Loop Theory (I Really was born to meet you)

[Jurrasic]

Well, see, the Kaworu lines aren't enough to justify any sorta loop theory or time-bending stuff.

Oh without a doubt. There is much more, including how Neo-NERV looks like EoE's invasion of NERV by SEELE and UN forces took place during the resumed 3rd Impact but had a radically different ending then the EoE invasion which allowed the story to continue 'this time', The blood streak on the moon placed during EoE being in place, as well as going through the line of previous (and upcoming?) Kawaru clone coffins, etc. etc. (Dammit I said I wasn't going to restart this! )

Anyway I am going to read Reichu's link now tho. I am certainly still open to the possibility that this is all red herrings, but there just seem to be too many of these that need a lot of twisting around to discredit this theory. Occam's razor dosen't like it.

Sorry to revive the long dead horse, but seeing the first 10mins of the final movie on YT has gotten me right back into Evangelion all over again.

[Arcadia's legacy]

The blood streak on the moon placed during EoE being in place

When you compare them, you'll find the EoE streak is visible from the Earth's surface, whereas the NTE streak is considerably smaller, we only see it when we see the area Mk.06 is held, not from any previous shots of the moon

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

We gotta a lotta people mistaking a time skip for a time loop. That, too, is nonsense.

[Thesufferingpumpkin]

The blood stain on the moon in the second rebuild was there because during the second impact blood spewed from it and hit the moon, this is confirmed via a deleted storyboard/scene

[ShikinamiBogard]

ohhh well, i have a Theory about this, maybe is a loop, but not by the same characters, maybe be the reincarnation of them, like the buddhism , i have it on spanish maybe translate later and post it here.

https://shikinamibogard.wordpress.com/2020/08/17/roe-teoria-del-loop-reencarnacion/

[lazysaturn]

Just considering the title "3.0 + 1.0" instead of "4.0" leads me to believe there will be some type of reset.

[writer]

I know Loop Theory has already been disproven by a large majority of the class here on EvaGeeks, but it's always been a fascination of mine. And so I present you the first iteration of the Loop Theory Timeline as I can express it today. This is based on my own thoughts, supplemental video details we've received since the release of :3.0 in 2012.

If you're not into loop theory, I do apologize. If you are, let's talk about what this means and any ideas you have to expand on these thoughts:



To collect some thoughts to help guide us through and analyze this data:

Thrice upon a time = Third time's the charm. We will achieve a suitable instrumentality and succeed in becoming infinite by the end of this film.
The end of :3.0 is the first half of Thrice Upon a Time. There will be and end-roll and then we will start a new loop in the second half (+1.0).

We have 3 continuities:
EvaTV/EoE (1.0), Rebuild (:1-2-3.0), and Thrice upon a time (+1.0)
Each timeline/Loop has a 3rd Impact (3I) event, followed by instrumentality.
In EvaTV/EoE, 3I leads to Instrumentality. The final decision of this leads us to a beach where Asuka and Shinji are the only 2 remaining. We know this new Asuka as Shinkinami now, and that scene reflects events that are either metaphor of events that occur in :3.0 or within the 14 year time skip between 3I and :3.0.

The end of :3.0 will include the events of until You come to me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FgLgRjCLJY, Peaceful Times https://youtu.be/HEvTGyF9hXc|https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1umuJ4BlI0, and Another Impact https://youtu.be/_8FfpGJFfFI.
-Shinji, Asuka, and ReiQ walk through the wilderness
-Peaceful Times hidden clips occur; Shinji wanders off
-ReiQ and Shinji are separated forever; she will no longer exist
-Shinji senses and follows a call from Rei II, enters into and a new Eva unit (Another Impact)
-Causes a new Impact/Instrumentality

In EvaTV/EoE 3I/Instrumentality happens at the end of the timeline.
Time to 3I is reduced in Rebuild, occurring at the mid-point of the series.
Thrice upon a time will show a 3I that occurs very early in the loop.

Thrice upon a time will include the realizations to Shinji;
You Are Alone
You Can Advance
You Can Redo

This will allow Shinji to bring himself and all of those who have made him who he is through a perfect instrumentality, discovering a way to control his infinite Godlike nature.

While everything here is speculation, I have tried to keep as much non-sourced information out of this guide. I'd be happy to work on expanding it, so if you have any thoughts or theories I'm happy to hear them. I apologize for the scatterbrained nature of this post, I am still trying to expand on the ideas and will update here as I come to more refined thoughts.

Again, I know that Loop Theory is not popular and do not mean to set anyone off. I just think that it's legitimate enough based on the most recent trailers to discuss this openly with newer posters who may not yet be convinced.

[Arcadia's legacy]

First question: Can you explain why the blood stain on the moon is no longer visible from the Earths surface in NTE?

SPOILER: Show

[writer]

First question: Can you explain why the blood stain on the moon is no longer visible from the Earths surface in NTE?

Complete speculation, but perhaps the force of the bloodspray from Giant Rei was intense enough to turn the moon, effectively turning the Dark Side to the light.

[Arcadia's legacy]

Aside from the Moon being upside-down in the first image (i have no clue why that is), the same side is facing the Earth. The Moon's far side actually has much less dark splotches on it than the planet-facing side

SPOILER: Show

[Blockio]

I'm most puzzled as to why you assume Shin will be in a different continuity than JoHaQ. Unless you have a really solid explanation for why the final movie is supposed to be in a different timeline than the other three, I'll have to say that this entire theory is nonsense

[writer]

Aside from the Moon being upside-down in the first image (i have no clue why that is), the same side is facing the Earth. The Moon's far side actually has much less dark splotches on it than the planet-facing side

SPOILER: Show

I think it's valuable to recognize that there is a blood stain on the moon in NTE, though it may not match our direct expectations of what occurred in the previous timeline. Then again, during EvaTV/EoE timeline we are seeing a blood spray pattern in the sky, not necessarily that blood stain hitting the moon:

As well we can see the moon with it's crosshatch pattern during :3.0, which is representative of a state it exists in during Giant Rei EoE. It is possible that the scenario of EoE acts in the same way 25 and 26 of the TV Series acted for EoE; as an element of instrumentality but not the entire concept. Rebuild could occur during the initial instrumentality as part of Shinji's reflections, and the events within could be the elements that allow Shinji how to proceed.

As simply as a I can see it, the final events of EoE/Instrumentality were the trigger that caused the Rebuild series, but the Rebuilds could occur during some portion of Instrumentality and are eventually overcome with EoE showing the true events of NeonGenesis. I believe that by the time we reach Instrumentality in +1.0 we will be witnessing many timelines and events at once, and that they will be tied together by the completion of infinity and a new God.

[Blockio]

Sorry to be this blunt, but that is just not at all how this works.

for starters, the blood stain on the moon in NTE goes in the opposite direction as the one in EoE. This is not an oversight by Anno, stuff like that is a deliberate artistic choice.
As for the Impact = reset thing, the most important part is that the locations just do not match up. HIP started in Japan and ended in Japan. NTE 2I was in Antarctica, and people have memories of the time before, when the seas were not red, so that's not the cause, either. Your whole argument is based on things that just aren't the case

[Arcadia's legacy]

Another issue i have is that the mechanics of Impacts seem to behave quite differently in NTE compared to NGE. Most notably, whenever an Impact happens in NTE, a giant rainbow portal appears in the sky with 2I's still hovering over Antarctica in ha, whereas in NGE, 2I seems more like a large explosion

[writer]

Merged double post - Blockio

I'm most puzzled as to why you assume Shin will be in a different continuity than JoHaQ. Unless you have a really solid explanation for why the final movie is supposed to be in a different timeline than the other three, I'll have to say that this entire theory is nonsense

The main focus of this concept is the battle between Eva13 and Eva01. It is my theory that Shinji will get into an Eva and initiate an impact by himself (evidenced by Another Impact https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8FfpGJFfFI).

During this impact Shinji will be completely in control. He was not encouraged or manipulated by anyone, he simply got into an Eva and initiated an Impact event. This leads to instrumentality which resets the timeline, spawning Shinji back at the phone booth in +1.0. Shinji retains his memories through this, and immediately runs toward Misato, boarding the Eva without even looking at his father or complaining.

I'm not 100% sure what Shinji's mission will be, but I do have some ideas. When Eva01 is sortied rather than Sachiel we will see Eva13, which will be piloted by Kaworu and perhaps influenced by Gendo in some way (based on Eva13/eye covering imagery). Shinji will have no choice but to fight and kill Kaworu to continue toward his goal (which I speculate is to reach Central Dogma, open the Doors of Guf, and take control of his destiny).

There are lots of things still to consider, and at the very least thank you for participating in this thought experiment.

Sorry to be this blunt, but that is just not at all how this works.

Another issue i have is that the mechanics of Impacts seem to behave quite differently in NTE compared to NGE.

I think the points here are valid, but I do also think that, since the Rebuilds would be something that occurs in the mind and imagination of Shinji during Instrumentality, they do not necessarily have to be a direct correlation to the real world/original timeline. This can be evidenced as all of the alternate "realities" we see during EoE/25-26.
I think the symbolism is meant to harken back to previous events but also showcase that this new timeline/loop we have entered into is something overall different though created from concepts of the previous loop as perceived through Shinji's psyche from within the infinite God Eva floating in space.

[Blockio]

I'm not sure how Another Impact proves anything; unless you are already convinced that all the timelines are actually the same timeline (which would then also include all the weird spinoffs), it's just a standalone promotional thing, a proof of concept that photorealistic Eva would work.

In the same vein, what makes you assume that Shinji will be in control just on his own? The entire series so far has been about him being misled and having his emotions get the better of him. Even in the highly unlikely case that he makes a complete 180 to being a superhumanly rational being, this would be the definitive end of his arc, and since Rebuild is all about Shinji and his perception of the world, that would also be the end of the narrative arc of the movies. Nothing to come after that, much less a timeloop. This bit is just complete power fantasy wish fulfillment nonsense. I can tell you right now that that is not going to happen.
Same for "Shinji's mission", this whole thing is fundamentally flawed by premise. For one, why would Kaworu or Eva 13 be there, why can 13 suddenly be single-piloted, and why the hell would Gendo, the chief in charge of Nerv would have to rely on that to get to Central Dogma? If he wanted Kaworu there, he could just put him there without anyone raising an eyebrow, if anyone notices at all.

and again the same applies to your last point - you have as of yet failed to provide even a single point of proof as to why your theory is supposed to be true. What evidence points towards NTE being a dream that doesn't have a lot stronger evidence for different explanations?
Occam's razor, my dude. If you don't know the answer for sure, the explanation that requires the least amount of assumptions is likely the one that it going to be true. All of what you said is completely baseless speculation, fanfiction even.

[ShikinamiBogard]

Well , talking about loop theories I can contribute with one that have a Multiverse loop effect


First we will start to analyze the RoE titles to understand the path that I will take them in this theory:

We will start with the last one, Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0 ":|," where we already know this sign takes on a lot of relevance, ":|" because musically it means the end of the repetition.
Then we will analyze that in the previous titles there is a particularity, they are all shown with what musically it would mean repeating, for example:

Evangelion: 1.0 Evangelion: 2.0 and Evangelion: 3.0 as we can see on the official page:
https://www.evangelion.co.jp/final.html

Then we would have that,: 1.0: 2.0 and: 3.0 are a repetition cycle, the 4th movie being the one who ends this repetition cycle: 3.0 + 1.0: |

Having explained this, the theory begins, what if Shinji has created various endings with lines from a multiverse in which he unconsciously decides to repeat the story until things turn out well for him?

We would then have:
RoE You are (Not) Alone = TV finale in which you are not alone and live a normal life.
RoE You can (Not) Advance = EoE in which in spite of everything only he and Asuka left the sea of ​​LcL and that said there is no way to move forward.
RoE You can (Not) ReDo = End of the SadaManga in which existence restarts leaving traces of what once happened (for this reason, you cannot remake the world).

In all these endings Shinji with the same message but in a different way.

Taking the direction of science fiction, we could consider that Shinji in search of perfection has created those multiverses since he thought about all those different possibilities when he had the power of creation or destruction of everything.

Following the path of science fiction we could say that there is a being that is the only one capable of traveling through these parallel universes, Kaworu the first and last angel (Yes, if you can use the phrase "this time I will show you true happiness") being this The one who always meets Shinji in each of the different paths (NGE / Manga / Rebuild), does not necessarily have to be the same Kaworu, it may be others before or after him, with the probability that he has a notion of what that is going to happen and tries to guide Shinji to happiness, however who always defines that destiny is Shinji since he always changes external circumstances, changes his way of acting since we can appreciate 3 slightly different Shinji both in NGE, Manga and Rebuild, using as an example his acting in Rebuild when he saves Ayanami changes everything with a simple action.

All these actions will always lead him to repeat history until he realizes that who needs to change is the same, so in 3.0 + 1.0 we may see a different choice for Shinji to end this repetition or reconstruction of the events over and over again.


And that's my contribution, well sorry if sounds crazy but I write this when I was thinking on the bathroom

[Jäeger]

RoE You can (Not) ReDo = End of the SadaManga in which existence restarts leaving traces of what once happened (for this reason, you cannot remake the world).

There is no reset in Sadamoto's manga-. The characters in the ending are reincarnations, no the ones you knew without their memories. There is not funny time magic here, just a big time skip.

My GOD, Yui explains the thing to the READER And Sadamoto's manga is not canonical, never is gonna be, just a (shitty, very shitty) adaptation, same way other animes are adapted to paper since anime exists. He made (shitty) changes? Yeah.....like hundred of adaptations before (you better don't compare RAHXEPHON'S manga with the original series). Fidelity is not compulsory, those mangas are born as promotional products. Nowadays it happens the same with light novels.

And as Blockio said, Ockham's razor.

Just use common sense : there is a reset but only affects the buildings? It leaves the remains of the past battle? NO, that's not how the groundhog day works. Everybody got ther memories erased, excepto Misato? But their blurry, sure thosE 4 adams were the mps series......despite the show TELLING YOU THAT FOUR OF THEM have been turned into EVAS. The HELL, the story SHOWS YOU how one is them is turning into EVA 06 in the moon. And suplementary works confirm that the blood stain is a consecuence of his "travel" to the satellite. Somebody I ask myelf if people pay attention to what the screen shows
and tells them or just wanna see and hear what they wanna see and hear.

My question....why do some people want so much that NTE be linked with NGE+EOE? I don't understand, because the magic of the ending was that the epilogue was cryptic and open to interpretations. That was Anno's will and I doubt he has changed his mind. An if you believe that in the movie he is gonna be explicit about the topic, you've been watching the wrong show.

For starters : releasing movies based upon an anime that start the same way as the TV series, but from a point change the story and the ending, is quite usual in Japan. Macross Frontier or the 1986 Hokuto No Ken movie are two of the best examples. And a callback is just that, fanservice, not a clue about anything. People eating pineapple or love triangles in Macross are just that, callbacks to the original series. And that's how the industry works.

Ockham's razor.

[lazysaturn]

I think it’s what you make of it.. that’s an underlying message of Eva and life in general. Don’t expect answers, you have to answer for yourself.

I think it plays like a sequel and when you don’t learn from mistakes you are destined to repeat.

[Arcadia's legacy]

That only works if the characters remember past event's but failed to learn from them. In NTE, there is no indication that the characters possess any memory of the events of NGE, so the idea of repeating mistakes you don't learn from doesn't really hold up