Why No Anime from Western Nations?

[soul.assassin]

^You mean like most anime today? Given that they're drawn primarily in Korea or China?

The thread was specific, as in the West.

[LegionWrex]

The Secret of Kells, Watership Down, Waltz with Bashir, and yes, the phenomenal Pixar films.

God damn, I forgot Watership Down.

I was unfortunate enough to watch that movie at the wonderful age of 6.

You can fill in the blanks, but let's just say I haven't seen the movie since because of it.

[AR-99]

Lol I too saw it around that age when my mom took me to see it theatrically in the 80s. I love the book though and would like to see it again. Another one to rewatch, again for being too young to appreciate it, Animal Farm, which came out in 1955.

[LegionWrex]

Lol I too saw it around that age when my mom took me. I love the book though and would like to see it again.

It's weird, I've read the book several already over the past couple of years and absolutely love it. I'm hesitant to rewatch the movie again though because of my past experience with it.

Hell, I can't even look at the damn poster without getting the shakes.

[Doublegee]

You must have all seen a different BTAS than I did. Are you talking about the one from the early '90s? 'Cuz I have that on DVD and it's not remotely "adult", just faux-noir.

[r1cepurin]

The existence of this thread depresses me. Aren't we all here because we love animation as an art form? Or it's that we mistake the best of anime as the one and only art form worth merit for all times forever and ever?

Honestly I've been looking for more friends who are interested in talking to me about western animation in general, new or old I'm up for it. I know you've been busy lately, but your comment reminded me of how I just have very little friends to talk about stuff I like with.

[Squigsquasher]

You know one Western animated show that really really needs more love? Oban: Star Racers. It's a joint venture between a French and Japanese studio (The story/concepts were done by the French studio, with the Japanese one helping with the animation) with a very anime-esque feel to it. It's suitable for kids, but still quite deep and pefectly enjoyable by older audiences. The style quite closely resembles anime, but has a definite Western look to it. The characters are fun and interesting, the art is brilliant and the story is great. But for some reason, nobody remembers it. It was one of the greatest cartoons of the 2000s, and definitely worth a watch. The English voice acting was pretty decent too.

[drinian]

One other thing that hasn't been brought up is economics: most Japanese anime are extremely niche products. When you start doing the math on their profitability, it's amazing that they ever get made at all.

Here's something I wrote a few years ago:

Let's take Star Driver. According to the rankings, the DVD volume 1 sold 5,079 copies during its first week of release. It's about JPY 6,000. Let's say that it sells 10,000 copies during its retail life, or about JPY 60,000,000. There's three episodes on the disc, so that's about JPY 20,000,000 per episode. Let's ignore advertising and merchandising revenue, as there isn't much of that for some shows.

In other words, that's (very roughly) USD 200,000 budget per episode.

Let's assume, optimistically, that it takes a week to produce an episode, so that $200,000 pays one-fiftieth of the salaries of the people who work on it. Fifty times $200,000 is $10,000,000. This means that you can have about 100 people on staff, at a true cost of $100,000 per person. The "true cost" of an employee is generally 150% to 200% of their salary.

Now, go back and count the number of names in the credits of a major series. I'd be shocked if there aren't 100 personnel on a series, especially once you count distribution and retail.

[Ray]

Does Wakfu and AVATAR:the last airbender not count?

[AR-99]

Found this through Wikipedia: Can Americans Make Anime?

Avatar mentioned.

[Dr. Nick]

Found this through Wikipedia: Can Americans Make Anime?

Vietnam flashbacks.

The writer makes some good points, but he doesn't understand what loan words are, and more grievously, the whole exercise seems to be fueled by his need to derive "oughts" from a single "is": because some anime fans are acting dickishly towards anime-inspired cartoons, we must tear down this wall and liberate the language. Never mind the fact the he doesn't actually offer any new definition for anime. It apparently has something to do with sameness of style and tropes, even though he paradoxically admits in the next paragraph that there's a profusion of genres within anime. There's no attempt to address the gigantic outlier problems this assumed definition would cause: if Bleach, Trigun, Korra and Ben 10 are all anime because of their sameness, does it mean that things like Monster and Take the X Train are not?

[gatotsu911]

I think the main reason why the (stupid) question of "can there be non-Japanese anime" is even asked to begin with is due to the mind-bogglingly common misconception that "anime" is a genre. It's not. While there are a number of common stylistic tropes that generally come to mind when people think of "anime", the only actual defining aspect is being made primarily in Japan. If Toei put out a show that looked exactly like SpongeBob SquarePants, even if some of the animation was outsourced to a Korean studio, it would still be anime. If an American (and/or Korean) animation studio put out a show that looked a whole lot like the stereotypical visual style of "anime", it still wouldn't be anime.

[El Squibbonator]

I've actually been planning on writing a book about this, or rather on the broader concept of animation being misconceived as a medium fit only for children. I call it The Cartoon Heresies. I'd post my outline for it, but I don't know how to upload Word documents to this forum.

[Mr. Tines]

how to upload Word documents to this forum.

Either just cut and paste the raw text, or make a Google documents link.

[El Squibbonator]

It's a long document--six pages.

[EvangelionGodMode]

Instead of anime, America gives us comics such as marvel and DC. But IMO there just too many incarnations to be as interesting as anime. Example when jason todd got killed by the joker real early in the comics, i didn't really feel all that bad for him bc i knew sooner or later DC would recycle him and reuse him. Sure enough about 20 years later we have Red Hood and The Outlaws. I feel that with Manga and Anime your favorite character doesn't get that many second chances. Thats why i like Anime and Manga better than Comics. Bc whatever happens we know we will see Batman and Superman again. Evangelion for example, after the Rebuild films know one knows what the future will hold the franchise, it might go on a long hiatus or never come back again.

[LeoXiao]

I think the main reason why the (stupid) question of "can there be non-Japanese anime" is even asked to begin with is due to the mind-bogglingly common misconception that "anime" is a genre. It's not. While there are a number of common stylistic tropes that generally come to mind when people think of "anime", the only actual defining aspect is being made primarily in Japan. If Toei put out a show that looked exactly like SpongeBob SquarePants, even if some of the animation was outsourced to a Korean studio, it would still be anime. If an American (and/or Korean) animation studio put out a show that looked a whole lot like the stereotypical visual style of "anime", it still wouldn't be anime.

i would amend that a little bit to become "if it is produced by a Japanese firm, it is anime". All the work can be done in Russia for all I care, if Japanese people are in charge, it's anime.