NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:35 pm

[Repost from normal NTE discussion board because potential spoilers]

Sauce for the scrapped story, organized by episode: https://tinyurl.com/y3sldl59
[It was posted by EvaMonkey himself]

So going over the ^ above mentioned link ^ while trying to determine exactly what may have happened in the episode that had to be scrapped due to similarities to Aum Shinrikyo's [now Aleph's] 1995 subway attack, I discovered other similarities.

"Episode 19: A man's battle: Asuka is heavily wounded protecting Shinji" [NGE: Zeruel, NTE: The Tenth. Just replace Asuka with Rei.]

"Episode 24: The promised time, now: Rei is defeated. ... The most powerful, 12th Angel awakens, at last, and descends to Earth from the Moon. ... Eva unit-06 is erased from the surface of the Earth. Humanity learns futility against the Angel's absolute power. ... A human drama of hopelessness." [Late in the story, heavy parallels to the post credits sequence of 2.0 and the third act of 3.0. Rei gets vored by The Tenth. NTE's Twelfth Angel is sealed in Unit 06 [Mk.06 once made autonomous] which was assembled on and came down from, Earth's moon. Mk.06 is decapitated and very likely entirely destroyed in 3.0. Asuka can't do shit to Mk.09, and Mari can only "beat" Unit 13 Awakened by destroying Unit 08's arms to eject Shinji's entry plug from the outside. Sounds pretty damn futile and hopeless to me.]

"Episode 25: Aluka, the promised land: The laboratory seeks the ancient ruin, and key to everything: "Aluka." The UN decides to abandon the Human Completion Program and focus on the destruction of the 12th Angel. Shinji's father opposes the idea. Shinji and the others stay in the laboratory for Rei. A human drama of people's conflict over differing objectives.
Final Episode: The only way: The ending. The laboratory's destruction and completion to all the secrets and dramas. Finale." [Other than "Aluka" being translated as Arka or Arqa in more recent analysis, no notes, but important for my predictions]

While most of beta NGE is a separate thing, the last 6 episodes bear some striking resemblance to NTE, plus Anno has stated that he wants NTE to be what NGE was supposed to be but without time, budget, or TV censorship restrictions, and it seems like he's already taken inspiration from beta NGE episode 24. Hell, it's possible we could use this to theorize even more about what could happen in 3.0+1.0 [I know it's only 2 weeks away I'm an impatient bitch]

So here's my thoughts: WILLE is obviously trying to restore Earth using their L-Barrier repelling devices, while NERV is sending their new Mass Production EVAs to stop them. At the same time, NERV seems closer to their goal of Human Instrumentality, and plan to use the Key of Nebuchadnezzar to do it Gendo's way, now that SEELE is fuggin ded. If the Arqa similarities are true, it would seem the Key of Nebuchadnezzar can only be used in a specific ancient location, and finding that is NERV's current goal now that the Angels and SEELE are out of the way. If Gendo gets to "Arqa" and uses the Key, he gets control over Final Impact and Instrumentality, so WILLE needs to prioritize stopping him, over restoring Earth. If the "human drama bit" is thrown in, we'll see Shinji disagreeing with WILLE and that it's more important to fix Earth first, with his reasoning being that it took Gendo 14 years to kill three Angels [Shinji saying "three Angels" would likely be what triggers the reveal that WUNDER is the weaponized Eleventh, if this theory is never confirmed then it's safe to say that the Eleventh was killed off-screen between movies, though hopefully that will be outright stated in an exposition lore dump so general audiences can understand what's happening without having to study the shit out of these movies like we have lol]

Anyways, again if I'm missing something and being an idiot please call me out.
Last edited by AdamMalkovitch on Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby Pluto » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:35 am

Honestly, I think the original outline of Eva is probably a good guide and an indicator of how it will end.
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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:48 am

View Original PostAdamMalkovitch wrote:[Repost from normal NTE discussion board because potential spoilers]

Sauce for the scrapped story, organized by episode: https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/com ... n_genesis/
[It was posted by EvaMonkey himself, I think that validates it in and of itself]



Unavailable.

But yeah, it's pretty interesting that NTE's continuity could be what they discarded before, like a big WHAT IF? It wouldn't be the first time, there are a lot of comic adaptations from scrapped screenplays.

I have my doubts about censorship : NTE is way more oriented to all audiences than NGE. Not an inch of sex in three movies....I don't say it's wrong, because this is a more action oriented continuity, leaving aside introspection, psychology and relationships.
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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:08 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Not an inch of sex in three movies.

I think you might be forgetting some things. Like Rei being naked constantly, the focus on Mari's relatively large breasts, the closeups of Asuka's butt and crotch, plus all the fanservice scenes that were kept from the original. I don't really understand your argument here. Rebuild has more action, but that doesn't mean it's somehow a diluted inferior version created to please audiences.

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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:24 am

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote:
View Original PostJäeger#906351 wrote:Not an inch of sex in three movies.

I think you might be forgetting some things. Like Rei being naked constantly, the focus on Mari's relatively large breasts, the closeups of Asuka's butt and crotch, plus all the fanservice scenes that were kept from the original. I don't really understand your argument here. Rebuild has more action, but that doesn't mean it's somehow a diluted inferior version created to please audiences.


No, I'm not forgetting anything.

Sex, sexual relationships, desire and the way they condition human relationships are not the same as nudes or fanservice, which are the teenage idea of "sex". And they are not present in NTE, it's not one of its topics. Of course, I'm not saying it needs to : it's a different continuity, with a different tone and oriented to larger audiences : It is its own product.

Don't mistake showing boobs with "mature". Or violence. That way of thinking brings me back nightmares from the early 90s and the comic book industry.
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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:41 am

Okay, sorry. Misunderstood what you meant. Some people do just correlate fanservice with sex when it comes to the content of fictional works.

But even then, the references to sex in the original show weren’t really necessary for the plot. When trimming down a TV series into 4 movies, while introducing a new conflict halfway through, some sacrifices must be made. It doesn’t mean that these movies are a “dumbed down version for mass audiences” or whatever the haters like to say.

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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:16 pm

View Original PostBusterMachine4 wrote: It doesn’t mean that these movies are a “dumbed down version for mass audiences” or whatever the haters like to say.


I don't know if they are "dumbed down versión", but a different tone, yes.

And un NGE sex is very present, even in a symbolic way.

My god, EOE breaths sex.
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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby Zusuchan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:50 pm

I deleted the original topic, since the discussion is already continued here anyway and there was not anything truly interesting there.

On-topic, I think there's some inspiration taken from the original plans for Eva, but I doubt the original scrapped plot can really be used extensively in order to get an accurate prediction for Shin.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of sexual references in NTE, I might post some later when I have more time.

Edit 2: Of course, there's no actual sex and you can argue how much NTE is about sexual relationships compared to NTE, but it's not like NGE and EoE had explicit sex besides from that one moment in ep. 21 either and while NTE does not perhaps have sexual relationships as a theme, sex does seem to be one still, so...

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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby Blockio » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:10 pm

Jäeger... are you for real

the entire fight against the 10th angel is oozing with sexual imagery. Hell, the entirety of Q does, and there's no shortage of it in Ha, either.
I can see why Gendo hired Misato to do the actual commanding. He tried it once and did an appalling job. ~ AWinters
Your point of view is horny, and biased. ~ glitz2hard
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:20 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Jäeger... are you for real

the entire fight against the 10th angel is oozing with sexual imagery. Hell, the entirety of Q does, and there's no shortage of it in Ha, either.

Yeah, Anno loves his pseudo-Freudian sex symbolism, and it's everywhere in the Rebuilds just as much as it is in the original show. Just because there's no explicit, on-screen sex (which was never really important to the original anyways) doesn't mean there's less sexuality. And even if there is less sexuality, that doesn't automatically make it worse. Assuming that sex automatically makes a show smarter or better is a juvenile mentality.

This conversation is getting really off-topic though.

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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:03 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Jäeger... are you for real

the entire fight against the 10th angel is oozing with sexual imagery. Hell, the entirety of Q does, and there's no shortage of it in Ha, either.


As I've said, that's not the point, I wasn't talking about imagery, but the importance of sex in relationships, the way we see the others or personal growth. It's not about how much flesh you show on screen or "oh my god, a pseudo penis made of light is penetrating a monster with boobs". I'm almost 40 years old, the times when I thought Urotsukidoji was "adult stuff" are happily forgotten.

And remember, I'm not saying that the change is for the worst, just.... different. Each continuity is a product of its own zeitgeist and target.
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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:35 pm

View Original PostJäeger wrote:As I've said, that's not the point, I wasn't talking about imagery, but the importance of sex in relationships, the way we see the others or personal growth. It's not about how much flesh you show on screen or "oh my god, a pseudo penis made of light is penetrating a monster with boobs". I'm almost 40 years old, the times when I thought Urotsukidoji was "adult stuff" are happily forgotten.

And remember, I'm not saying that the change is for the worst, just.... different. Each continuity is a product of its own zeitgeist and target.

I think we were just confused because you used EoE as an example of something that "breaths sex," and that movie had a lot of the sexual imagery that you say isn't important. Lilith spawning vaginas everywhere, the hills in the playground sequence designed to look like breasts, Rei mounting Shinji in the LCL sea, stuff like that. The only real sex scene I remember from that movie was the brief bit of Shinji watching Misato and Kaji having sex. Everything else was symbolism and imagery, the same stuff you're now dismissing in the Rebuilds. The Rebuilds also "breath sex" if you care to look.

And I would appreciate it if you didn't insult our maturity, or compare us to people who watch tentacle hentai. And I think I would buy the "I don't think the Rebuilds are worse" argument more if your first post after your hiatus wasn't about how the Rebuilds are a bastardized product that dumbs down the franchise to sell toys. But since that's basically what you said previously, I think there's some level of distaste going on here.

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Re: NTE's similarities to NGE's original scrapped plot, using it to predict 3.0+1.0

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:48 pm

View Original PostJäeger wrote:
View Original PostAdamMalkovitch#906316 wrote:[Repost from normal NTE discussion board because potential spoilers]

Sauce for the scrapped story, organized by episode: https://www.reddit.com/r/evangelion/com ... n_genesis/
[It was posted by EvaMonkey himself, I think that validates it in and of itself]



Unavailable.


Fixed :D
Nothing more aggravating than going through old forum posts on here and seeing 90% of the links are dead and the images are unavailable, I feel you.

View Original PostZusuchan wrote:I deleted the original topic, since the discussion is already continued here anyway and there was not anything truly interesting there.

Thanks bro, couldn't figure out how to do so myself.

On the topic of NTE sexual stuff, Awakening seems to be a pretty clear metaphor for the concept of human sexual awakening or puberty, with the first phase [Referred to as Pseudo-DNS by Mari in 3.0] straight up being called the Initial Arousal Stage [according to the other Eva Wiki who's page on it takes info from the EvaGeeks wiki https://tinyurl.com/y2tkc4fz]. Based on what I've read online, the idea of human sexual awakening is usually presented as "suddenly being aware of one's horny and becoming exponentially more horny because of it", even if that doesn't happen and it's more gradual in most people, and more strange and frightening than outright horny to some people, the similarities to Awakening are pretty interesting. [If that's confusing I apologize, Pseudo-Evolution is both Awakening and then fusing with an Angel. Awakening, Initial Arousal Stage, and Pseudo-DNS Phase are all different names for the same thing.]

Shinji forces the EVA, a sort of extension of his body, to undergo drastic changes, causing it to become more powerful, to fulfill his desire to save Rei, someone he was clearly attracted to before learning what she actually is during Fuyutsuki's Shogi lore dump in 3.0. Even if it wasn't driven solely by physical horniness, Shinji still wanted to save Rei, both because he sees her as a good person and he wants to be with her.
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