[Anime] Kill la Kill

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

Y'see, here's the thing. Humans are, on their own, pretty darn weak. We make tools- that's why we stand supreme over other animals. We have guns and vehicles and dynamite.

In the war against life fibers, we made a weapon. That weapon was Ryuko. Using it, we destroyed the threat against us. It's really no different from our daily lives.

[elemileTLDR]

I had some severe ethical conflicts through this series cause, at some point, I couldn't help siding with life fibers: I personally hold no humanist nostalgia and long for our biological/physical condition and its limitations to be overcome by the means of technique (the very spirit of transhumanism), so I saw no problem with supporting the superior cloth-beings.

But then I realized that I was putting the cart before the horse: it is the mind and consciousness what I ultimately want to preserve and set free with the help of power and tools, not the other way around; it is our agency manifested in the will what constitutes the very line that separates the mind from machinery (including the body), and the reason why under no circumstances (and whatever form we take) we should ever give up our responsibility and allow some god, machines or whatever to do everything and take care of us, cause at that very moment we become essentially unnecessary and die as agencies (as it almost happened in Odyssey 2001, The End of Evangelion or, even worst, in Baudrillard's scenario of a world beyond sign and virtuality: a refound "material" state of "natural" brute machinery, constituted by mere elements ondulating perfectly but nonsensically, as with viral entities like life fibers).

So, in that sense, rejecting life fibers is pretty much like rejecting instrumentality, all for the sake of the self (or what we somehow understand as such).

[Redtophat]

Whatever happened to the merit of watching chinese cartoons solely for the cute grills?

[Shinoyami65]

^To be fair, these shows are still overflowing with cute grills. Particularly KlK. Short hair Satsuki ftw

So, in that sense, rejecting life fibers is pretty much like rejecting instrumentality, all for the sake of the self (or what we somehow understand as such).

I'd say it's slightly worse, in that while in Instrumentality humans would survive (albeit as a conjoined uber-being with no real sense of self) in the Life Fibers' plan all humans would be killed or absorbed and the Earth would be annihilated so the threat could spread to other planets.

On a different note, I'm beginning to think the entire character/plot device of the Primordial Life Fiber is an Evangelion shout-out:

SPOILER: Show

*When the Naked Sun fires at it, it deflects the cannon fire with a flower-pattern shield that I thought was vaguely reminiscent of an ATF.
*Ryuko kills the Primordial Life Fiber by destroying its core.
*In Episode 24, its remains explode into red fluid that floods the area, much like how Angels (and Lilith) die in Rebuild.
*Nui then merges with the PLF's remains and it becomes a huge deformed Nui head (like GNR in EoE or the Twelfth Angel in 3.0.
*Not to mention that Ragyo then absorbs the whole mess to power herself up and flies off, kinda like Eva-13 in 3.0 (albeit a bit of a stretch, as she goes into space and the way she absorbs it is different).

[ElMariachi]

I'd say it's slightly worse, in that while in Instrumentality humans would survive (albeit as a conjoined uber-being with no real sense of self) in the Life Fibers' plan all humans would be killed or absorbed and the Earth would be annihilated so the threat could spread to other planets.

Which makes you wonder why Ragyo was helping the OLF, what could she gain from it? At least Gendo's final goal by destroying the world was clear : being reunited with Yui, but here Ragyo has nothing to gain and everything to lose, unless somehow the human absorbed would had become new Life Fibers and stay in a state of perpetual bliss or something.

[Fireball]

Ragyou was a slave to the fibers. She didn't care what happened to anyone as long as she fulfilled her master's desires. In return she got rainbow hair, endless orgasms and an indestructible cougar body.

[GAP]

So that is what Kill la Kill is about? Is that cosmic lesson that Kill la Kill is trying to show us?

[Squigsquasher]

The message of Kill la Kill is that clothes are fascist and we must fight the power with nudity and extreme violence.

[AR-99]

Episode 25 included with last Blu-ray/DVD on September 3

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kabfn

"The fight of the fated sisters has ended, but there is one story we've neglected to tell - the various tales of graduating from Honnouji Academy. Kill la Kill episode 25, a second farewell, a completely original work, will be bundled with the September 3rd release of the 9th BD/DVD."

[elemileTLDR]

In return she got rainbow hair, endless orgasms and an indestructible cougar body.

Add to it a glam leitmotif and there you've got the woman who sold the World for a Robot Unicorn Attack mod.

[AR-99]

I admit, I stopped reading all the responses in detail and fell back on skimming.

Thinking of having some legit KLK shirt or pin for FanimeCon in May.

[CalicoCat]

So, in that sense, rejecting life fibers is pretty much like rejecting instrumentality, all for the sake of the self (or what we somehow understand as such).

I've come to a similar conclusion too. I now see the finale as not being a battle between humanity and the life fibers, but as a clash of ideologies - whether to reject humanity and use the power of the life fibers to become some new being, or to embrace humanity with all its weaknesses. And in that sense, the only two characters who are competent to have the discussion (albeit with their fists) are Ryuko and Ragyo, since they are the only two who have complete freedom to choose humanity or reject it (I'm discounting Nui, since I don't believe she's ever had sufficient experience of really being human to be qualified to judge). This choice is the truth of "Don't lose your way".

Because, let's face it, the indication is that life fibers on their own are pretty dumb. I'm not sure there's any evidence in the series that any life fiber, even the OLF, is able to communicate directly with human beings. (Senketsu can, of course, being the next evolutionary step for life fibers, much as we might consider Ryuko / Ragyo to be the next evolutionary step for humans). In retrospect, I don't even think the life fibers have any "plan" as such. They display only the traits of a simple organism - to preserve themselves, to seek nourishment, to reproduce. Not that there is nothing to admire (objectively, at least) in them - a lifeform that can cross the depths of interstellar space, unaided: one can see why Ragyo might say, as Ash does of the xenomorph in Alien, "I admire its purity".

But if life fibers are so dumb, how did they interfere with human development? By the very standard mechanisms of Darwinian evolution. A life fiber host would clearly be at a huge advantage in evolutionary terms: the improved physical and mental capabilities, not to mention the empirical data from Ragyo of increased reproductive drive (yes, lesbian incest isn't the most reproductively sound strategy, but I'll chalk that up more to her personal tastes). You would expect an organism that entered a symbiotic relationship with life fibers to soundly out-compete others in evolutionary terms. The clothed shall inherit the earth.

Linked to this, for me, Ragyo's suicide clearly demonstrates that every action she took was her conscious decision, not the actions of a puppet dancing to the whim of some life fiber uber-mind. The right action from a life fiber perspective would surely be to surrender, return to Earth, bide your time and hope to rebuild your strength. But Ragyo was proud, and having once transcended the human condition, was unwilling to return to it; and in taking her own life she actually absolves her daughters from having to make the decision as to whether she lives or dies themselves, which in a strange way is actually a kind (though doubtless unintentional) thing to have done.

And, you know what? Life fibers aren't so bad, really. What are they, if not a catalyst for universal evolution? True, the last stage of their "colonization" of a planet ends in disaster for its inhabitants, but what wonders of art and science might have been created prior to that point? Does every planet inevitably reach the stage of Cocoon Sphere Nativity? And if you evolve fast enough, who's to say you couldn't leave your world and take those things with you such that your civilization is preserved long after "home" has been destroyed by the Cocoon Sphere. I don't think the life fibers would set any proscription against that. And how many more worlds would benefit from accelerated evolution because of the destruction of that one planet?

To re-pose Madoka's comment, "If only... you hadn't come to this planet...", "You'd still be living in caves, I think", and, of course, Kyubey would probably approve of the whole situation, and merely say, "If you feel like dying for the evolution of the universe, just let me know".

[Xard]

Ehhh, usually I'm not the one pull this card but I think you guys are horribly over fanwanking things with this whole lolinstrumentality thing. There're no musings about human condition, nature and value of self, HIP equivalent or anything else needed for strong case to be made here. Even the joys of fiber assimilation are presented as pinnacle of hedonistic pleasure instead of any evolutionary or "joining with the divine" or any other SEELESque bullshit.

What's more humanity will not assume any new "evolutionary" form through the process as they're pretty much just food for life fibers. Nutrition to be used in their biological drive to spread through universe. Life fiber involvement in human evolution too is nothing more than another instance of "lol ancient aliens" scifi trope.

And if we must look for comparison points in other anime Life Fibers remind me far more of Hideauze Gargantia style or Gunbuster Space Monsters than anything in Evangelion.


If there's thematic angle to approach series with that plays with individuality et al plausibly it's taking the whole fascism thing seriously. Such thematic explorations however differ fundamentally from more abstract and philosophical vein of high concept science fiction exemplified by Eva and HIP.

Then again GAINAX fans are prone to pull lolinstrumentality card even with Anti-Spirals in Gurren Lagann despite only superficial parallels so maybe I should just shut up.

[elemileTLDR]

And, you know what? Life fibers aren't so bad, really. What are they, if not a catalyst for universal evolution? [...] To re-pose Madoka's comment, "If only... you hadn't come to this planet...", "You'd still be living in caves, I think"

Let me take it even further.

Parasitic or not, somehow animic or not, life fibers did seem a lot like the Kyubey race (the analogy of humanity with cattle is present) and like the sea of LCL in the sense that they are an all-as-one entity with no such thing as otherness within them: they aren't individuals, so there can't be any form of interpersonal conflict among them, thus no need for ethics, morals or even feelings as artificial systems to cope out with the minds' colliding. Like you correctly pointed out, the main problem is the tension between limits and freedom through an existence founded on difference; since concepts like good and evil only have sense as choices we make while dealing with our peers, life fibers would be neither good or bad but, rather, innocent. We are not, however, and this series helped me remember that it is preferable and important to somehow remain like this (cause it entails a richer existence).

@Xard
What can I say? I do am a batshit insane fascist, at this point. That happens.

[Fireball]

Clothes aren't fascist. Clothing is just analog to our world. KlK isn't preaching a message, it's an allegory to parts of growing up, the very chaotic, hurried and passionate feelings of the show is the point itself. People are people, clothing is clothing. You aren't the clothes you wear so don't let yourself define by apppearence or control by anyone. Be yourself and don't lose your way.

[robin007bond]

I'm in a dilemma.

So far, this show wasn't able to grab my interest. I finished episode 7, but I'm thinking of dropping it. I read a lot about pacing issues and that the story will get better once it progresses.

My question:

If I didn't like the first episodes at all. Is there a chance that I will enjoy the next episodes? I liked Gurren Lagann a lot, so I don't have problems with the style or the action. The rape jokes were a downer for me and to be honest, I don't really know why I don't enjoy it. It just isn't interesting enough for me now.

My girlfriend loves this anime, so I'm thinking about watching it for her.

Your thoughts on this? Can I be entertained later on even in consideration that I didn't like all episodes so far? (except the episode where they went all in with the craziness. It finally chose a single direction). My MAL is in my signature. Maybe you can guess if this is the kind of show for me?

[Mr. Tines]

How did you fare with FoolyCooly or Panty and Stocking (being other instances of Imaishi style wackiness)? That's probably a good guide.

[robin007bond]

How did you fare with FoolyCooly or Panty and Stocking (being other instances of Imaishi style wackiness)? That's probably a good guide.

Hmm, I enjoyed FLCL. Never bothered with Panty and Stocking.

Argh! It's difficult for me.

[Fireball]

First half is build up for the second. I'd say stick to it but forcing yourself through something you don't enjoy doesn't sound right. Go with your gut.