Q sucks and Anno hates you [split]

[Settie]

^ I prefer the dubs take on this one, to me Misato vocalizing her frustration at Shinji at that time when the shit was hitting the fan makes more sense that concern would.

[Reichu]

^ I prefer the dubs take on this one, to me Misato vocalizing her frustration at Shinji at that time when the shit was hitting the fan makes more sense that concern would.

Do you want Evangelion, or do you want some ADR director's unnecessary reinterpretation of Evangelion? Completely changing the meaning of that line and committing character assassination is not a valid dubbing choice and saying you "prefer" it is basically saying "I don't care about what the movie actually wants to say". Why bother watching at all?

[MirrorUniverseAsuka]

Oh cool, I needed some salt for my chips.

Man, wouldn't it really suck if someone enjoyed the show in a way I disapproved of? Hmmm... Maybe there are some Gendo/Ritsuko shippers I can roll up to to tell them that they're bad fans.

[Settie]

Do you want Evangelion, or do you want some ADR director's unnecessary reinterpretation of Evangelion? Completely changing the meaning of that line and committing character assassination is not a valid dubbing choice and saying you "prefer" it is basically saying "I don't care about what the movie actually wants to say". Why bother watching at all?

It's simple, one line does not change the story, especially since Misatos duality regarding Shinji was already established during his entire stay in the Wunder. You say the dub committed assassination, i say the OG committed redundancy.

[Reichu]

MirrorUniverseAsuka: Your posts have been coated in salt for your entire forum stay. Nobody likes a projectionist. Please stop that.

[MirrorUniverseAsuka]

Hey, I've made it clear that I don't like the Netflix dub, but at least I'm not going around telling people that they're not 'real fans' or should stop watching. I'd like it if people wern't getting run out of the fandom because because they prefer one version over another. Perhaps you should think twice before implying another poster should GTFO because they're on the opposite 'team'?

[Reichu]

All you are doing is ascribing motivations to me and putting words into my mouth. That is the essence of projection and I told you to stop.

Evangelion is something where what the creator was trying to say actually matters. Entire discussions are based around the most minute of things around here. I am allowed to question why someone would go out of their way to watch "Eva by Hideaki Anno" and then give priority to a complete butchering of a character by an extraneous third party that fundamentally alters the work. That level of change in what is just supposed to be an adaptation from one language to another should not exist in the first place, let alone receive defense in the form of "it makes more sense than what the creator wanted". Why would someone say such a thing unless they don't believe the creator is capable of telling precisely the story they meant to tell? I don't know. Maybe it's worth talking about.

[IgRAzm]

I kinda prefer russian dub of the star wars prequels. I admit what they probably mischaracterized a lot of the characters in the end, and what was meant to sound awkward sometimes wasn't... Often the delivery is blatantly more fitting and seems stronger. Lucas wouldn't direct these deliveries this way, but he was IMO never particularly good with directing voicelines. I'd say he is a pretty damn good storyteller in the fundamental sense, but there are plently things where I'd rather have someone holding and directing his hand. Anyways, I have my reason to like russian dub, but honestly, even if I couldn't explain it, it still would be ok and wouldn't make me instantly critical towards his entire storytelling process, that's a ridiculous leap.

[IgRAzm]

I know you won't like this, but... I didn't notice this moment on my watch of the sub. Everything was paced too jarringly with the action scenes and all, when it left only one character to us who's drives were in any way clear. I think Q should've been more explicit with what is the hell is happening (and happened) with these other characters. Altough I probably would've paid attention when rewatching now, I think it's fair for me to fail to pay attention to the developement of this completely different Misato with very little screen time. So I'd say Anno could've done a better job there. It's not that odd to me what the line in the dub sounds more organic to some people. Authors can do wrong and change their minds on things, too. Despite this, I'm not saying what the criticism towards the dub is unvalid.
That wasn't my point, anyways. I would think Lucas would have a plently of insightful criticisms towards many of the russian dub lines, as they would've similarly change the intended context, meaning and emotional impact. He could've been as pedantic and just as he could, and he would have more knowledge about it than any other person on Earth, but after all the convincing it's very possible I still would've preferred the russian version. It might just make more sense to me than his version. To me, it might seem what the redubbers might've done a better job. Or I might simply prefer the sound of it.
The post I was reponding to got deleted... If you've changed you mind, that makes me feel pleased and shows a level of dignity. I hope that's the reason.

[Giji Shinka]

I think Q should've been more explicit with what is the hell is happening (and happened) with these other characters.

But this is the point of the movie? We however do have slightly more insight to characters compared to Shinji. He assumes that everyone hates him now and that everything is his fault, whereas we know that characters like Misato showcase actions and emotions that contradict with Shinji's viewpoint and that certain events don't match up with Kaworu's statements based on things we've seen in 2.0.
Next movie is the one where we and Shinji will get full context for other characters.

[ErgoProxy]

He [Shinji] assumes that everyone hates him now and that everything is his fault...

He's put (or puts himself) in a Kafkaesque situation, with the exception that he meets empathetic helping hand at the beginning of the story, not at the end. In this aspect, 3.33 can be seen as continuation of Der Prozess. That's what I think; I may be wrong.

Next movie is the one where we and Shinji will get context for other characters.

Or not. If you get a narrative work of art which is clearly obfuscated by creator so that you have to carefully study it to find the motive behind, then which genre it belongs to? Crime stories.

So, who killed Kaji in NGE? I can assure you he or she is present in NTE and is not anonymous anymore.

[Alaska Slim]

Late reply, but here goes.
Shinji choose to save Rei at the end of 2.0 regardless of what "might" happen has been described as a metaphor for escapism, but I feel that does a grave disservice to both characters,

You can interpret it that way.

Or you can go with "even the right decision has consequences you'll have to answer for".

NGE even advocated that "your truth" will depend on how you perceive things. It's a series that wanted viewers coming away with multiple reads of their story, because the creators understood the issues they were contending with were complex and multi-faceted.

I'll also point out: Rei Ayanami still exists, Fuyutsuki said as much.

She's waiting in wings to likely play role similar to what she did in EoE. The quantum Reis point towards that outcome.

Since the quantum Reis have been there since 1.0, this fate is pretty much pre-ordained. The only question is how she got there.

And it was so satisfying to see these two finally find the answer that they were looking for all this time in each other, instead of constantly being at the mercy of what other people say they are and what they must fight for respectively. Through this, it looks like they can now continue their growth throughout the rest of the series, and in turn, also start to help the others also find themselves through their example.

The relationship between the two shows promise, but there's still a problem; it's at least partly codependent. It's not coming from a position where each of them love themselves, but each are simply showering affection on the other.

As Rei states in NGE: "One who does not love themselves, cannot love."

Rather than just critiquing escapism, I'd say the primary message goes deeper; if you can't start your relationships from the premise that you are valuable, and worthy of love, that you can love yourself, you will likely not find success in those relationships.

The other person will simply become an object of dependence.

But then comes 3.0 and that whole thing gets unceremoniously dropped. Shinji should've never tried to save Rei, or made saving her and keeping her and those close to him safe as the reason to pilot, nor should Rei have viewed herself as being worthy of living after all, as in doing so, they just doomed the world and caused the death of millions. I know some have speculated that that didn't happen, but I can only go off of what 3.0 has shown. And true, while Kaworu might have been lying,

Kawrou personally descended with a spear, and stopped 3I in its tracks after throwing it at EVA-01. So if he's not lying in what he said, he's at least leaving something critical out. A lie of omission.

Back to the point, you have this relationship and these two characters that are slowly built up over the course of the many struggles and hardships that they go through together, only to suddenly drop it and instead insist that it was something you shouldn't have been invested in,

There are plenty of narratives where the Kuudere wins or "gets better" out there. Yuki Nagoto has at least two different forms of that, and she's a dead ringer for Rei.

What Rebuild did here was a bear bones impression of those narratives, with characters making heel-face-turns for the better seemingly by magic. It's not trying to show how human behave (like NGE did), so much as it turned Eva characters into tropes. The very same tropes Eva itself inspired.

So from the very start, this was meta-textual. It's baked into the cake.

[Derantor]

The relationship between the two shows promise, but there's still a problem; it's at least partly codependent.

I think it's useful to point out here that the topic of codependency originaly came up in relation to addiction, where one party enables the bad habits of the other. It can not be strictly transplanted onto everything. Every romantic relationship is partly codependent in that sense; that's what an intimate relationship is. You are placing your trust in another party and bestow value on their opinion exceeding that of other people, and yes, you depend on them to an extent, even for your self-worth. If you couldn't there would be no point in having a relationship to begin with, and if you define your self-worth independent from that relationship, the relationship itself is hollow.

On the topic of self-worth, it's reductionist to think that Shinji has absolutely no concept of self-love or self-worth even though he as a dependent personality. It's an ongoing process to define yourself, not a singular decision. Shinji did not magically learn in EoTV that he can love himself - he surely did at some point prior, after all he thinks he deserves certain things. He merely worked himself out of his current depression. So, how much did he love himself when he started talking to Rei? Probably a lot more than after he masturbated to Asuka. Part of that self-love certainly stems from the fact that he recognizes that he can do good for Rei by actually showing her affection.

Maybe I am just missing the point, but this need to pathologize any and all of Shinji's actions into some form of disingenuous, manipulative act to garner affection seems a little overblown. It's fairly easy to do that with any act of kindness if you just try a little.

[Giji Shinka]

Or not.

The theme of Eva is miscommunication and not understanding each other and in EoE Shinji gets to understand characters and get some context behind their actions when they're in the LCL dream.
Same is going to happen in Final, except this time it's going to happen in the real world.

[Melkor]

Maybe it's possible to watch both at the same time? Is there some way out there that exists to watch the dub with the Japanese subtitles on so that you can compare the differences while watching?

[Blockio]

That sounds like a very.... strange idea.

I suppose it is possible, by tracking down two copies, one of the subs and one of the dub, muting the subs and then synching them up to play exactly at once; but at that point the question is both if it's really worth the trouble, and also if you're actually going to get anything meaningful out of it or if your brain is just going to bash the two together

[Melkor]

I'm pretty sure there are some hardcore fans out there that have attempted to do something like that before.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Maybe it's possible to watch both at the same time? Is there some way out there that exists to watch the dub with the Japanese subtitles on so that you can compare the differences while watching?

Are you asking if there's a way to watch the English dub on Eva with the English subs? That's usually very easy. Just play the DVD or Blu-ray in a regular DVD or Blu-ray player, set the "Audio" to "English" and set the "Subtitles" to "On" or "English," and you'll be watching both at the same time. Most discs should be encoded in such a way where they'll let you do that.

[Melkor]

Are you asking if there's a way to watch the English dub on Eva with the English subs? That's usually very easy. Just play the DVD or Blu-ray in a regular DVD or Blu-ray player, set the "Audio" to "English" and set the "Subtitles" to "On" or "English," and you'll be watching both at the same time. Most discs should be encoded in such a way where they'll let you do that.

Will the subs on the disc though be the lines from the Japanese version, or exactly the same lines as what is being said in the dub? What I'm asking is if there is a way to watch the dub with subtitles that say the translations from the Japanese version.

[Reichu]

Usually the only subtitle track provided is the translation that's put on when you're watching in Japanese with subtitles. Otherwise it would be "Closed Captions for Deaf or Hard of Hearing", as in, it's transcribing what's spoken in the dubbed version for those who can't hear it. Problem is usually that only one or the other is provided, and when it's the latter they're called "dubtitles", because they're not the actual translation. In any case, for your purposes, this is a non-issue. If you have it set to the CC while watching a dub, you will know pretty damned fast. Just switch language to English and subtitle language to English and you should be set.