Jaeger vs Evas

[Xard]

You're talking as if limitations of Eva's positron technology have some bearing on gundems

[Restriktion]

Are Jaeger units equipped with a limited power source? Given that the berserk mode is just deliberately exploited as a plot device in both continuities, they could simply stall the Evangelion units (after disrupting power supply) until they run out of power, and then obliterate the lifeless unit. Just decapitating the unit should help in most cases. Units equipped with a S² Organ, or advanced models as seen in 3.0, without even mentioning the special states an Evangelion can enter, will however pose a serious threat.

Also, the A.T. field is shown to be breachable in numerous examples during both timelines. Many seem to link this with to the possible instant-penetration happening without visual indication, but there is as well a scene in End of Evangelion which shows the JSSDF severing the unlimbical cable of Unit-02 without any metaphysical intervention from the latter.

[Shinoyami65]

Are Jaeger units equipped with a limited power source? Given that the berserk mode is just deliberately exploited as a plot device in both continuities, they could simply stall the Evangelion units (after disrupting power supply) until they run out of power, and then obliterate the lifeless unit. Just decapitating the unit should help in most cases. Units equipped with a S² Organ, or advanced models as seen in 3.0, without even mentioning the special states an Evangelion can enter, will however pose a serious threat.

Also, the A.T. field is shown to be breachable in numerous examples during both timelines. Many seem to link this with to the possible instant-penetration happening without visual indication, but there is as well a scene in End of Evangelion which shows the JSSDF severing the unlimbical cable of Unit-02 without any metaphysical intervention from the latter.

Well it is suggested that the ATF has a limited range, as Eva-02's ATF is still operative at the time, and she uses it shortly afterwards to obliterate all the gun turrets that blew up the umbilical cord. Eva-02 itself is not harmed at all by the gun turrets, likely due to its ATF and armor plating (as Auka states). It seems the length of the umbilical cord prevents the Eva from shielding it with the ATF, hence why it often gets severed by Angels and the guns of the JSSDF, which don't do squat to Eva-02 itself.

Beserk mode is something of a plot device, but it would still give an Eva a significant advantage, particularly in the case of Eva-01 which doesn't require a power source when beserk. Eva-02 also exhibits this ability briefly in EoE.

But as you said, Evangelions with seemingly limitless power like the Mark.06 and Mark.09, or the rechargeable Eva-02' and Eva-08 would be a pretty serious threat.

The MP Evas would probably be able to kill any Jaeger in seconds, due to their unstoppable Spear replicas, ability to recover from severe damage such as being ripped in half of stabbed in the head, and the fact that they have unlimited power from their S^2 Engines.

[Restriktion]

Well it is suggested that the ATF has a limited range, as Eva-02's ATF is still operative at the time, and she uses it shortly afterwards to obliterate all the gun turrets that blew up the umbilical cord. Eva-02 itself is not harmed at all by the gun turrets, likely due to its ATF and armor plating (as Auka states). It seems the length of the umbilical cord prevents the Eva from shielding it with the ATF, hence why it often gets severed by Angels and the guns of the JSSDF, which don't do squat to Eva-02 itself.

Of course it is just an Evangelion-scale power supply device. But the A.T. Field at times is shown to be much more versatile, such as the probe-beam Arael fires in Episode 22. In opposition to the distance being the reason, it might be as well another occurence where the possibility of A.T. Field protection is simply not used. Asuka herself, even with her prodigious ability, maybe simply failed here.

Beserk mode is something of a plot device, but it would still give an Eva a significant advantage, particularly in the case of Eva-01 which doesn't require a power source when beserk. Eva-02 also exhibits this ability briefly in EoE.

It sure would. But when does that happen under realistic circumstances? The mechanic itself is just that ridiculously overused in the series/films, to keep a dark atmosphere and drive the plot forward. Only the protagonists godmachine exhibits the power to "use" that ability continously, Unit-00 loses control twice and Unit-02 exactly once.

The MP Evas would probably be able to kill any Jaeger in seconds, due to their unstoppable Spear replicas, ability to recover from severe damage such as being ripped in half of stabbed in the head, and the fact that they have unlimited power from their S^2 Engines.

The Jäger units appear to be entirely mechanical. The Longinus Spear replicas are inaccurate anyway, as it took nine(!) tries to finally strike the core, while the original ones seems to target the core automatically (Episode 22/2.0 after-climax). Although this may be the fault of SEELE's dummy system as well, or just the writers who tried to make the scene more dramatical and memorable. Also, due to being entirely mechanical, the Jäger could just pull the Spear out and target the enemy core with it, unless they strike the pilots or the Jäger units have neural feedback for mechanical parts.

[Shinoyami65]

The Jäger units appear to be entirely mechanical. The Longinus Spear replicas are inaccurate anyway, as it took nine(!) tries to finally strike the core, while the original ones seems to target the core automatically (Episode 22/2.0 after-climax). Although this may be the fault of SEELE's dummy system as well, or just the writers who tried to make the scene more dramatical and memorable. Also, due to being entirely mechanical, the Jäger could just pull the Spear out and target the enemy core with it, unless they strike the pilots or the Jäger units have neural feedback for mechanical parts.

Well, the Spears are still pretty sharp, they pierce right through Eva-02. So they might be able to penetrate the pilot's cockpit and kill them, thereby halting the Jaeger's movement, or at least damage the Jaeger enough to stop it moving.

Even in their normal "Heavy Spear" form they're pretty dangerous; we see Asuka use one to chop an MP Evas' leg off and slice another in half. So they might be useful against the Jaegers.

[Blue Monday]

Yaygurs.

Come on, you're better than this, man. Put a little effort into it or don't bother pressing submit. -NemZ

[Restriktion]

Well, the Spears are still pretty sharp, they pierce right through Eva-02. So they might be able to penetrate the pilot's cockpit and kill them, thereby halting the Jaeger's movement, or at least damage the Jaeger enough to stop it moving.

Even in their normal "Heavy Spear" form they're pretty dangerous; we see Asuka use one to chop an MP Evas' leg off and slice another in half. So they might be useful against the Jaegers.

If you read my previous entry in this thread closely, you will realise that i already acknowledged that the replica Spears of Longinus are possibly useful against the Jäger machines. I even gave a description of the exact same scenario (using Spears to kill the pilots directly), which you are now using as argument against me.

However, Asuka wielding them is another argument for the Jäger fraction, as mentioned above, they could even simply pull them out after taking a non-lethal hit. Well, unless the Jäger pilots expierience neural feedback through mechanical body (as stated above).

Anyway, the Jäger units are piloted by adult (and possibly trained) pilots. Does this qualify as argument?

[Shinoyami65]

Sorry, I missed that part of your post. My fault entirely

Well it is true the Jaeger pilots are more experienced. Although Asuka has more training, we don't know how she'd measure up against a more trained person.

The MP Evas and the Dummy Plug might catch a trained individual off-guard due to their sheer bestiality, but that same nature may also work against them.

[Restriktion]

The MP Evas and the Dummy Plug might catch a trained individual off-guard due to their sheer bestiality, but that same nature may also work against them.

Even an individual specifically trained to combat (metaphysical) kaiju?

Also, bestiality? The Mass Production Models mainly just stand there in a apathetic fashion, and allow their utter mutilation at the hands of Unit-02, then proceed to wait until the power runs out and then start to rip the lifeless unit apart after a short-lived attempt at a counterattack. Their initial behaviour doesn't appear that bestial to me. But continued discussion about the behaviour of the Mass Production Evangelion units doesn't belong here - we should take this to private messages or the appropriate thread.

[Jurrasic]

Well well! It looks like someone out there has gone against the popular opinion here!



Of course if this battle plays out in the same way as it did in the show and movie, it`s a loss for the Jaeger in the end. I doubt it even has a self destruct and even if it did, same result. Unit One would just have to tear it apart Bardiel-style. Eva walks away damaged to fuck, but victorious in the end.

[Tankred]

Well Evas do come pretty well equipped for hunting, with knives, rifles etc.

And the MP Evas could be considered a case of Evas using spears and teamwork to take down another Eva too mighty for one alone, followed by consuming the remains of their prey as food.

The joke flew over your head and collided with a 747.

[LairenyX]

Even an individual specifically trained to combat (metaphysical) kaiju?

Also, bestiality? The Mass Production Models mainly just stand there in a apathetic fashion, and allow their utter mutilation at the hands of Unit-02, then proceed to wait until the power runs out and then start to rip the lifeless unit apart after a short-lived attempt at a counterattack. Their initial behaviour doesn't appear that bestial to me. But continued discussion about the behaviour of the Mass Production Evangelion units doesn't belong here - we should take this to private messages or the appropriate thread.

Thanks for putting in a few pointer analysis from the other side, Jaeger, this let me keeps in mind the possible training of of the Jaeger pilots.

It's a good question how much damage a Jaeger can take before it stop functioning.

[Delryn]

So, I saw Pacific Rim.

First of all, using the AT Field is an unfair, and uninteresting comparison. The ATF is a plot device used to explain why only an Eva can fight an Angel. It's like a Gundam fan saying, well the Gundam would just produce minovsky particles and then they couldn't target the Gundam!

Second, and some people brought this up, the Jaeger pilots are trained, have years of experience, and have no mental disabilities or psychopathic problems whaatsoever. The crew of the Striker Eureka would not have an existential crisis in the middle of combat.

Third, the size of Eva's are ill-defined. In some cases they are 40 meters tall, in other episodes they are 80 meters. I consider this poor of the writers and animators to not keep a consistent height. If the Eva's were 80 meters tall (the same height as the Jaegers) then they'd have no problem tearing the Jaegers apart. If they are 40 meters, they would not have the mass to deal melee damage to the Jaegers.

Fourth, I think the Jaeger plasma caster would be able to take out an Eva (again, if we aren't talking about the all-powerful plot-powered ATF). The melee weapons are nothing special on either side.

Fifth, The Jaegers move at realistic speeds (like Big O), Eva's seem to break the sound barrier.

Sixth, Jaegers have built-in power supplies for undefined lengths of combat. If an Eva loses power it only has a short time before it powers down.

Personal conclusion: Jaegers wouldn't be able to hit the 40m Eva's, the Eva's wouldn't be able to damage the Jaeger. Kind of a boring fight. If the Eva's become 80m due to animator/plot inconsistencies, then the Eva's would win due to breakneck speeds.

[Clover]

If you lined the sword with lance particles, it could probably hold its own against Sachiel. I don't know if you would even need that, though. Wasn't there some point in the series where they broke an Angel's AT Field with sheer force instead of eroding it with an Eva's?

[EVAfacepalm]

You know, I posted my own version of this on Spacebattles a few days ago, but with the stipulation that AT Fields were disabled. The thing is, no matter how you look at it, no matter what Eva-verse tech you give Jaegers, the AT Field is an unbeatable advantage for Evas. However, when I posed the non-AT field version elsewhere, the consensus was that it would actually be pretty close between the two sides, but with an eventual victory to the Evangelions due to their speed.

If it's allowed, here's a link to my post now that that thread died, let's see what EvaGeeks thinks of my match-ups. My general idea was to match up the Jaeger and Evas based on what classic mecha archetype they fit.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/evangelions-vs-jaegers-at-fields-disabled.264496/

If links to other forums are against a rule not mentioned on the rules page, I'll delete that.

[Giji Shinka]

Yeah, the speed is what brings victory for the Eva unit. (Even without A.T fiildo)

[ElMariachi]

If you lined the sword with lance particles, it could probably hold its own against Sachiel. I don't know if you would even need that, though. Wasn't there some point in the series where they broke an Angel's AT Field with sheer force instead of eroding it with an Eva's?

Only once : with the Positron Canon against Ramiel, but this thing is so powerful and require such an insane amount of energy that it's only really useful against a static target, like Ramiel while it was drilling through the Geofront's defenses.


Anyway if we say that Evas are 80 meters high(and Rebuild seems to have kept that high consistent), I would say that even without the all powerful AT Field, the Evas wins thanks to their superior speed and agility. The Jaegers could have a better chance against rookie pilots like Shinji, but against highly trained ones like Asuka or Rei(if she isn't in the shitty EVA-00) they get eaten alive : in their hands the Evas becomes essentially giant kung fu practitioners!

The Jaeger's best chance would be to directly aim for the power cord and be on the defensive until the Evas empties their battery, if it's against Evas with an S2 Engine(Eva-01 post Zeruel, Harpies) then their chances of winning shrinks a lot, put them against the Rebuild version of the Evas with Beast Mode and they are fucked(Eva win by sheer speed and brutal force), and against the really weirds ones like Mark.09 the poor Jaeger don't stand any chance.

Oddly it could fare better against EVA-13, it wasn't shown to have really strange capabilities except the four arms(which could count as an extra strength, but enough to beat a Jeager on brute force?), at least until Awakened, and speaking of them, of course I completely exclude the pseudo-evolved Evangelions from the equation : EVA-01 against Zeruel, Mark.09 when it regrown its head or EVA-13 when it began all white, then that would be pure cheating to put them against a Jaeger!

[Delryn]

I think the differences in speed come from Pacific Rim trying to be more realistic (I mean, as realistic as 2000 ton mechs can be). Whereas Evangelion has stylistically fast movement. I call this unrealistic because the Eva's move like a 1.8m human does. For example, the Eva's fall faster than terminal velocity would allow. They don't really show that they have thousands of tons of weight behind their movement like Jaegers do.

[Bagheera]

I think the differences in speed come from Pacific Rim trying to be more realistic (I mean, as realistic as 2000 ton mechs can be). Whereas Evangelion has stylistically fast movement. I call this unrealistic because the Eva's move like a 1.8m human does. For example, the Eva's fall faster than terminal velocity would allow. They don't really show that they have thousands of tons of weight behind their movement like Jaegers do.

It's not stylistic, it's the product of the ATF letting them ignore the square-cubed law.

Leaving aside the ATF (which is not a cheat, since it's a fundamental aspect of the setting and the very premise upon which all of Eva tech and metaphysics is built -- if you don't like the ATF don't make the damn comparison to begin with) the question is still silly for one simple reason: Evas have ranged weapons. When your foe is faster than you and can shoot you the outcome isn't even a matter of speculation. Jaegers are simply outclassed on every conceivable level (that applies to experience too, btw; the Eva pilots may be kids but don't forget that most of those Jaeger pilots haven't sortied all that much).

[Delryn]

It's not stylistic, it's the product of the ATF letting them ignore the square-cubed law.

I don't see that being said anywhere.

Leaving aside the ATF (which is not a cheat, since it's a fundamental aspect of the setting and the very premise upon which all of Eva tech and metaphysics is built -- if you don't like the ATF don't make the damn comparison to begin with)

The ATF is the plot device that gives Eva's a reason to exist, as opposed to a massive gun. Also, chill out.

... the question is still silly for one simple reason: Evas have ranged weapons. When your foe is faster than you and can shoot you the outcome isn't even a matter of speculation.

Jaegers also have ranged weapons. The Coyote Tango has two massive cannons in the fassion of a GunTank from Gundam. The Striker Eureka has missile launchers. The Gipsy Danger has a plasma caster with an unknown range.

... Jaegers are simply outclassed on every conceivable level (that applies to experience too, btw; the Eva pilots may be kids but don't forget that most of those Jaeger pilots haven't sortied all that much).

The Jaeger pilots have years of military training and experience. The Crimson Typhoon had seven Kaiju kills. The Gipsy Danger had 5. The Jaeger Program had been going for five or six years.

I bet this will push your buttons: [url]http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/features/fight1.htm[/url]