the only male on the whole planet who actually liked that show.

The FMP dub is (just barely) tolerable, because the three main characters (Sousuke, Kaname, and Teletha) are performed with reasonable competence, but most of the rest of the rest of the cast, especially the bit parts, are damn annoying. SKU is another one where I don't quite hate it outright, because the English language VA for Utena herself actually manages to do justice to the role (the rest of the cast is awfull...)

[Reichu]

Well, regardless, the entire dub cast of SKU is under the strange impression that "Tenjou" is French, so they pronounce it as if it were "Tenjuu"!! Not to mention they all say "Utena" funny...

[AchtungAffen]

Fire le missiles!

They probably got that from the Fillete revolutionaire part. Which makes me wonder, isn't "fillete" (sp?) something more childish than shoujo?

Are you really saying that you'd prefer watching a show subbed than to understanding the original language

I don't think I ever said that. If I knew the original language so well I wouldn't be using subs. But if I don't, then better subs, as they have an intrinsecally essence which allows more of the original meaning to be apprehended.

I watch shows subbed for one of three reasons: 1)The dub sucks horribly (some are good) 2)The show isn't available any other way 3)I don't speak Japanese yet. None of those reasons involve me liking the stupid lines of text.

Then you're probably not processing that much from hearing the original language. If possible I bet you always want to get as much as you can from the shows you watch, so if you were getting anything more from hearing the original voices you'll always choose them instead of dubs. I feel like I do, and that's why I always eat subbed.

[Sanada]

Dub

[Reichu]

Then you're probably not processing that much from hearing the original language.

Which seems kind of odd, since Dave claims that he wants to learn it! A lot of learning can occur just by watching subtitled films in another language, though I suppose some people pick more up this way than others.

If possible I bet you always want to get as much as you can from the shows you watch, so if you were getting anything more from hearing the original voices you'll always choose them instead of dubs. I feel like I do, and that's why I always eat subbed.

For my part, I don't feel I get more; I KNOW I get more! The only thing I feel while watching a dub are my neurons committing suicide one by one. And it doesn't really matter WHAT kind of a dub it is, either. Anime dubbed into English, an American film dubbed into Japanese -- either way, it is painful. It surprises me that so many anime fans are completely oblivious to the inherently Evil (TM) nature of dubs.

Stimulate your brain -- read while you watch TV!

[AchtungAffen]

That's right. When I was still studying with my ex Japanese teacher, she and her friends were always astonished at how fast I kept learning. They didn't know I had an ace up my sleeve. Once one of my girlie classmates asked what the secret was, and she put a weird face when I confessed.

Still, I do believe that keeping in contact with the language is the best way to learn it. In fact, I learnt english by myself by listening endlessly at tender ages to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. If I could do it with English, then I bet Japanese and anime are the best didactical method I can get.

[Dave]

Can you seriously learn a language like that? I mean I am picking up a few sayings here and there, but it doesn't feel like I'll ever be able to speak Japanese at this rate. And unfortuneatly, the college I'm attending doesn't offer a Japanese course. :( I really would prefer to watch the shows the way they were made, so do you have any hints or tips to speed my learning along?

[AchtungAffen]

Of course you'll need some formal learning, but anime will speed up that process. With english and me t'was differente because my father and sister already knew it when I started gettting interested. With Japanese I was on my own.