Yuko Miyamura wants to rape Rei (Animage 1996 Anno x Miyamura discussion)

[Xard]

In one of those (drunken) post-series conversations between Anno and Miyamura she made it clear just how stereotypically 'Japanese' and un-PC their sex drives are. Pretty based. Sasuga amateur JAV actress.

This exchange is an excerpt from much longer discussion. It took place after TV series had been finished and before Death & Rebirth and End of Evangelion were in production. The conversation between Hideaki Anno and Yuko Miyamura was published in July 1996 issue of Animage.

"Rei gets reiped" t. Miyamura

Anno: First of all, men who want to be spoiled by women like this line without a doubt. If such a man is told "anta baka" or the like in a gentle voice it is enough to make him fall madly in love.
AM: Isn't director Anno like that himself?
Anno: I'm like that without a doubt.
AM: Miyamura, do you understand this feeling?
Miyamura: My position is that of a woman, so not really. In my case, rather than Asuka-chan something like "aaahhh I want to pin down a cold girl like Rei-chan" would be a preferred scenario.
AM: She'd be at your mercy?
Miyamura: She'd be at my mercy. She wouldn't seem to say anything after the deed either.
AM: "After the deed"? (laugh)
Miyamura: You know, Asuka seems like she'd make a lot of noise, if pinned down.
Anno: She seems like she'd make many orders.
Miyamura: Exactly. For example "stop!" or "it hurts!"
Anno: In the end you'd get told "you suck" by her (laugh)
Miyamura: (what, you mean by me?) (laugh)
AM: (in a somewhat dumbfounded state) Is Yuko Miyamura a man...
Miyamura: IF I was a man... it's that kind of talk.
Anno: Rei seems like she'd be less trouble.
AM: She is the most popular character, Rei that is.
Miyamura: I wonder if everyone has such desires.
Anno: They do, don't they. People who are S (sadistic) go for Rei for sure, with their sadistic desire. On the other hand, I think M (masochistic) types go for Asuka. As for Misato, people who are her generation agewise but psychologically childish are inclined towards her.
Miyamura: But don't humans have both (S&M) sides?
Anno: Yes, they do. Fundamentally everyone has. It's only a question of which side is more dominant.

TL notes:

1. I've translated Miyamura's description of Rei as "cold girl", but the original expression 無機質な女の子 could also be rendered as "inhumane girl" or "robotic girl" or even "inorganic girl". Cold girl is the best choice in terms of nuance.

2. 押し倒す = oshitaosu means 1. to pin down; to knock down; to push (and hold) somebody down (esp. with sexual connotations)​

So the rapey vibe in what I have translated as "pin down" is not accidental at all.

3. Asuka's post-coital judgement on her partner as ヘタクソ or hetakuso I've translated as "you suck". I just want to remove any potential ambiguity: no, this is not a moral judgement or whatever, Asuka is dissing her hypothetical partner for being unskillful.

Original transcript  SPOILER: Show

庵野 「女にスポイルされたがっている男は、まず間違いなく、このセリフを好みますね。絶対、気持ちイイはずですよ。「あんた、バカぁ～」とかやさしく言われたら、それだけでメロメロってきますよね。」
AM 「それは、庵野監督がそうなんじゃないですか。」
庵野 「僕は間違いなくそうですね。」
AM 「この感じ、宮村さんは、わかります?」
宮村 「私は女の立場なんで、わかんないっすねえ。私は、アスカちゃんよりは、レイちゃんみたいな、無機質な女の子を押し倒して～みたいなほうが好きだな。」
AM 「なすがまま?」
宮村 「なすがまま。終わってからも何も言わなそうじゃないですか。」
AM 「終わってからって?（笑）。」
宮村 「アスカってうるさそうなんだもん、押し倒すと。」
庵野 「いろいろ注文つけそうだよね。」
宮村 「ねえ。「やめてよ～」とか、「痛いのよ」とか。」
庵野「ラストに「ヘタクソ」とか（笑）。」
宮村 「「あたしがぁ?」（笑）。」
AM 「（ややボウゼンと）宮村優子って、男なのかな。」
宮村 「もし男だったら……という話なんですよ。」
庵野 「レイのほうが、めんどくさくなさそうですね。」
AM「人気も一番なんだよね、レイが。」
宮村「みんなそういう願望があるのかなあ。」
庵野「あるんじゃないスか。S（サディスト）の人は、間違いなくレイにいきますよね、S願望で。M（マゾヒスト）の人はアスカにいくと思うんですけどね。で、同世代の年代の女の人と、精神的に子どもの人はミサトにいく傾向がある。」
宮村「でも、人間って両方あるんじゃないんですかあ。」
庵野「そう、両方あるよ。基本的にはみんなある。どっちが大きいかっていう違いがあるだけ。

[FelipeFritschF]

This is mentioned in gwern's archive (and indirectly from the Kaibunsho) as:

1996/06/10: Animage (Anime Magazine) July issue includes a dialog between Director Anno and Yuko Miyamura (Asuka voice actress) in which Anno again criticizes anime fans (albeit tempered by self-deprecation and some jests by Miyamura) and makes a number of other frank remarks and criticisms.

Xard is also not feeling like adding some more excerpts until he eventually (possibly) translates the rest of the interview, so I'll put it in:

庵野 「アスカはいいキャラです。あんなに思い入れるつもりもなかったから。（キャラクター作りでは）役者のフィードバックはかなり大きいですから、アスカがああなったのも、宮村のせいかも知れないね。」

Anno: Asuka is a good character. I had no intention to become so attached to her. (In creating a character) feedback from the performer is quite important, so it might be because of Miyamura Asuka ended up like that.

Animage guy asks if Miyamura if she has anything more she wants to say, adding that for sure she expressed wish for the director to do something about Asuka who has been abandoned

Miyamura: I'm sure he'll do something (for Asuka) with the video!
Anno: Please don't expect too much (laugh)
AM: Thank you very much

"the video" refers to what would eventually be EoE.

[MarqFJA87]

I'm surprised that this interview only came to light now despite being over 20 years old.

[FelipeFritschF]

I'm surprised that this interview only came to light now despite being over 20 years old.

Not everything out there is even that relevant, even if it is well known. This and other interviews are already mentioned and/or referenced in the wiki and/or gwern's. This is mildly related to Eva but hardly essential. Many interviews like these are mostly Anno et al having fun, often drunk, and not really making any huge revelations or even talking about Eva at all - remember he also worked on many other titles and tons of these materials don't concern Eva specifically but rather Anno.

[orcot]

I hope the rest of the article is better
the line:

As for Misato, people who are her generation agewise but psychologically childish are inclined towards her.

" Makes me hopeful that they mean that anyone pinning for a imagenary character is to some extent childish and this entire thing is silly

Written like that out of context it smells of rape and pedophilia

(to Xard thank you for translating)

[Sailor Star Dust]

"the video" refers to what would eventually be EoE.

FWIW, that might also refer to the Director's Cuts episodes, e.g. https://wiki.evageeks.org/Episode_22 's VHS + LD release date(s) was February 5th '97 vs EoE being out in theaters July '97.

[Xard]

I hope the rest of the article is better
the line: " Makes me hopeful that they mean that anyone pinning for a imagenary character is to some extent childish and this entire thing is silly

You're welcome. Anyhow, my translation of the line might've been inadequate but "childish" here just means immaturity when it comes to mental age. Guys who want a "mommy gf" to take care of them, basically. It has nothing to do with pedophilia.

FWIW, that might also refer to the Director's Cuts episodes, e.g. https://wiki.evageeks.org/Episode_22 's VHS + LD release date(s) was February 5th '97 vs EoE being out in theaters July '97.

This is not an either/or thing, actually. Originally Anno et al only hoped success of the tv series would let them "fix" the ending etc. on home video format. At some point, in light of Eva's phenomenal commercial potential, Kadokawa CEO got involved and the OVA proposal was turned into a feature film project. This discussion took place before talk about doing a feature film came about, or at least before it had been decided. Hence Animage reporter, Anno and Miyamura talk about "video edition" all the time.

I'm not sure if DC scenes were first planned for Death & Rebirth or for home video releases of the episodes, because the time period overlaps considerably. From Eva Otaku:

- 1996/06/10: Animage (Anime Magazine) July issue includes a dialog between Director Anno and Yuko Miyamura (Asuka voice actress) in which Anno again criticizes anime fans (albeit tempered by self-deprecation and some jests by Miyamura) and makes a number of other frank remarks and criticisms. [XARD:This is the source for the remarks I have translated here]

- 1997/02/14: Director Anno and Tsuguhiko Kadokawa (Kadokawa Shoten President) hold an urgent press conference at which they announce that, "Original scenes will be added to the TV series compilation movie DEATH," "The initial theatrical release will include part of the new portion REBIRTH," and "The complete REBIRTH2 will be released in July." [Damage control?]

Death & Rebirth came out on March 14th so barely a month after Ep 22 DC was released on home video. I guess the new scenes were always intended to be part of both DCs and D&R. "Damage control" is not about inclusion of DC footage in D&R but about EoE proper getting postoned into next summer. Originally D&R and EoE were supposed to be one film.

In any case, at the time of this interview "video edition" refers to home video changes to series proper and to its redone finale in form of OVA.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Slipped my mind to ask in-thread earlier:

Sasuga amateur JAV actress.

This isn't even "mod mode", but an honest question: Is this kind of comment necessary? Miyamura shouldn't be "shamed" for having done adult work before her seiyuu career took off.

Death & Rebirth came out on March 14th so barely a month after Ep 22 DC was released on home video. I guess the new scenes were always intended to be part of both DCs and D&R. "Damage control" is not about inclusion of DC footage in D&R but about EoE proper getting postponed into next summer. Originally D&R and EoE were supposed to be one film.

Not all the "new" footage is in D&R anyway, some scenes are only in the Director's Cuts. Hmm, interesting stuff!

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I heard Miyamura's past work rumored from time to time, and tried to confirm it myself at one point before realizing that I really didn't care that much. Everyone had to get their start somewhere, and the Japanese economy in the 90's wasn't gonna make that easy for anybody. I got into working professionally in the US film industry right after the housing bubble burst in 2008, and my first couple of movies were all Christian movies, which, even as a Christian myself, I find that rather embarrassing.

SPOILER: Show

(Legal porn is 1200% more honest than the vast majority of "Christian"-branded entertainment.)

Aywho, this whole interview ranks second on my list of absurd Anno info. Number 1 the time he and Eriko Sato signed a toilet together after the production of Cutie Honey. Third would be the first and only time he bothered to dress nicely for a "Behind the Scenes" featurette in the Secret of Blue Water TV show. (Turn on "CC" for translation.) I saw Anno himself show up in a blazer and thought "Who is this guy? Who is he trying to be? Man, I forget how much depression alters someone's appearance."

[Xard]

This isn't even "mod mode", but an honest question: Is this kind of comment necessary? Miyamura shouldn't be "shamed" for having done adult work before her seiyuu career took off.

"Sasuga amateur JAV actress" just means how you'd translate it stereotypically: As expected of amateur JAV actress. There is no deeper meaning to my remark. Miyamura's vulgarity and nudge nudge wink wink comments on (at best) very grey area of sexual consent are fairly unusual for women seiyuus then and now. I had a genuine "wait did she really just say that LOL" reaction to this whole thing.

After moment of reflection that reaction was followed by "well, she did show up in porn before Eva and crash her whole career with that stuff, I guess this kind of raunchiness is not so unexpected" realization. Hence my sasuga quip.

So there is no further meaning to it. It's not even snark as such.

That said, way you frame this question is inducing. Is pro-porn stance now a prerequisite for posting on EGF or what?`

[Reichu]

You don't have to be "pro"-porn to be against women being given a hard time for participating in the industry. It sounded like you were doing precisely this -- shaming Miyamura -- and so you were asked to clarify your intentions. That's all.

You have a pretty notorious and incendiary reputation, and it precedes you by quite a bit. So I'm not sure why you're acting so surprised .

[Xard]

Not everything out there is even that relevant, even if it is well known. This and other interviews are already mentioned and/or referenced in the wiki and/or gwern's. This is mildly related to Eva but hardly essential. Many interviews like these are mostly Anno et al having fun, often drunk, and not really making any huge revelations or even talking about Eva at all - remember he also worked on many other titles and tons of these materials don't concern Eva specifically but rather Anno.

I hope the rest of the article is better "

There's a decent amount of substantial, serious material in that conversation. Quite a lot production talk like Anno bemoaning Episode 1 as a "complete failure", about "live" approach to writing Eva, about Anno's take on Asuka and importance of Miyamura for how she was depicted, about his intentions with Eva, criticism of fans/media, about EoTV in general, Miyamura's German lessons (either this same talk has come up elsewhere too or this part of convo has been translated years ago separately)... it's quite substantial stuff.

I had saved transcript of this discussion from Japanese fan site that went under years ago but I didn't really look into it until now. A lot of it is familiar to what has been said or written in other places or interviews, but I don't think there's ever been substantial translation of the whole conversation.

For me this sex stuff was by far the most entertaining and unexpected material in the dialogue. So to share the fun with people who can't read Japanese themselves I had no other choice than to translate the material.

You don't have to be "pro"-porn to be against women being given a hard time for participating in the industry. It sounded like you were doing precisely this -- shaming Miyamura -- and so you were asked to clarify your intentions. That's all.

As a matter of practical conduct I agree there's a strong presumption against holding such women responsible. Porn industry is just a particular, highly visible form of prostitution, with everything that entails about people caught up in it. Personal agency of performers is often compromised, by factors both external and internal. Hence the presumption against shaming and full moral accountability.

That said, you can't direct social opprobrium towards a poster expressing disapproval of Miyamura's JAV appearances in absolute, general terms both SSD and you use now unless

a) porn career is a positive good now you shouldn't shun on EGF (pro-porn Code of Conduct or whatever)

and/or

b) we know Miyamura is not fully culpable for her choices in this regard.

Neither me nor you know that b) is true (though I assume this is true to some extent at least due to aforementioned presumption of "innocence", hence why I wasn't shaming her). That's why SSD's response in particular looks like affirmation of some "sex work is work!" pro-porn ideological stance. Which in turn prompted my baffled response. I don't care if other users think porn career is really cool side job to seiyuu career, but declaring expressions of differing opinions on this illicit is tier indeed.

But then again, as I was not "shaming" Miyamura and there's no indication in OP I was doing that legitimacy of porn as career path wasn't even the issue here.

If it wasn't me but some other user who had written the OP in 100% identical form you folks wouldn't have brought this up at all. I was asked to "clarify my intentions" on the presumption my intentions are more or less malicious whenever there's a slightest ambiguity about a post of mine or a particular expression contained within. SSD and you are both fluent in Japanese, you know what sasuga means. You know nothing about the way I used the word implies by itself denunciation or even snarking.

You have a pretty notorious and incendiary reputation, and it precedes you by quite a bit. So I'm not sure why you're acting so surprised .

Let's change this into plain English:

"We dislike you and your posts so we'll constantly assume the worst of you - and then act surprised and hurt when you get snarky in response to our collective paranoia."

I appreciate relative civility of the public face you are presenting in this thread, but don't take me for a fool.

[UrsusArctos]

Frankly, the substantial, serious material in that conversation sounds like it could be a goldmine of information not otherwise available in the West and I'm really curious to know what else is in there.

Regarding the rest of the discussion - Xard, I understand that you feel angry and hurt, and I'm sorry you feel like you're being singled out. I'm sending my response to you as a PM so that it does not get misinterpreted on the forum.

[Xard]

Frankly, the substantial, serious material in that conversation sounds like it could be a goldmine of information not otherwise available in the West and I'm really curious to know what else is in there.

Yeah, they'd certainly be profitable to TL. I guess I'll get around to it eventually, like Felipe keeps telling me to do

Regarding the rest of the discussion - Xard, I understand that you feel angry and hurt, and I'm sorry you feel like you're being singled out. I'm sending my response to you as a PM so that it does not get misinterpreted on the forum.

That's fine. I'm not hurt by this so much as annoyed. I'm glad to take this unfortunate tangent to the pm's nevertheless. It didn't occur to me at all my casually thrown together introduction to the translation would prove somehow controversial. I certainly didn't expect it would be more controversial than the interview itself.

Good to have the topic back on track again.

[Berserker]

I mean..

SPOILER: Show

At this point this doesn't look like a chit chat thread to me.

[Xard]

There's 8-10 years worth forum history behind here, Berserker. Of course you wouldn't be aware of that background and that's ok.

I did make this thread as clickbaity haw haw that's gross but kinda funny Chit-Chat topic, however. Too bad people with baggage had to ruin it.

[Tankred]

I did make this thread as clickbaity haw haw that's gross but kinda funny Chit-Chat topic, however. Too bad people with baggage had to ruin it.

There's plenty of sabre-rattling in here and your "out of date" language is being used as casus belli for it no doubt. You're just using same old Xardian vernacular that was never an issue in the past (doubt these shots over the bow would have been fired in 2011). Most interesting content on here right now; is EGF's modus operandi to stamp it out now or something?

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ If someone is a former sex worker/porn actress/whatever you wanna call it, and they left that line of work to pursue other work, then it is usually considered in bad taste to bring it up again in casual conversation. However, I do think that the context of Miyamura’s past work might be tangentially related to the particular (and extremely interesting) topic at hand. It’s just that many people nowadays are sensitive to these kinds of topics (especially since earlier internet in general was kinda insensitive to these kinds of topics before), so if the subject is approached in certain ways, things can get a little heated. Also intent, inflection, and whatnot are difficult to read online.

As he said before, Xard does have a history on this forum, and, at least in my interactions, his posts mostly land on the more brash side of things. He hasn’t been back on here quite long enough for me to know if he’s mellowed out or not.




Xard, if everything is all in good, pure fun, then I seriously cannot wait to see more translated material like this. For me, Japanese texts like this within their own media landscape are priceless and fascinating, and a lot of them certainly help me vet some of the crazier gaijin fan theories that naturally arise for something as wild as Eva. I wanna see more things like this.

[Xard]

I think forum staff was clear about this tangential issue being taken to pm's, fellas. I haven't had time to reply yet to pm inquiries, but I'll get to those ASAP.
Thank you two for your contributions, anyhow!

I'm not going to repeat the above explanation for my non-crime. It was just a casual musing, at most a crass joke about a person who is being very crass herself in the transcript this topic is supposed to be all about! What Miyamura herself is saying is, in terms of sexually offensive content, far worse than my "well, I guess a woman who has literally done porn before would be less inhibited when making such jokes" sidenote. So I don't even see why a rough barker would be tonally out of place in this thread either. Read charitably, she's making reip jokes!

But then again, I have been away for years and I think Tank is onto something with that.

When I was previously an active poster on EGF back in 2013-2015 period the rulebook was basically same as now, but linguistic leeway given (apparently) much broader. For example, in another thread I was told to remove terms like Reifag or "waifufag" as homophobic and inappropriate. I did that, of course, because I didn't want the substantial issue to be overshadowed by such an insignificant issue. Which is what happened to this poor thread, RIP.

Anyhow, I wasn't intentionally using offensive language there either. Anime fandom at large was and is heavily colored by various channish expressions (it's frankly the norm, EGF is an outlier in this attitude that reminds me of Académie française), and it should be obvious that there's nothing homophobic intended by a portmanteau like waifufag. Now EGF has always (rightly) wanted to keep the English used conversational and not overtly "channish". So no greentexting or implying implications memespeak circa 2011 on EGF. But it wasn't a blanket ban at the time, and in fact terms like "Asukafag" or "Reifag" or "waifufag" were tolerated when I was posting here previously. Not everyone liked that kind of language, of course, but it was not construed as rule breaking either.

In addition to many regular users, current and ex-staffers used these words quite frequently when I was last posting here. For example, I just gave a quick look at forum archive and:





So yeah, if channish -fag suffix is now forbidden that is a new development since I've been gone. It's completely fine if that is the case. That's up to mods. But since there is no corresponding change in forum rules in 2020 in comparison to 2014 you can't really expect an old-timer like me to know such change has taken place.

If spicy quips about seiyuus are now similarly banned when they weren't before, that is also news to me.

So yes, sorry for the bother. But I'm just talking the way I always have talked on the weeb internet. There's been no harm meant by any of this.

[orcot]

Does anyone use private messages on this forum?