Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Rosenakahara » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:28 am

Ghost in the shell doesn't work in non-animated form.
At least not the general look of it.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby BrikHaus » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:41 am

Looks like Ghost in the Shell to me so far, but these are just set pics, so who knows...
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby robersora » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:23 am

These pics look rather cool and GiTS-like imho. Now, if we could just confirm that the story will at least attempt to reach the intriguing depth of the original movie, there might still be hope.

I'm not holding my breath, though.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Glor » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:44 pm

Looks pretty awesome, very Bladerunner-ish. Pretty excited, just hope they can manage the tone right.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:38 pm

^ I tend to lean towards the Mamoru Oshii side of GitS tone, so a basset hound and shots of airplanes ought to do it for me.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Gus Hanson » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:51 pm

I went about my opinion about not wanting to see this film due to the standard Hollywood has on casting Caucasians in the roles meant for Asian actors in the whitewashing thread. But that was mostly on a whim, I wouldn't really have any problem about seeing what the American talent has to provide for a project like GitS especially if it helps get other anime adaptation projects out of limbo (particularly Akira, come on producer people PULL THE TRIGGER ON THIS ONE!!!).
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Tumbling Down » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:06 am

Even if this is bad, I'm going to see it because I have a perverse desire to see more Americanized anime.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby robersora » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:10 pm

I'm too curious to not going to see it.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Ray » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:35 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:I'm too curious to not going to see it.

People like you are part of the problem. . . :facepalm: If this movie's successful I'll throw myself onto an assortment of sharp rocks. Between this and Death Note, we're not getting an American anime movie that both respects the source material and is actually good for another generation.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:48 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:People like you are part of the problem. . . :facepalm: If this movie's successful I'll throw myself onto an assortment of sharp rocks. Between this and Death Note, we're not getting an American anime movie that both respects the source material and is actually good for another generation.


Pretty sure he's not the problem here, particularly since the Japanese, literally the only people with grounds to be offended on the matter, have responded to casting decisions with a resounding "meh". It's not up to you to speak for people who can speak perfectly fine for themselves, so quit doing it.

And again, it's really weird to me that you didn't raise a similar fuss about Edge of Tomorrow. Why is that, anyway, It's the same exact thing, chapter and verse.
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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:31 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:And again, it's really weird to me that you didn't raise a similar fuss about Edge of Tomorrow. Why is that, anyway, It's the same exact thing, chapter and verse.

Because Americanizing Japanese works are okay just so long as they change the name of an Americanized Japanese work, unless it's Godzilla, in which case they must keep the name of the Americanized Japanese work. That makes sense, right?

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby Ray » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:39 pm

At least Edge Of Tomorrow had the courtesy to pass itself off as it's own product and tack 'based on' or 'loosely inspired by' at the bottom of the poster. So regardless of it's quality, it's at least distanced itself far enough from the original idea to not poison or hurt perceptions of the original story. As for Godzilla, the concept of Godzilla isn't a human being. He's a giant lizard monster, not a human character with wants and desires and a cultural background.

Hollywood, whether it realizes it or not. Has power and influence over the worlds perceptions of stories, characters, and cultures. What's put on the screen effects peoples perceptions of the world, and yes correlation doesn't always equal causation, but images on screen are representations of who we are as human beings, and what stories mean to the audience

Here's what I mean by that. Frankenstein's monster in the books is an eloquent well spoken cultured creature more in common with Hannibal Lector than the shambling, muffled, idiot corpse-man in the movies. But now thanks to Hollywood, that image has taken over as the vision of the story that everyone knows. To the point where more people prefer the idiot corpse monster over the original story.

Like it or not this is going to be the image of Ghost In The Shell that the majority of people are going to see, and if it's not done right then it will forever alter the American public's perception of this franchise, it's themes, and it's characters. Even if it is good on it's own terms. Essentially robbing it of all it's nuance, and yes, the chance for an Asian actor and character to be seen as a human being by the wide mostly white american audience. Who Hollywood still seems to think can't see humanity beyond the 'white gaze'.

To paraphrase what Justin McElroy said about Superman's character in Man Of Steel, and Batman V Superman. If a character's story is told in a certain way and given enough publicity, then that's what that story and that character will eventually become for our generation, just because it's what the public wants to see and is willing to pay money for. Tell the story of Optimus Prime being a Psychotic Murderer instead of an Icon of peace and understanding long enough then that's who the majority of the people will see Optimus Prime as.

Set aside whitewashing for a minute. If you tell a story about a Japanese character and culture with a white actress, and that's what the story of Ghost In The Shell will become for our generation. and if (god forbid) it's popular, then it will give Hollywood carte-blanche to keep doing the same thing, that will poison the public perception of the original story.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:32 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:At least Edge Of Tomorrow had the courtesy to pass itself off as it's own product and tack 'based on' or 'loosely inspired by' at the bottom of the poster. So regardless of it's quality, it's at least distanced itself far enough from the original idea to not poison or hurt perceptions of the original story.


Are you kidding me? It buried the original story. Nobody in the West knows the slightest thing about All You Need is Kill! Nobody! That movie fucking stole everything about the story and made a mint off of it, and the story and the author didn't get jack squat in return. How is that better than what we're seeing with GitS or Death Note? Let me help you out here: it isn't better. It isn't better at all.

Set aside whitewashing for a minute. If you tell a story about a Japanese character and culture with a white actress, and that's what the story of Ghost In The Shell will become for our generation. and if (god forbid) it's popular, then it will give Hollywood carte-blanche to keep doing the same thing, that will poison the public perception of the original story.


You mean, like, with Edge of Tomorrow, which you have completely given a free pass even though it has done exactly that? Jeez, man. You aren't even a SJW at this point. You're just a weeaboo who gets his shorts in a bunch when it comes to properties he cares about and doesn't give a shit otherwise, whitewashing be damned.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:47 pm

I can understand getting mad about having a white actor playing a character named Makoto Kusanagi (though since she's a soul in a replaceable body I still don't get too upset about this movie) & I can especially support anger when it's changing real people's races (21) or altering universes (The Last Airbender) I can't get upset about Edge of Tomorrow. That was a solid film that took an existing text & then told its own original story that from what I can see skimming the wikipedia article is pretty well removed from the original text. Edge of Tomorrow is a full on adaptation where the storytellers rightfully altered things to tell their own story. Not something to get upset about.

Besides. The remake craze flow both ways - http://www.themalaymailonline.com/showbiz/article/five-notable-asian-remakes-of-hollywood-movies

Hell, Andy Lau has done an almost scene for scene remake of What Women Want

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:56 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I can understand getting mad about having a white actor playing a character named Makoto Kusanagi (though since she's a soul in a replaceable body I still don't get too upset about this movie) & I can especially support anger when it's changing real people's races (21) or altering universes (The Last Airbender) I can't get upset about Edge of Tomorrow. That was a solid film that took an existing text & then told its own original story that from what I can see skimming the wikipedia article is pretty well removed from the original text. Edge of Tomorrow is a full on adaptation where the storytellers rightfully altered things to tell their own story. Not something to get upset about.


The reason you get upset is because the original text was good while Edge of Tomorrow was crap, and because of the latter's success no one knows about the quality work that inspired the shitty movie. It's exactly the sort of thing Ray claims he cares about, but it isn't a property that's important to him so he just ignores it.

The fact that it's yet another vehicle for Tom Cruise makes it doubly loathsome, but that's probably me getting more political than I ought.
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The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:28 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:original text was good while Edge of Tomorrow was crap


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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:28 pm

Shrug. I really liked Edge of Tomorrow & enjoyed both Tom Cruise - probably a loathsome person but a passionate filmmaker - and Emily Blunt in it a great deal. Never read the original text.

But, I also have not been part of this debate. I just felt lumping an adaptation that took a concept and ran with it in a new direction is a very different story then having a Caucasian playing someone named Makoto Kusanagi or a Chris Evans playing someone named Tetsuo.

Either way, there is a definite problem in the Hollywood casting circles and is one that needs to be fixed. And fixing it goes much deeper then just giving certain ethnic groups & genders a token case of "Here's your Marvel movie." Marvel is playing that game right now with Black Panther & Captain Marvel and then will probably play that same tokenism game in ten years by having their be one Latino hero & one hero from an East Asian country.

Shrug. It's a serious issue. I still liked Edge of Tomorrow as a film and didn't felt it was a movie that committed any real offense.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:01 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:But, I also have not been part of this debate. I just felt lumping an adaptation that took a concept and ran with it in a new direction is a very different story then having a Caucasian playing someone named Makoto Kusanagi or a Chris Evans playing someone named Tetsuo.


It's "Motoko". And yes, it's different, but note that Ray's also getting worked up about Death Note, which specifically westernizes names in the localized version (and has a named cast that's 40% non-white, to boot), which is exactly the same thing was what happened with Edge of Tomorrow sans name change.

Either way, there is a definite problem in the Hollywood casting circles and is one that needs to be fixed. And fixing it goes much deeper then just giving certain ethnic groups & genders a token case of "Here's your Marvel movie." Marvel is playing that game right now with Black Panther & Captain Marvel and then will probably play that same tokenism game in ten years by having their be one Latino hero & one hero from an East Asian country.


It's not tokenism when ethnic groups are actually represented appropriately in the film series. That's admittely only really true for blacks in Marvel films, but that means it's only really a problem when it comes to Latinos (who represent 17% of the population and do not make up 17% of Marvel's cast). Asians are much less of an issue given their much smaller representation in the population of the target audience.

Shrug. It's a serious issue. I still liked Edge of Tomorrow as a film and didn't felt it was a movie that committed any real offense.


If any offenses were committed, at all, it committed them as much as anything did.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: Hollywood's "Ghost in the Shell"

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Postby movieartman » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:13 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Either way, there is a definite problem in the Hollywood casting circles and is one that needs to be fixed.

And fixing it goes much deeper then just giving certain ethnic groups & genders a token case of "Here's your Marvel movie." Marvel is playing that game right now with Black Panther & Captain Marvel and then will probably play that same tokenism game in ten years by having their be one Latino hero & one hero from an East Asian country.

It can't be fixed.
Most Minorities don't sell to general audiences. Blade was the exception.

Wait... WTF your actually complaining about them giving Panther his own film? (Which appears to have a almost entirely black cast) Then what the hell are you asking for?

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:30 am

I am frankly baffled at the notion that Black Panther amount to tokenism, particularly given the fact that we have a Luke Cage show in the works and ample representation of blacks throughout the MCU. I mean, at some point you just have to acknowledge that some of the major studios are trying, you know?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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