Why do people like Asuka?

This is the place to start: Feel free to introduce yourself, have general conversations and casual discussions about all things Evangelion, including chit-chatty topics like "Sachiel is adorable" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?"

Moderator: Board Staff

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:25 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:It isn't until her psyche is broken down and analyzed in Episode 22 where, for me anyway, the sympathy returns. But it's not sympathy in a sense of, "Aw, poor girl, you're just hurt. I'll help you." In my mind, it even doesn't forgive anything she's done to Kaji, Shinji, and Misato. I'm sympathetic because it's a sad, sad state she's in, and I don't see her getting out of it anytime soon. It's that sense of hopelessness that tears me apart and effectively draws me to the tragedy.


It's really a shame that Misato's so distracted by Kaji's death and his quest for the truth by this point. Some effective parenting would have gone a long way toward helping Asuka IMO (though, even if she wasn't distracted, it's an open question as to whether or not Misato could even provide that). Asuka would be difficult to manage, granted, but she's a child -- it falls to adults to get through to them, not to children to raise themselves.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 55
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:00 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:In fairness, Reichu's correct in that she voices her criticisms of Asuka only rarely

My point in my post is that she seems to be under the impression that there is a lot of "fawning" and compared to that she expresses her hatred "rarely". If she indeed does it rarely, then others are also doing the "fawning" only rarely (if that can actually be called "fawning").
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 23063
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: 私の中いる自分の心
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:21 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:It's really a shame that Misato's so distracted by Kaji's death and his quest for the truth by this point. Some effective parenting would have gone a long way toward helping Asuka IMO


Since Asuka got to Japan, although Misato and Asuka were loosely on good terms, it was evident that for home-life Misato was putting all her time/effort into Shinji. Probably because Asuka's so fiercely independent and Misato already helped Asuka back in Germany with whatever, but still. It would have been nice to see Misato showing more care towards Rei and Asuka, whether at Nerv or with daily life. (One thing NME is doing good, at least with Misato and Asuka.)
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:51 pm

Regarding Misato, I can completely understand why she didn't do anything. She probably felt as helpless as anyone else at that point and knew that she couldn't do anything to help. Maybe if she had intervened a bit earlier, but you know what they say about hindsight... Life doesn't work that way.

View Original Postsymbv wrote:My point in my post is that she seems to be under the impression that there is a lot of "fawning" and compared to that she expresses her hatred "rarely".

"Fawning" is how I subjectively describe what I observe within the well-populated pro-Asuka sector of this forum. You're part of that culture, so maybe you don't see it that way. The subjectivity of experience and how individual thresholds differ also explains why you react so strongly to my anti-Asuka rants and protest my "rarely" disclaimer -- even though the last time I expressed my sentiments was around... last spring. (Unless memory is failing me, which it might be.)
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 55
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:14 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:"Fawning" is how I subjectively describe what I observe within the well-populated pro-Asuka sector of this forum. You're part of that culture, so maybe you don't see it that way. The subjectivity of experience and how individual thresholds differ also explains why you react so strongly to my anti-Asuka rants and protest my "rarely" disclaimer -- even though the last time I expressed my sentiments was around... last spring. (Unless memory is failing me, which it might be.)

Of course your hatred is also a subjective feeling of yours. I am just saying that in a thread that asks why people like Asuka, your type of subjectivity (and an intense one too) is more out of place.

Well, at least I remember you expressed your hatred of Asuka when we had the avatar row - that was after the last spring.
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:28 pm

View Original Postsymbv wrote:I am just saying that in a thread that asks why people like Asuka, your type of subjectivity (and an intense one too) is more out of place.

So is the tangent spawned by my ranting. Shall we move along?
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

symbv
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 55
Posts: 6513
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: used to be TOKYO
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby symbv » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:31 pm

Let's save this thread to people who want to talk about why he/she likes Asuka.
I never thought I would come back to Evangelion after EoE,
But I discovered Re-Take (or it found me?) and
now here I am.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asuka FAN FOREVER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

driftking18594
Nerv Scientist
Nerv Scientist
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sep 26, 2011
Location: WILLE Irish Outpost
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby driftking18594 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:45 pm

As a newer member, I can say that Asuka has my sympathy. She isn't the shallow bitch archetype that you see all too often on mediocre run-of-the-mill kids' TV shows.

Although she is not a bully, sometimes you may wonder why a bully is the way they are. It's the same with Asuka, as the Asuka she shows to the outside world hides her (for want of a better world) weak self-worth.

And, as another member has pointed out, the fact that she fights on until the bitter end is an admirable trait.

My alternate-reality-obsessed mind just wonders what she would be like if Second Impact never happened, and there were no EVAs?

Eric Blair
Alberto del Rio
Alberto del Rio
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Carrying you.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eric Blair » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:11 pm

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Everyone with Asuka as his avatar should post here at least once,

Personally, the reason why I like Asuka is because she is a very dynamic character, and out of all the other characters she embodies, like Shinji, the main themes in the cautionary tale against parental abandonement, sex, intimacy and Japanese superiority that is evangelion.
as.for the people who can't relate understand or empathize with her, its understandable; a very common theory for that is precisely that those persons see in Asuka (or any other similar character) the mental reproduction of their bully or torturer. As such, its hard to relate and humanize or empathize with said character. While a lot of people her have described Asuka more eloquently the only thing I would add is that I, like symbv, liked Asuka before her layers were shown or her fall of grace, simply because she seemed the more lively and active than Shinji or Rei. Also, I'm a sucker for cute agressive strong willed women.
Last edited by Eric Blair on Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In this time of Rebuild, I'm proud to be one of the few fans of the original NGE, and one of the last proud fans of Asuka Langley Soryu.
Avatar: A fighting boy meets girl on a one night stand, walking into the blue, ending day by day as they dance in a very merry Christmas, continuing on my own as a burning one man force while you come and make my day approaching in the nick of time and always, stand by me.

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 23063
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: 私の中いる自分の心
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:38 pm

View Original PostEric Blair wrote:Also, I'm a sucker for cute agressive strong willed women.


:asuka_miffed: What do you mean, aggressive?! Baka! :asuka_geh:
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:44 pm

On a side note: for unrelated reasons I watched Episode 8 again today, and I'm reminded of why I liked her initially: she's funny as hell, plucky, confident, dynamic, cute, and interesting. She takes chances, she improvises, she doesn't give up, and she doesn't get flustered when things don't go her way. Also, she's an awesome pilot. She's actually a really cool character during the action arc.

That said, back to the discussion:

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Since Asuka got to Japan, although Misato and Asuka were loosely on good terms, it was evident that for home-life Misato was putting all her time/effort into Shinji. Probably because Asuka's so fiercely independent and Misato already helped Asuka back in Germany with whatever, but still. It would have been nice to see Misato showing more care towards Rei and Asuka, whether at Nerv or with daily life. (One thing NME is doing good, at least with Misato and Asuka.)


Yes, total agreement. Misato's indifference toward Rei is flatly unconscionable. Leave aside basic human decency, as NERV's chief tactical officer she has a vested interest in ensuring her pilots are functioning at peak capacity. And yet, she knows next to nothing about Rei and her personal life, and just how she's doing in general.

I realize part (most?) of this is due to interference by Gendo and Ritsuko, but still.

View Original PostReichu wrote:Regarding Misato, I can completely understand why she didn't do anything. She probably felt as helpless as anyone else at that point and knew that she couldn't do anything to help. Maybe if she had intervened a bit earlier, but you know what they say about hindsight... Life doesn't work that way.


That's quite possibly true. It's a given that Misato is unskilled as a parent (shocker, that), and Asuka is a particularly hard case. That doesn't change her responsibilities, though, either personally or professionally -- if she's taken it upon herself to be the girl's guardian it's up to her to make it happen.

The main problem was that anyone who wasn't SFU at the time just didn't care about the fact that a child was disintegrating before them. They didn't care much about Shinji, either, and he was actually important to their plans. I've always said I didn't blame the Children for anything that happened in the show, and it's true -- they're just kids. It's the adults who are truly reprehensible.

View Original Postdriftking18594 wrote:My alternate-reality-obsessed mind just wonders what she would be like if Second Impact never happened, and there were no EVAs?


I've often wondered that as well. If her quip about having a college degree is true (and I remain dubious, given the various rigors involved and the fact that Asuka doesn't really fit the profile), and if her mother hadn't been destroyed as she was, I think Asuka might have turned out very differently. A scientist, perhaps, likely based in Japan (Kyoko only moved to Germany for Unit 02's final assembly and contact experiment, as I recall), and probably a lot more well-adjusted. I'd love to see her in such an environment.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 23063
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: 私の中いる自分の心
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:25 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:On a side note


That's pretty much why Asuka was my favorite character after my first viewing of NGE/EoE before I somehow gradually shifted over to Shinji. :) (I forget how/when. Although, all three children are interesting and likable despite their fuck-ups, AFAIC.)

I realize part (most?) of this is due to interference by Gendo and Ritsuko, but still.


Yeah, agreed. :( (Eva2 doesn't do much with this except for Misato's Best End where she shoots Gendo during EoE then tells Rei that Rei is free to go/live as she wishes....Before Rei protests then becomes GNR but doesn't do much of anything. Weird, I know. Need to translate for context sometime.)

That's quite possibly true. It's a given that Misato is unskilled as a parent (shocker, that), and Asuka is a particularly hard case. That doesn't change her responsibilities, though, either personally or professionally -- if she's taken it upon herself to be the girl's guardian it's up to her to make it happen.

I've always said I didn't blame the Children for anything that happened in the show, and it's true -- they're just kids. It's the adults who are truly reprehensible.


:nod:

I'd love to see her in such an environment.


Agreed. The closest there is to Asuka in AUs are her being Shinji's childhood friend ala Episode 26 AU or the Gakuen Datenroku AU. Fanfiction time, anyone? :smirk:
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 8601
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:31 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Agreed. The closest there is to Asuka in AUs are her being Shinji's childhood friend ala Episode 26 AU or the Gakuen Datenroku AU. Fanfiction time, anyone? :smirk:

The Rest of Evangelion, episode 18, Asuka's fantasy scene while she's shlicking in the shower. Granted, it's not a world where the Angels never existed, and granted, that's just one scene, but some day I could expand it to a full fic and alter those background details to fit the specification. Once... you know... the fic that it's already in is done. >_>
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

Xard
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 14236
Joined: Jan 03, 2008

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xard » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:21 pm

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Besides, Asuka is the first character that awakens the masochist in me. :gasp: I am more than happy to have my ass kicked by Asuka if that is ever possible. I envy Shinji for the suffering he was made to go through by Asuka. No wonder she is considered the mother of Tsundere characters -- I am sure countless anime fans (at least in Japan) discovered their inner masochist via their encounter with Asuka.


This was really funny :lol: :lol:

View Original PostBagheera wrote:They bend over backwards to justify her behavior because they realize it's the result of her being in horrible pain. When we see people in pain we want to help them; it's just a natural human response.


People go through worse and come out much nicer and less egoistical. Shinji too essentially suffers from similar problems and fears but his way of being is much more timid and he minds others more generally.

Asuka's background makes her behaviour and such understandable but using a shitty backstory as a justification is always a big no no.

I've always found Patti Smith's “Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand” to be one of the best lyrics to come out from popular music. Feeling and being in pain does not necessiate Asukalike behaviour (even if it makes likely and understandable). Were that the case the ethos of Buddhism would be very different thing from what it is

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Though I'll reiterate that, unless your name's Shinji Ikari, dealing with her at school or work doesn't appear to be all that difficult. Everyone at school seems to like her (oh wait, except for the stooges, who should probably be arrested for the stunts they've pulled anyway).


Asuka's only real friend is Hikari and even that was largerly a relationship of convinience for her (poor Hikari, though I think she developed real affection in there for a while before all went to hell). She looks upon boys with decided contempt (fi they're not Kaji-sama~) while girls mostly can't stand her, mostly due to jealousy if the ep 9 picture is anything to go by. In any case it's clear Asuka doesn't have friends other than Hikari and for a girl it's pretty telling sign. Nothing we see indicates she's close with any of the nameless classmates.

I know some make big deal about this re:Shikinami as if it was huge personality change but in her apparent disinterest in others she's just as Soryu was: she merely lacks the will to play the social pretend game. Deep down both were the same in this respect. Asuka kicking the nerds away in. 2.22 is at least comedic in a crappy anime comedy way...

...what she did to her poor date in ep 15 on the other hand had no comedy in it and that on its own pretty much keeps Asuka securedly in "egotistical bitch" camp who is generally only interested in what she can get from others rather than others on their own.

Which is okay because that's partly why she's so interesting. Asuka is full of fail and that's why she's so great.

View Original Postsymbv wrote:Actually I hardly see much fawning over Asuka in this forum, except threads like Hikari Lives.


having spend 4 years on this forum I can say it's absolutely undeniable fact Asuka gets the most fawning and throughoughly positive attention on this forum. Not even Rei can compete. Spamming Asuka KAWAII YO Asuka PERO PERO or some stuff like that just isn't very much in this forum's style but when opening appears it'll happen

View Original PostReichu wrote:That fundamental visceral repulsion remains. She's just a really unpleasant, egotistical person, and I probably can't get over it because I don't find anything about her compelling enough to distract me from that.


it would probably help if you were heterosexual male lol

if Asuka wasn't smoking hot I'd say not even fourth of the fanboys endlessly fawning over her in Asuka's regular /a/suka threads would've given her much of a chance to become likable

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:57 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:People go through worse and come out much nicer and less egoistical. Shinji too essentially suffers from similar problems and fears but his way of being is much more timid and he minds others more generally.


And who wound up blowing up the world again, hmmm?

Asuka's background makes her behaviour and such understandable but using a shitty backstory as a justification is always a big no no.


But again, there's not much to justify.

Asuka's only real friend is Hikari and even that was largerly a relationship of convinience for her (poor Hikari, though I think she developed real affection in there for a while before all went to hell). She looks upon boys with decided contempt (fi they're not Kaji-sama~) while girls mostly can't stand her, mostly due to jealousy if the ep 9 picture is anything to go by. In any case it's clear Asuka doesn't have friends other than Hikari and for a girl it's pretty telling sign. Nothing we see indicates she's close with any of the nameless classmates.


You're glossing over a lot here and assuming a bit, too. Her ire with boys seems to stem from the fact that the first three she encountered in Japan a) peeped on her while she was changing, and b) sold risque photos of her without her consent. Both are grounds for strong dislike. Having others ardently pursue her when she's clearly not interested probably doesn't help.

As for the girls . . . we don't know, really. She doesn't have any friends apart from Hikari, true, but I don't see any evidence the others despise her (there's that one single shot you mentioned, but don't forget all the others where she's happily chattering away with girls aplenty). Her popularity is clearly superficial, but hardly evidence the others "can't stand her."

...what she did to her poor date in ep 15 on the other hand had no comedy in it and that on its own pretty much keeps Asuka securedly in "egotistical bitch" camp who is generally only interested in what she can get from others rather than others on their own.


Ditching a boring date makes a woman an egotistical bitch? Come on now. If you pressure a girl into a date and can't even be bothered to make it interesting you deserve to be ditched. If it were me I'd be a bit nicer about it, but it's not like he was some sweet guy who screwed up the nerve to ask her himself -- instead he had Hikari force her into it. Pretty lame stunt if you ask me.

if Asuka wasn't smoking hot I'd say not even fourth of the fanboys endlessly fawning over her in Asuka's regular /a/suka threads would've given her much of a chance to become likable


Probably true, but don't forget that NGE is full of hot females. She's got more than hotness going for her.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Eric Blair
Alberto del Rio
Alberto del Rio
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Carrying you.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eric Blair » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:11 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Shinji too essentially suffers from similar problems and fears but his way of being is much more timid and he minds others more generally.

Yeah but lets take into account Shinji's afraid of any form of connection or being left behind, so he tries REALLY hard to make people like him, the exact opposite of Asuka; in girl terms, Shinji would be the clingy girl who calls you at every single hour with nothing to say simply because she's deathly afraid of losing you.

And believe me, between a bitch and a wallflower, I've seen the bitch win always IRL.

Asuka's only real friend is Hikari [...] while girls mostly can't stand her, mostly due to jealousy if the ep 9 picture is anything to go by. In any case it's clear Asuka doesn't have friends other than Hikari and [...] Nothing we see indicates she's close with any of the nameless classmates.

Yeah, but then again, we never see the pilots doing anything normal; while your statement seems true and is validated by your facts, the same can be purposed; Soryu is much more social (again, going by the pictures of ep. 9) but in the end, her competitive streak tends to isolate her from actually being able to let people in.

...what she did to her poor date in ep 15 on the other hand had no comedy in it and that on its own pretty much keeps Asuka securedly in "egotistical bitch" camp who is generally only interested in what she can get from others rather than others on their own.

Again, not to play devils advocate but Asuka did go out on that date as a favor for Hikari, and in the end the guy she was dating was such a bore she decided to dump him, bitchy? maybe... then again, we don't know just how boring that guy was... so I believe Asuka did it after trying (unsuccessfully) to engage him in some way and finding out to her dismay he was a boring as any other idiot she might find.

View Original PostReichu wrote:That fundamental visceral repulsion remains. She's just a really unpleasant, egotistical person, and I probably can't get over it because I don't find anything about her compelling enough to distract me from that.

I have a very interesting theory about all of this, which is basically what I call the Asuka principle; the people who hate Asuka-type characters; loud, rude, obnoxious, bitchy, etc. do so simply because they are able to do, and get away to a certain extent with a behavior pattern many people would like to be able to do; it's always interesting for me to see how many people who "hate" Asuka for how she is/behaves fundamentally exhibit the same behaviour issues as her, down to their abrasive personality, rudeness, and tendency to do as they please and, if found wrong, getting them to accept it is like pulling teeth.

Yes, she needs some decent parenting and psychological help... so she can get over herself. :devil:

Doesn't that particular statement applies to mostly everyone in Eva, and everyone in the forums too? :devil:

The "best" is an illusion clung to by those who can't tolerate the ambiguity of the real world.

Not quite, the best is simply the ability to do what others do in a more efficient and successful way, people who use the sentence you just used, Reichu dear, tend to be the sore losers who, try as they might, are always second best. :wink:

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I've often wondered that as well. If her quip about having a college degree is true [...] I think Asuka might have turned out very differently. A scientist, perhaps, likely based in Japan (Kyoko only moved to Germany for Unit 02's final assembly and contact experiment, as I recall), and probably a lot more well-adjusted.


For some reason, I think that Asuka wouldn't really be that "scientific"; the only reason why she graduated at an early age is to pander her ego and make people notice her; sure, she might be smart, she might even be able to dual-enroll on college and take some AP classes, but I doubt she'd persue somethign like that, especially with her genetic make up and the fact she is more well adjusted; I can see this happier Asuka working as a model/idol/spokeswoman or maybe even playing sports... more of an "action girl" than "science girl".
In this time of Rebuild, I'm proud to be one of the few fans of the original NGE, and one of the last proud fans of Asuka Langley Soryu.
Avatar: A fighting boy meets girl on a one night stand, walking into the blue, ending day by day as they dance in a very merry Christmas, continuing on my own as a burning one man force while you come and make my day approaching in the nick of time and always, stand by me.

Na7e
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 795
Joined: Dec 08, 2011
Location: New York
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Na7e » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:22 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:People go through worse and come out much nicer and less egoistical. Shinji too essentially suffers from similar problems and fears but his way of being is much more timid and he minds others more generally.


Yea. Those people normally have help, and a supportive group around them. Asuka had neither. Shinji, and third impact anyone?

View Original PostXard wrote:I've always found Patti Smith's “Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand” to be one of the best lyrics to come out from popular music. Feeling and being in pain does not necessiate Asukalike behaviour (even if it makes likely and understandable).


Once again. How can you expect to help someone if you aren't even over your own baggage. Her mothers attempted infanticide is not something easy to reconcile.

View Original PostXard wrote: ...what she did to her poor date in ep 15 on the other hand had no comedy in it and that on its own pretty much keeps Asuka securedly in "egotistical bitch" camp who is generally only interested in what she can get from others rather than others on their own.


A date she really didn't want to go on. Which she went to on Hikari's sake. Kodama must have been in high school. At least a sophmore, if the Horaki's popped out Hikari right after her. So yeah a male who could be a sophmore,junior, or senior going out with a 13 year old eighth grade would be rather pathetic.
Last edited by Na7e on Thu May 17, 2012 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Xard
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 14236
Joined: Jan 03, 2008

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xard » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:30 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:And who wound up blowing up the world again, hmmm?


I think it's pretty clear I was talking of the characters before the part where they lose it completely :lol:

View Original PostBagheera wrote:But again, there's not much to justify.


as in her being some sort of redhead teenage Hitler? Of course not.

That does not mean viewer should be endeared by her behaviour or not finding her likeable is somehow the viewer's fault as symbv seemed to imply in one of the earlier posts because "characters were made to be likable" on purpose (though I think this assertion is at odds with Anno's own comments on characters and what he had in mind with them as well as things said by other staff members like eg. Shinji's dialogue being tuned down to something even less heroic after Tsurumaki notes "Anno isn't much of a hero either").

It's entirely legit to find her personality and character off-putting, freudian excuses be damned, is what I'm saying. Smoothing over her every personality crank (and she has many as Eva cast is collection of fuck ups) with the iron of "her mama killing herself made her do it shoo ga nai" is not to my liking.

I'm not saying she should be hated or doesn't deserve empathy (she most certainly does and tons of it, I find most instances of "character hating" result of insensitivity from viewer's part anyway).


View Original PostBagheera wrote:You're glossing over a lot here and assuming a bit, too. Her ire with boys seems to stem from the fact that the first three she encountered in Japan a) peeped on her while she was changing, and b) sold risque photos of her without her consent. Both are grounds for strong dislike. Having others ardently pursue her when she's clearly not interested probably doesn't help.


Not really. She's in the same boys are icky mode I only want you kaji-samaa~ mode before she even arrives to Japan and she can't be so stupid to generalize what the three stooges do over all males (and since when has she known about picture selling anyway?). The way she treats the love letters she gets in ep 9 also show a very general thou-art-below-me contempt she, admittedly, holds for nearly all human beings.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:As for the girls . . . we don't know, really. She doesn't have any friends apart from Hikari, true, but I don't see any evidence the others despise her (there's that one single shot you mentioned, but don't forget all the others where she's happily chattering away with girls aplenty). Her popularity is clearly superficial, but hardly evidence the others "can't stand her."


I'm not saying it's in-your-face-dislike. It's displeasure hidden behind nice smiles and all as Asuka is present. I'm not saying they *hate* Asuka or that she has war with them, I'm just saying the obvious that she doesn't have particularly warm relationship with any of them beside Hikari and they're just classmates. The other girls, as far as Asuka goes, are mostly just indifferent but with jealousy mixed in. I wouldn't want to be in a room with them when Asuka is away: the discussion and rumourmongering can get mean quickly.

Were that not a case teenage girl like her in Japan would be MUCH more involved in girly afterschool activities with them. Again, the only time we're given clue to how other classmates perceive her is in ep 9 montage...which clearly shows that as far as the girls go they're all friendly with her when interacting directly but the moment she turns away she gets this huge bunch of girls going "ewww that gaijin bitch is taking all our boys"

There's not much to go by and I'm going by what we get. It's the contrary opinion that has nothing to back itself on.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Ditching a boring date makes a woman an egotistical bitch? Come on now. If you pressure a girl into a date and can't even be bothered to make it interesting you deserve to be ditched. If it were me I'd be a bit nicer about it, but it's not like he was some sweet guy who screwed up the nerve to ask her himself -- instead he had Hikari force her into it. Pretty lame stunt if you ask me.


asking a girl's friend for help like that is pretty common with teenagers and seemingly especially so in Japan, even today. He might just be shy too and I certainly didn't see any unusual degree of "pressuring" Asuka into the date.

It's also pretty clear Asuka had no intention of giving the guy a chance anyway so blaming the guy for "not making it interesting" is a bit lol.

I might've misinterprepted it originally but I always got the impression that she kind of sneaked off her date in the roller coaster line. Of course she might've done it so that he did saw her leave but it's still incredibly rude and nasty thing to do.

It's how she does it that matters. When the guy has been completely harmless who doesn't see at least the date through? But no, Asuka behaves like Asuka does with little regard to others feelings. Not surprising from aggressive teenager girl but it's still not something most girls I knew in that age would've done - and it certainly isn't acceptable behaviour in my eyes.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Probably true, but don't forget that NGE is full of hot females. She's got more than hotness going for her.


Of course. I'm merely saying that if Asuka didn't look like she did many just wouldn't have given her the chance she got. As Allemann said here recently hot women are difficult to seriously hate :lol:

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 8601
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:50 pm

View Original PostEric Blair wrote:Not quite, the best is simply the ability to do what others do in a more efficient and successful way, people who use the sentence you just used, Reichu dear, tend to be the sore losers who, try as they might, are always second best. :wink:

I've noticed that people who are widely acknowledged as the best in their field actually tend to be very humble about it all.
Last edited by Monk Ed on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

Eric Blair
Alberto del Rio
Alberto del Rio
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Carrying you.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eric Blair » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:57 pm

View Original PostXard wrote: There's not much to go by and I'm going by what we get. It's the contrary opinion that has nothing to back itself on.

Again, there is no real open suggestion Asuka has no more friends than Hikari, which would put Hikari in the "close friends" circle; absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence and all that.

asking a girl's friend for help like that is pretty common with teenagers and seemingly especially so in Japan, even today. He might just be shy too and I certainly didn't see any unusual degree of "pressuring" Asuka into the date.

That doesn't make the guy any less boring, it actually adds a +1 to his pathetic-ness, if you ask me; if you don't have the balls to ask a girl out yourself and instead weasel your way in by asking a friend to set you up, the girl is going to be expecting at the very least a reasonably good time.

It's also pretty clear Asuka had no intention of giving the guy a chance anyway so blaming the guy for "not making it interesting" is a bit lol.

And yet, she still honored Hikari's request and showed up.

When the guy has been completely harmless who doesn't see at least the date through?

You obviously haven't dated a lot to ask this sort of rhetorical question; the short answer is "depends on the girl" however, there are a lot of common instances when the date is a lemon and the girl has to rely on any sort of trick to leave the premises quickly because for a minute her date just bored her to death.

But no, Asuka behaves like Asuka does with little regard to others feelings. Not surprising from aggressive teenager girl but it's still not something most girls I knew in that age would've done - and it certainly isn't acceptable behaviour in my eyes.

But it's very human and very common, I mean, that sort of behavior *IS* the basis of trolling and such on the internet, "The other person is taking this too seriously? Who cares how they feel? I just want to have lulz."

Of course. I'm merely saying that if Asuka didn't look like she did many just wouldn't have given her the chance she got. As Allemann said here recently hot women are difficult to seriously hate :lol:

Which is the reason why every single "bitch" or "tsundere" has a huge following, like Naru, Haruhi, Kirino, Ruri, etc.

EDIT:
View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:I've noticed that people who are widely acknowledged as the best in their field actually tend to be very humble about it all.

I say it depends on the person itself; those who are confident don't need positive reinforcement; those who arent; use any little opportunity at their disposal to get an ego boost; whether it's posturing, hubris, or humbleness it doesn't take away the fact that you are the best. If eva was the real world and not a world reigned by Deus Ex Machina, then one should assume Asuka is the best simply by how much time she has invested in training as the final outcome of her synch level compared against others; Shinji might be a natural in unit 01, but again, Deus Ex.
Last edited by Eric Blair on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In this time of Rebuild, I'm proud to be one of the few fans of the original NGE, and one of the last proud fans of Asuka Langley Soryu.
Avatar: A fighting boy meets girl on a one night stand, walking into the blue, ending day by day as they dance in a very merry Christmas, continuing on my own as a burning one man force while you come and make my day approaching in the nick of time and always, stand by me.


Return to “Evangelion General and Chit-Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests