.

[zlink64]

Going back a little: you earnestly claiming that Eva's original dub voice acting is on par with Batman or Gargoyles leaves me to believe we're on different planets or something. I'm to believe that actors with years of experience doing a variety of work are no better than whoever Matt Greenfield could corral into the recording studio of his fledgling company? I don't know about you, but I can sure as hell hear the difference in experience. If Evangelion had been given to competent hands in the first place, it might have had a Ghibli dub sort of reputation instead of the "lol 90s anime dub" we got stuck with.

There a lot of scenes that touched me in eva emotionally and a lot of that had to do with voice acting. Batman never had any of that like at all let alone season one. Um we can both be from different planets...I'm fine with that lol.

[Bagheera]

whoah whoah slow down. What you are talking about I have not commented about at all. You are being misleading..I'm pretty sure unintentionally so it's okay. And you are confuse yourself about what it is I'm saying. Just slow it down. You are comparing Japanese viewer/ us viewers to sub watcher/dubb watchres. Two very different things. These aren't directly related.

Well, yes, they are, actually. People watching the Japanese dub, whether with subtitles or without, are hearing the nuance of the original performances, and that informs their impressions of the characters. People watching the English dub are hearing very different performances, and thus have very different impressions of the characters. And, not surprisingly, this is reflected in the fact that people who favor the subs have opinions largely aligning with the Japanese take on things, while people who favor the English dub don't. This doesn't mean the Japanese fans and English sub fans are in lockstep, because they aren't -- culture is what it is. But they're closer to being on the same page than either is with an English dub fan, because at least they're watching the same show!

All I'm saying is that you do not know how many people who have negative opinions of the characters( ex I hate Shinji) have watched the dub or if they are prominently DUb watchers.

I know the two correlate based on the reviews and commentary I've seen, since it's something I actually watch out for. And it really astounds me that you'd have the gall to go on about weak opinions when you've never even watched the subs!

[zlink64]

I know the two correlate based on the reviews and commentary I've seen, since it's something I actually watch out for. And it really astounds me that you'd have the gall to go on about weak opinions when you've never even watched the subs!

Dude I havent said anything direct about the sub like at all. This is why I'm saying you are confusing yourself about my position. Slow down.

Well, yes, they are, actually. People watching the Japanese dub, whether with subtitles or without, are hearing the nuance of the original performances, and that informs their impressions of the characters. People watching the English dub are hearing very different performances, and thus have very different impressions of the characters. And, not surprisingly, this is reflected in the fact that people who favor the subs have opinions largely aligning with the Japanese take on things, while people who favor the English dub don't. This doesn't mean the Japanese fans and English sub fans are in lockstep, because they aren't -- culture is what it is. But they're closer to being on the same page than either is with an English dub fan, because at least they're watching the same show!

Okay but that doesn't equate in anyway to you just assuming every hateful opinion a character stems from mostly dubs. Like you are just making an assumption.

[Bagheera]

Dude I havent said anything direct about the sub like at all.

That's rather the point. You aren't even equipped to have this conversation and yet you're being incredibly patronizing about it. Why don't you take your own advice, slow down, and pay attention to what people have said in response to your claims?

[zlink64]

That's rather the point. You aren't even equipped to have this conversation and yet you're being incredibly patronizing about it. Why don't you take your own advice, slow down, and pay attention to what people have said in response to your claims?

I don't I need to watch the sub to understand that you are making an assumption about dub and sub viewers. Am i crazy or this not make sense? I feel like you are grasping at straws just to undermine me.

[Sachi]

This is a silly thing to argue about. Make your points, agree to disagree, and let's let some others join in to share their opinions on the matter. Thank you.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Please try and avoid spoiling the show.

Ok I understand that this is subjective and has been asked a million times before, but I still can't come to a conclusion. So I've been wanting to start Evangelion for a while now, got into anime recently and NGE is heralded as one of the greatest anime ever. This serious is supposed to be psychological? I don't really mind the Evangelion dub, I've seen Episode 1 subbed then dubbed and the dub voices are pretty good, I prefer Misato's dub voice. Shinji's dub is alright although when he shouts or is nervous the voice actor sounds unprofessional and his voice cracks. Does the dub improve as the series goes on? Any translation errors or stuff they missed out in the dub? Will watching the dub reduce the "impact" of Evangelion? Also how is the dub for End of Evangelion and the rebuild movies?

I'd also like to ask how you're supposed to watch it. I see people say you watch episodes 1-24 then EoE, then optionally 25-26, and then the Rebuild movies. Should I follow this order or go 1-26 then EoE?

Not sure how this site feels about pi---y but the t-----t I got was [2D4U] and that comes with "Director's Cut" episodes. What exactly are these?

Hello, antinitrogen. I'm glad to hear that you're interested in watching Evangelion.

Watch the dub that sounds best to you. (The English or Japanese dub, because yes, they're both dubs.) If you don't like the performance in the English dub (because some of the background character voices are a bit sillier at first in that one), then watch the Japanese dub. If you can't understand Japanese, then simply watch the Japanese dub with English subtitles. If, for whatever reason, you cannot read the subtitles, then try to find a fan English dub/sub that suits you best. (ADV's Platinum Edition English subs are generally agreed upon here. Also, if you understand French, I hear that official language dub inspired much of how the official English dubbers handled the character of Rei. Unlike the official English dub, the official French dub might even still be in print, too!)

As for the order, it might be fun to watch the versions that originally aired on TV. (We short-hand them to "OA versions" around here.) Now, a lot of the available OA episodes still aren't exactly the same as the ones that aired originally in Japan, but the differences are slight and honestly the animation is better regardless. The Extended Video versions (short-handed to "DC," or "Director's Cuts" around here) have some extra scenes as well as the cleaned up animation. Only episodes 21 - 24 have different versions, so don't sweat it while watching the earlier episodes. If you want you can watch the OAs, and then go back and watch the DCs later. Some of the visuals in the DCs bear a strong resemblance to EoE, and the foreshadowing can be fun sometimes.

Watch Episodes 25 and 26 if you want. It's fun watching those before watching EoE simply because you get to piece together what you saw in the TV ending in EoE, but in totally different ways.

The fun factor in discussing these differences on this forum varies from time to time, but if you just accept it as all art then the seriousness of the discussion takes a more chill priority and you're back at having fun with it again.

Pick a "Best Girl" if you want, but don't overlook Maya Ibuki as a candidate in your search. I personally prefer to categorize by "Best Pilot/Scientist/Bad-Ass" and whatnot. Just as I find an arrangement of colors to be better than picking a favorite color, I also cannot pick a "Best Boy/Girl/Character," so I categorize by roles in the TV show instead in order to keep my "arrangement of colors," as it were. But if you find a character that you like more than the rest, then by all means pick that character as your favorite.

Welcome to the Apocalypse, antinitrogen. I hope you enjoy Eva as much as I do.

[Mr. Tines]

How about this;

That's also one of the lines discussed in this recent thread -- thread/18065/Mistranslations-in-Evangelion/ -- and is again one where the official subs are not a good reflection of the nuance of the original Japanese (and the most respected fan translation is perhaps too faithful to the form rather than the nuance of the line).

---

Interviews with the Japanese and American casts show significant differences in how they interpret the characters, which we can add to all the anecdotal evidence about viewers taking different readings of the characters from the different performances.

[pwhodges]

Which is a useful reminder that neither language dub is actually the original source material. Sure, the Japanese one is closer to it, no question, but performances are performances - and as I said in another discussion, different performances can each provide illumination of the underlying original. Just as in music (classical, especially) varying performances can all be appreciated for what they bring to the table - sometimes even providing alternative perspectives on each other - so having different translations and dubs can help with understanding of the whole.

We know perfectly well that there is no single truth about every aspect of Eva, so arguing as if there is such to be found gets a bit wearisome at times. Also, many of the details we obsess about here are not actually important to following what some people see as the raison d'être of the show. Does the mistranslation of Misato's explanation about Adam and Lilith actually have a substantial bearing on Shinji's reactions to the world he is thrown into and his subsequent examination of his relationships with others? Not much, I'd say.

Finally, analysis is all well and good (and I'll do as much of it as anyone else at times); but most people just watch the show. Once, in most cases, I imagine. The initial viewing is not about analysis or the finer points of detail, it's about getting the message across on the spot. And I say that either version - sub or dub - will do that just fine if you let it.

[robersora]

Which is a useful reminder that neither language dub is actually the original source material. Sure, the Japanese one is closer to it, no question, but performances are performances - and as I said in another discussion, different performances can each provide illumination of the underlying original. Just as in music (classical, especially) varying performances can all be appreciated for what they bring to the table - sometimes even providing alternative perspectives on each other - so having different translations and dubs can help with understanding of the whole.

But why would one want to to listen to an amateur rendition of a high school band filled with mistakes and mismatching tunes, when one can have the Praha Symphony Orchestra?

[pwhodges]

Not all amateur performances are like that; and the better ones really can produce their own illumination of the music.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

My only real issue with the English dub outside of anything that can't be described as "different folks, different strokes," is the delivery of this line right here. Nothing anyone can tell me would have me believe that this line reading isn't way off target from what the tone of the show was going for in Episode 1. I saw the Japanese dub first, and thought "Man, this show is a little bleaker than I was expecting." I saw that line delivered in the English dub and thought "Man, there's no way anyone at ADV knew what Eva was aiming for just yet."

[robersora]

^
That is hilariously edgy.

[antinitrogen]

.

[zlink64]

Well in my experience I try to avoid watching a sub of anything first only because I end up making up my own version of the characters since I don't speak Japanese so I fill in a lot of stuff myself. And then that can ruin a dub or just make it weird since your expectations are already set. Like i guess it safer to go from dub to sub if you are worried about ruining things imo.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Eva is quite hyped up and discussed everywhere, so I feel as if watching the dub might cheapen the experience due to mistranslations and lack of nuance in voice acting, but then again quite a few people seem to have seen the dub only and love it regardless. So do you think watching it dubbed casually would take away much from the experience? I'm planning on rewatching it in June so would watching dub now, sub later be a good idea? Would it be a disservice to NGE?

Watching Eva seriously is like studying the Bible. There are many different English translations of the Bible. For example, the New International Standard Bible is a thought-by-thought translation of the Bible, while the New American Standard Bible is more of a word-for-word translation of the Bible, and each translation can be used by the same person for different reasons. A casual or personal reading of the Bible might benefit more from the thought-by-thought translation, but seriously studying it might require more of a word-for-word translation.

The same thing applies for Evangelion. The English sub/dub from ADV is generally what's agreed upon in this forum, but others have pointed out some better translations of certain parts of the material. If you just want to watch it and see what everyone's talking about, then the ADV sub/dub is a great place to start. Later on if you want to dig deep and study the show carefully, asking around for better translations of certain scenes wouldn't hurt. There are some threads on this forum that point out the mistranslations of certain scenes and offer the correct translations, though I don't believe there are any fan subs made reflecting those differences in translation. I have a subtitle editing program, and I might use it to rip the ADV subs and include some of the more accurate word-for-word translations offered by the users of this forum, but that's a project for another time. (If anyone does want to try something like that, Aegisub is a great sub editor.)

I personally enjoy the Japanese dub way better than the English dub, with ADV's English subtitles. The Japanese cast has had the benefit of working closely with the original director, while the English dub suffers from the original director reacting and then correcting what was already recorded by the English team. Some of the silly line-readings weren't caught, however, hence the silly-sounding "EVERY SIGNLE MISSILE HIT THE TARGET" line reading in the English dub. And, as I said before, there are still some lines here or there that could stand to be more accurately translated, but the end product is still pretty solid and I feel that it's still a good place to start.

[gatotsu911]

Ghibli dub sort of reputation

PROTIP: Ghibli dubs are not actually all that incredible, they just have an aura of "respectability" because Disney throws celebrity screen actors you've heard of (as opposed to trained voice actors you haven't) into the booth to phone in the dialogue. Sometimes screen actors are good voice actors, sometimes not. Disney doesn't care.

Also to that one post likening Evangelion's Japanese voice track to the Prague Symphony Orchestra: LOL.

Interviews with the Japanese and American casts show significant differences in how they interpret the characters, which we can add to all the anecdotal evidence about viewers taking different readings of the characters from the different performances.

Remember that one time Yuko Miyamura said Kawoshin is OTP and Asuka should end up with Kaji? (Or that becoming friends with Tiffany Grant helped her rediscover Asuka?)

Btw, thank you all for your insight again, I have to admit there are convincing arguments on both sides so it's hard to choose. Am I being stubborn or too picky? Eva is quite hyped up and discussed everywhere, so I feel as if watching the dub might cheapen the experience due to mistranslations and lack of nuance in voice acting, but then again quite a few people seem to have seen the dub only and love it regardless. So do you think watching it dubbed casually would take away much from the experience? I'm planning on rewatching it in June so would watching dub now, sub later be a good idea? Would it be a disservice to NGE?

Make up your own mind. No one else can do it for you. (Pretty sure that's an actual line from the show.)

What I'm saying is, watch both in whatever order you please.

[Mr. Tines]

PROTIP: Ghibli dubs are not actually all that incredible

Their English theatrical dubs (as opposed to the American ones) often use English VAs, with authentic local accents, which makes watching a daytime ( = dubbed) showing acceptable. That was the most disappointing thing to me of the Princess Kaguya dub I saw in theatre, that it had American voices.

Remember that one time Yuko Miyamura said Kawoshin is OTP and Asuka should end up with Kaji?

That was the sort of thing I was thinking of, yes.

[robersora]

Also to that one post likening Evangelion's Japanese voice track to the Prague Symphony Orchestra: LOL.

I'm glad, I sweetened your day. But just to make myself clear, my comparison was less about the performance itself, but more about the level of professionalism.

[Reichu]

I'm not sure what the relevance of the voice actors' personal interpretations are. Their performance is what matters, and Anno has a leash on that.

PROTIP: Ghibli dubs are not actually all that incredible, they just have an aura of "respectability" (snip)

I don't necessarily disagree (most of them have indeed gotten worse the more times I've heard them), but like it or not that is the reputation they have. Together with Cowboy Bebop (the dub of which I haven't heard), the Ghibli dubs are almost always given the okay by both sides of the sub vs. dub debate. You see it again and again.