Shinji's rejection of Misatos "sexual" invitation

[Shin-seiki]

In addition, I have to ask, where does the commentary thing about the sexual advances come from in the first place?

The NewType Filmbook of ep23 'Checkpoint' for this scene says (sorry, don't have the exact quote handy) something like "it seems that Misato was offering her body to Shinji here". The "It seems" part can be safely disregarded, since that's just typical Japanese avoidance of making bold and direct statements (which is pervasive in all the extra-textual, Gainax-sanctioned sources). My own policy is to assume, as a starting point, that the extra-textual sources know what they're talking about, unless it's plainly contradicted by what is actually said and/or shown in the series/movies. Since the notion that Misato is coming on to Shinji is a reasonable interpretation of what's going on here (especially in light of the ep02 "irony bomb", as well as how the scene is referenced in Misato's Complementation in #25), and the Newtype note says that that's what is going on here, I think one can assert with confidence that Misato is, in fact, coming on to Shinji in this scene.

[Cody MacArthur Fett]

"Is he afraid of women?" in my opinion practically confirms that Misato's aims were rather sexual. The statement doesn't make much sense otherwise

Actually, gynophobia isn't all that unheard of, and considering how all the women in Shinji's life (the women who he looks up to) have let him down at this point, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that Misato's just realizing what a truly messed up kid Shinji is. Plus, considering the way he flinches away from Rei and Misato but has no problems spending time with Kaworu, I think it's safe to think that, yes, at that point in the series Shinji was gynophobic.

The NewType Filmbook of ep23 'Checkpoint' for this scene says (sorry, don't have the exact quote handy) something like "it seems that Misato was offering her body to Shinji here". The "It seems" part can be safely disregarded, since that's just typical Japanese avoidance of making bold and direct statements (which is pervasive in all the extra-textual, Gainax-sanctioned sources). My own policy is to assume, as a starting point, that the extra-textual sources know what they're talking about, unless it's plainly contradicted by what is actually said and/or shown in the series/movies. Since the notion that Misato is coming on to Shinji is a reasonable interpretation of what's going on here (especially in light of the ep02 "irony bomb", as well as how the scene is referenced in Misato's Complementation in #25), and the Newtype note says that that's what is going on here, I think one can assert with confidence that Misato is, in fact, coming on to Shinji in this scene.

I see . . . Yeah, still not buying it. If this were any other series I might consider it noteworthy, but this is Evangelion, a show where the possible interpretations of characters are just as varied as the people watching or making it. I just can not see Misato making a sexual advance on Shinji, just as surely as Anno could not see how people could like Rei.

[COACH]

You're talking about the same woman that later makes out with him in the movie.

[Xard]

Actually, gynophobia isn't all that unheard of, and considering how all the women in Shinji's life (the women who he looks up to) have let him down at this point, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that Misato's just realizing what a truly messed up kid Shinji is. Plus, considering the way he flinches away from Rei and Misato but has no problems spending time with Kaworu, I think it's safe to think that, yes, at that point in the series Shinji was gynophobic.

"Fear of women" usually has rather sexual connotation and try to remember what the series we're watching is. Shinji is one helluva package of sexual neurosises

It's even linked to the whole "sidedish" deal in EoE

I just can not see Misato making a sexual advance on Shinji, just as surely as Anno could not see how people could like Rei.

In other words you can't accept no matter we say. Okay then.

We're talking about woman who uses sex as escape and who also comes onto him in EoE. REALLY? Is it REALLY so unconceivable?

(and where's Anno quote to the extent he can't understand why people would like Rei?)

[Bagheera]

We're talking about woman who uses sex as escape

Not disagreeing with the general point, but in defense of Misato we have never actually seen her do this. To our knowledge the only man she's ever bedded was Kaji, and he spent most of the series talking her into it.

She, for whatever reason, thinks of herself as a slutty individual, but she's never proven it. I think this all stems from her relationship with Kaji; she used him in various ways (in her own mind, at least), and that branded her for life even if she never even came close to doing those things with anyone else. Once a slut, always a slut. That's how her neuroses work, facts be damned.

[NemZ]

While I can readily except that sex was a highly likely possible result of putting these two broken-souled perverts together like that, I still don't accept that Misato was explicitly going to Shinji with such an offer. Rather I continue to think she was thinking just of being there for him, offering a hug and such... though subconsciously her intentions are not so innocent, as both EoTV and EoE make clear.

[Kendrix]

I think it's more like Misato FEARS that he interpreted it that way (Her view of the world is tinted by her own viewpoint - she thinks of herself as an using slut, but anyone with eyes can tell that she DID love Kaji. It's her insecurities.) - Everyone seems to take it as a given that she was aiming for fullblown sex.
I had the impression that she just wanted to hold his hand or hug him. I always interpreted the This in"This is all I can do for you" as "being at his side" or "trying to comfort him."

Misato has, however, always demonstrated the ability to pull herself together even if she is as depressed as the others, she kept trying to save the world until the very end.

And as for Shinji rejecting her - Misato conludes that, in the end, Shinji simply wants to be alone ("Is he scared because Im a woman? No, he wouldn't let anyone else near him either.") and that SHE is the one longing for company after Kaji died.
PPl tend to foget that this scene takes place after Rei DIED. Shinji's most ccommon reaction to bad experiences it to confine himself to his room (as seen in eps 21 and 4), he's still in the "schock" stage of grief and doesn't seem to be in the mood of doing ANYTHING...

Who MADE these commentaries, just out of curiosity?

[Xard]

She, for whatever reason, thinks of herself as a slutty individual, but she's never proven it. I think this all stems from her relationship with Kaji; she used him in various ways (in her own mind, at least), and that branded her for life even if she never even came close to doing those things with anyone else. Once a slut, always a slut. That's how her neuroses work, facts be damned.

She was building cock towers as a kid.

Dirty, dirty slut since birth

While I can readily except that sex was a highly likely possible result of putting these two broken-souled perverts together like that, I still don't accept that Misato was explicitly going to Shinji with such an offer. Rather I continue to think she was thinking just of being there for him, offering a hug and such... though subconsciously her intentions are not so innocent, as both EoTV and EoE make clear.

Well, she did explicitly offer him just that in EoE (of course it's impossible to say if she even considered possibility of keeping her word or not)

[Kendrix]

Well, she did explicitly offer him just that in EoE (of course it's impossible to say if she even considered possibility of keeping her word or not)

The towers are either you reading too much into it or something electra complex related, I think...

And about the EoE thing: She knew very well that she was dying and Shinji was the only Person who could save the world (and fulfill Misato's dreams she had ben projecting into him - She sees him as her Mini-Me and doesn't want him to fail like she did) and wasnt budging an inch.

[Azathoth]

The tower thing is in the script, actually. I don't know that anyone would ever have made the connection without that.

[Bagheera]

She was building cock towers as a kid.

She...wait, what? I'm missing the reference.

[Xard]

The towers are either you reading too much into it or something electra complex related, I think...

Nah, they just point out the obvious about her slutty, sultry nature


Bagheera, watch ep 25 again. You can see Misato's love for phallos goes back a long, long time

[Kendrix]

She...wait, what? I'm missing the reference.

I think Xard refers to the tower of bricks seen with the traumatized young Misato in ep 21, and later in ep 25 when she says "But I don't want to become like mommy".

[Xard]

and later in ep 25 when she says "But I don't want to become like mommy".

This one in particular (I don't remember how the blocks were arranged in ep 21)...hmm, looks like sluttyness run in the family blood.

[toe mash]

hmm, looks like sluttyness run in the family blood.

[Kendrix]

This one in particular (I don't remember how the blocks were arranged in ep 21)...hmm, looks like sluttyness run in the family blood.

How so?

[Bagheera]

This one in particular (I don't remember how the blocks were arranged in ep 21)...hmm, looks like sluttyness run in the family blood.

...that's it?

Seriously, this suggests serious father issues to me, not anything having anything to do with any Katsuragi's sexual proclivities. Besides, what do we even know about Misato's mother? Was she ever even mentioned in the series apart from this bit?

[Oz]

Someone's sarcasm detector is not working, it seems.

[Xard]

...that's it?

Well what did you expect? I said she was building cock towers as a kid. Episode 25 features said phallic block tower :P

Seriously, this suggests serious father issues to me, not anything having anything to do with any Katsuragi's sexual proclivities. Besides, what do we even know about Misato's mother? Was she ever even mentioned in the series apart from this bit?

How so?

Note the contrasting of deep symbolic visuals and the audio track - "I don't want to become like mommy". This proves that Misato's mother was very slutty individual and Misato doesn't want to grow up into such a woman.

Ahh, how ironic... There's no escaping from the power of genetics

[Bagheera]

Someone's sarcasm detector is not working, it seems.

Oh, I get where he's going and all. I'm just playing it straight since Misato does have a (IMO completely undeserved) slutty rep.