Why do people like Asuka?

[Bagheera]

I would hope that the child would be more honest and up front with me, considering I am giving him/her more freedom and trust then a child like Asuka.

Um . . . that's not how kids work. They're nowhere near that simple, particularly when they're teenagers.

[TheFriskyIan]

Um . . . that's not how kids work. They're nowhere near that simple, particularly when they're teenagers.

I was. And many quiet ones that I have supervised were. When I do watch over kids, it doesn't matter the age. I will reward honesty with trust.

However it is usually the trouble makers that don't receive trust from me. But I have had instances where kids would come to me for problems, such as a plate falling and breaking, or accidentally dropping food I made for them. You underestimate kids and their behavior. I don't see all of them the same which is why I have different rules and standards for them, but from the look of your post, you're trying to categorize all kids into one category that just doesn't fit all of them.

[Ornette]

Let's try to stay on topic, again...

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I liked Asuka since seeing her in the opening titles because she has red hair, and I saw Anno handle red-heads with Nadia and thought it was very entertaining.

Then she finally showed up in Ep. 8 and was awesome and kicked butt.

Then she became one of the more detailed written character arcs of the whole show.

[Mr. Tines]

And with you saying that, I have to ask; did you too?

It's probably fair to say that actually I don't like Asuka, especially when she's acting the redhead stereotype; more a case of unconditionally loving her as one might a daughter, despite what she might have done. She just got under my skin that way; and re-awoke the inchoate gooey feelings of wanting to hold and protect that I had bouts of in early teens -- so the flip side only.

Looking for the strong dashing Princess etc. etc. was more a late teen thing.

[Lorkhan]

@TheFriskyIan: I am going under the assumption here that you see Asukas treatment of Shinji as completely antagonistic, more akin to a school bully. To that, I disagree, and say that its more like that of, well, a sibling. Well, I use sibling due to lack of a better term. They are by no means friends, and calling them acquaintances wouldn't be accurate, because, well, they live together, and I am under the impression that they are slightly closer then roommates. (Having the same job, same school, and going further with lead up to the bout with Israfel)

Maybe I'm just speaking with personal experience here, but with your brother/sister, certain walls come down, and they'd generally go after one another on a different level then one would normally dare go after with most other family members, and some more casual friends. Almost especially when the two in question are almost the same in a few regards. I always was sure to tell my brother when he fucked up, but hell, I've done the exact same things in some regards, and it frustrates me to hell that he can't seem to take a hint. When you're frustrated with someone (Grant it Asuka's are misplaced) there are times when one does take it out on someone else, and while thats not the right way to go about things, it happens more often then not. I guess my point here is that, its a question of how far she takes things, and when you live with someone and you believe (misplaced or not) that they're fucking up, there's a damned good chance most people will let ya know.

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

I'd say it's more of like how a early teenage boy might go about trying to get the attention of/ or get a girl to like them. Like pulling a girls hair and thinking it's funny and the likes. As Asuka can't even bring herself to think of Shinji as attractive or like him (because he doesn't meet her perceived idea of what a man should be; as has already been discussed), also because of Kaji, and other people's praise of him, she also seems him as her main rival and competition, next to Rei. For further explanation see here

[TheFriskyIan]

Maybe I'm just speaking with personal experience here, but with your brother/sister, certain walls come down, and they'd generally go after one another on a different level then one would normally dare go after with most other family members, and some more casual friends.

That is more of a personal experience. I do not get along at all with any of my family. They created a strain relationship with me so I couldn't see your argument from your point of view because the only connection I have with my family is bitterness.

I see where you think that my view of Asuka is antagonistic. Maybe you're more right than me on what I'm seeing in her. But the problem lies in the fact that through out the series she has behaved so negatively towards Shinji. I'm surprised it took Shinji so long to snap and call Asuka out on all the crap she put him through. If I was ever in a position where Asuka was a room mate I would have exploded on her much earlier if she treated me the same way. I just can not see how some one like her could act like that nearly all the time. I mean doesn't she ever need a break from being so mean?

[Love Not Given Lightly]

There's many different reasons people Asuka.

If you're a Shinji hater, it's nice to have at least one constant reminder to tell him that he's stupid. I'm not a Shinji hater, but this is nice. She's also more expressive than the other two main pilots, which is refreshing. And really, most of the time she's just bitchy. It's only in the last episodes of the show that we really get to see her actually depressed side, thanks to a childhood which I could (but would rather not) argue is a lot worse than Shinji's, or maybe even anyone else in the entire show. Seeing her epiphany in EoE (my favorite scene in the whole series), truly helps one understand what she went through and root for her newly found badassery completely. A lot of people also like her as simply a contrast to the quiet, mysterious Rei. Rei's easily my favorite character, but it's great to see the two opposites (right down to eye and hair color) interact with each other, just as a balance, both for entertainment and psychological analysis, or whatever particular reason people watch Evangelion. People always remember the elevator scene for its clear showcase of how quickly the budget was running out by that episode, but the interaction between those two in that one scene is unbelievably well executed. And if you still can't understand why people love her, try imagining the series without her. Who knows where it would've gone, but I bet if it kept focusing on the interaction between Rei and Shinji for the remainder of the show, few people would remember Evangelion as something as influential and groundbreaking as it is.

Plus she's fucking hot, I mean come on.

[Bagheera]

It's probably fair to say that actually I don't like Asuka, especially when she's acting the redhead stereotype; more a case of unconditionally loving her as one might a daughter, despite what she might have done. She just got under my skin that way; and re-awoke the inchoate gooey feelings of wanting to hold and protect that I had bouts of in early teens -- so the flip side only.

Though that's not the best way to approach a fictional character. With that in mind I enjoy her because she brings a dynamism to the show that it would otherwise lack. If she were a real person, though (oh so believable with this show's characters) I would feel exactly the same way.

I see where you think that my view of Asuka is antagonistic. Maybe you're more right than me on what I'm seeing in her. But the problem lies in the fact that through out the series she has behaved so negatively towards Shinji. I'm surprised it took Shinji so long to snap and call Asuka out on all the crap she put him through. If I was ever in a position where Asuka was a room mate I would have exploded on her much earlier if she treated me the same way. I just can not see how some one like her could act like that nearly all the time. I mean doesn't she ever need a break from being so mean?

What you need to understand here is that Asuka feels exactly the same way about Shinji, and she's every bit as right about it as you are. Everything he does annoys her -- he never offers an opinion, he never wants to do anything, he never socializes with her or Misato, he ignores her efforts to connect with him, he apologizes reflexively even when he didn't do anything wrong, etc. That sort of personality can be extremely aggravating, particularly when you filter it through Asuka's old-fashioned gender norms. If Shinji had exploded on her earlier (or even just stood up for himself) her behavior wouldn't have been nearly as bad (just as she would have been a lot nicer to Rei if the latter had at least pretended to like her). No one likes rejection, and that's how Shinji's behavior came across to her.

It's also worth remembering that Asuka wasn't mean all the time, or even particularly often. She was downright pleasant when she first arrived, and even moreso when Shinji finally got the dance routine right. And when he saved her life? Oh, man, she was really liking him then. But then he ignored her, tuned her out, failed to react at all when she teased him . . . you can't expect an immature girl to take that lying down. Unhealthy though it might be her pride is what it is, and it's not like she kept it a secret or anything.

(also, even in the late show she was still very nice to Hikari, reserving her ire for Shinji (who was beta as fuck and by that point could evoke her disgust just by breathing), Rei (who was infuriating on account of the whole doll issue) and Misato (her supposed guardian who was doing exactly jack and shit to help her when she needed it, and who spent her days at work, her nights at the bottom of a bottle, and the time in-between sleeping off both). And honestly, all three of these had it coming in spades. Misato started to pull things together toward the end, but by that point she was preoccupied with other things and it was too late for Asuka anyway.)

Mind you, none of this makes Asuka's behavior okay; it was still bloody intolerable no matter how you look at it. But she was not acting in a vacuum, and she was not by any means the only one at fault for the way things deteriorated -- everyone in that household was doing things a different flavor of wrong.

[TheFriskyIan]

Mind you, none of this makes Asuka's behavior okay; it was still bloody intolerable no matter how you look at it. But she was not acting in a vacuum, and she was not by any means the only one at fault for the way things deteriorated -- everyone in that household was doing things a different flavor of wrong.

So I guess the point in our whole argument is moot here. Everyone fucks over everyone eventually. Please tell me I'm wrong, it's quite interesting debating with someone on a completely different wavelength than me.

[Bagheera]

So I guess the point in our whole argument is moot here.

How is it moot? You claimed Asuka was an awful person, and you were wrong. She isn't. She's just a troubled teen in desperate need of a good parent. The main problem here is that, instead of saying "that's bad behavior, someone needs to straighten her out" you're saying "she's an evil little bitch with no redeeming qualities whatsoever." The one's a statement of fact, while the other's a judgement. And I'm so very, very tired of judgmental attitudes in general.

[Alaska Slim]

It's probably fair to say that actually I don't like Asuka, especially when she's acting the redhead stereotype; more a case of unconditionally loving her as one might a daughter, despite what she might have done. She just got under my skin that way; and re-awoke the inchoate gooey feelings of wanting to hold and protect that I had bouts of in early teens -- so the flip side only.

And is that because you identify with her? You see redemption, or rather, a possible unfolding to her character where she can become someone less "abrasive"?

Or is it merely out of pity?

Looking for the strong dashing Princess etc. etc. was more a late teen thing.

Same for myself. Pretty much the only high-fantasy series I ever read (and my basis for knowing how truly effed up Welsh folklore is), unless the Narnia series somehow counts in the that genre.

Incidentally, it's also why I favor this mech, and became familiar with the works of Jean Paul Sartre.

[TheFriskyIan]

How is it moot? You claimed Asuka was an awful person, and you were wrong. She isn't. She's just a troubled teen in desperate need of a good parent. The main problem here is that, instead of saying "that's bad behavior, someone needs to straighten her out" you're saying "she's an evil little bitch with no redeeming qualities whatsoever." The one's a statement of fact, while the other's a judgement. And I'm so very, very tired of judgmental attitudes in general.

I'm sorry Bagheera. But the shows over, there is nothing Soryu can do in my mind to redeem herself. I don't care what kind of crap she went through in her life, that is literally no excuse for her behavior. I am not going to look at what she does and shrug it off saying "Oh well I guess it's justified, I mean she had such a hard life as a kid." No I'm not doing that. In the slightly reworded words of Mumbo Jumbo, If you act like a Bitch, and sound like a Bitch, then guess what kid, you're really a Bitch.

[Bagheera]

I'm sorry Bagheera. But the shows over, there is nothing Soryu can do in my mind to redeem herself.

Yeah, that's the problem. You're still acting like she has to redeem herself when she has less blood on her hands than anyone else in the main cast. Call her what you will, but she's not the one who wrecked the world -- your "quiet ones" are the ones who did that. You might want to keep that in mind before you start tossing around labels.

[Mr. Tines]

And is that because you identify with her? You see redemption, or rather, a possible unfolding to her character where she can become someone less "abrasive"?

Or is it merely out of pity?

Sympathy is the word I'd use (or as the cool kids say these days "I know that feel, bro.") -- some of her demons are ones I know all too well myself. So an element of identification, for sure.

Some of it was also in how she seemed to be being handed the shit end of the stick at every turn. Things seemed to be getting set up, and then forgotten about -- her assuming the role she had been trained for in episode 11, and then it being not mentioned again -- which made it feel like she was being actively thwarted in her development at every turn. So when it came to a feel that prodded a particularly painful old scar of mine, I was suddenly all wanting to protect her from those slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and let her find a space in which she could pick herself up and make peace with herself.

Her abrasiveness stems from that hurting inside -- if that sting could be drawn, she would stop being the bear with a sore head. She'd probably still be a scarily intense young woman when something drew her interest.

[Alaska Slim]

Things seemed to be getting set up, and then forgotten about -- her assuming the role she had been trained for in episode 11, and then it being not mentioned again -- which made it feel like she was being actively thwarted in her development at every turn.

Thwarted? I'm not sure where else they could have brought it up. The "Miracle" battle didn't have much chance for leadership rather than instincts, and after that, they didn't fight again until episode 16. There, the implication was she could no longer "keep even" with Shinji, a stick poking at the bear of her own insecurities.

She is well-drilled, but I'm not certain I'd call her "disciplined".

I'm sorry Bagheera. But the shows over, there is nothing Soryu can do in my mind to redeem herself.

Wait, preachy judgmental ADULT says what?

This is a 14-year old girl, and you're acting as if she never had conflicting personality issues!

And what the hell has she done that's beyond redemption anyway, tease another 14-year old?

Oh noes.... I'm sorry, I-I, I think I've done that too, I'm ruined for life!

[TheFriskyIan]

Yeah, that's the problem. You're still acting like she has to redeem herself when she has less blood on her hands than anyone else in the main cast. Call her what you will, but she's not the one who wrecked the world -- your "quiet ones" are the ones who did that. You might want to keep that in mind before you start tossing around labels.

That doesn't make what she does any less bad. It's not a problem that I hate her because she's a Bitch. I'm not trying to compare her to others in "Who gave everyone the biggest middle finger Competition". But she sure had the biggest attitude. As far as I'm concerned, if she acts like a Bitch, I will treat her as Bitch.

[Bagheera]

I'm just gonna add +1 to Alaska's comment here and call this little subthread done. There's just nothing to be done when the opposition's so hell-bent on being irrational.

[TheFriskyIan]

I'm just gonna add +1 to Alaska's comment here and call this little subthread done. There's just nothing to be done when the opposition's so hell-bent on being irrational.

I'm not being irrational. I don't have to like Asuka to be rational. I gave you my reasons, you however are my opposition and fail to see them as reasonable arguments simply cause you are so hell bent on defending this character to the death. It started as a simple statement, "I preferred Shikinami over Soryu" and you are trying to blow it completely out of proportion.