Gundam (In All Its Incarnations) Mk. II

[Gus Hanson]

Had a blast riffing with Blockio on Discord the original Seed episodes. Of course we skipped the clip shows and just about anything Flay related since she's a psycho bitch who manipulates people to do her bidding. Cagalli's temper can be troubling at times along with Mu's tendency to speak insensibly.

[cyharding]

In the case of Gaia Gear those modifications would need to be pretty extensive, because its setting is mutually exclusive with the canon that replaced it.

Other than the basic outline and listening to a little bit of the audio drama version that's on youtube, I really don't know too much of the details. So, I'm curious how F91 or Victory would make that difficult. G-Savior would directly contradict it, but as I stated above, I think it is going to be declared noncannon for the reasons stated in my previous post along with the fact that no one really likes it. I think Gaia Gear will be animated becuase it is a Tomino created story which would be perfect for the UC next project. Also there have been some aspects from that series appearing in other Gundam works, like the concept of memory clones (which first appeared in GG) showing up in Unicorn.

I know that in the original Hathaway's Flash novel, the upcoming anime has to change the story because

SPOILER: Show

the orginial novel is based on events from the novel version of CCA where it is Hathaway, not Armuro, that kills Quess

to make it line up with the CCA film. If they can do that, it should be possible with GG.

Code: Select all

 AFAIK, it's basically just known as Kazuhisa Kondo's take on Zeta.

Actually, that would be the manga Side Story of Gundam Z, which Kondo drew.

[Gus Hanson]

^ Yeah, I wasn't too into either the Darth Vader Char knockoff in F91 nor G-Reco when it aired. I might consider giving G-Reco another chance since I did like the character designs and the opening and ending themes (the first ones for both of them).

[Blockio]

G Reco in my opinion isn't bad as much as it is utterly... pointless. So much of it just doesn't go anywhere. It's a shame, since there clearly was a ton of thought put into the world, the actual story is just too weak to support the cool things in it

[robersora]

^
I honestly wonder how anyone manages to sit through the scatterbrained to the point of being absolutely bonkers directing of Tomino Shows. Like it's funny for 3 Minutes, and he is great at depicting chaos, but that's it. Otherwise the erratic way things play out are just bewildering and exhausting to me.

[Justacrazyguy]

Tomino's directing isn't that erratic tough. It's different from the norm, for sure, but I never found myself lost because of it. And he is a god at directing action.

[robersora]

^
Every show I tried watching completely lost me within the first 5 Episodes.

[The Killer of Heroes]

Tomino seems more confusing once you actually read his stated intentions for any given series.

Like he wanted one of the takeaways of G-Reco to be that humanity should be skeptical of developing space elevators and that humanity probably should never waste time developing them, and it fucking baffles me that he thought anyone would ever get that out of that show to say nothing of the actual merit of that thought.

[Blockio]

He.... he what now? THAT was the supposed takeaway from G Reco?

...yeah that failed hard

@robersora a Tomino show that might just be for you is Turn A Gundam. Easily one of my favorites shows in general, far more concise than his usual nonsense, and on top of that has the look and feel of a Ghibli movie

[Zusuchan]

Blockio wrote:
He.... he what now? THAT was the supposed takeaway from G Reco?

One of the supposed takeaways. Tomino wanted to make a series about the effects that some potential, currently-under-development technology and the way energy is consumed on Earth could have. But yeah, he considers space elevators a stupid idea.

Full disclosure: I've never watched a Gundam show nor anything done by Tomino, so I don't know how well the stupidity of space elevators was discussed in his latest project, but the very fact someone wants to make a 26-episode series that has that as one of its key themes is pretty "huh". Especially since I've heard the series was really confusing.

[The Killer of Heroes]

He.... he what now? THAT was the supposed takeaway from G Reco?

...yeah that failed hard

Well one of the takeaways as Z-chan says, but its still bizarre he even intended this.

“Although Gundam Reconguista in G is meant for young people, I am still presenting some issues for them to think about. So to give an example, I am opposed to the concept of a space elevator. I added the elevator known as the Capital Tower in the series so the younger viewers would wonder if it was really possible to make something like it. I also wanted them to raise questions toward the adults. It's a delayed response maybe, as we might not see a reaction for another 20 years or so.

[...]

“As I see it, a space elevator cannot work in terms of offering a viable infrastructure. That's the point. Economically it is not feasible, unless it becomes something like Capital Tower, which is like a train system. Even then, it is an inherent contradiction. This is because as a means of transport there are simple conditions that need to be fulfilled. There has to be a destination or goods that need to go to and from that destination. Otherwise there is no point in going there. So in Gundam Reconguista in G we set it up so that there was a reason that this space elevator had to exist, in terms of transporting Photon Batteries from orbit. In that, there were goods to be delivered. However, unless it is in the world of animation there aren't any legitimate reasons to travel into space via an elevator. I really wish engineers would understand this simple fact; there needs to be a real utility here.

“With the current technology and skillsets we have, a space elevator is not possible. You can't put a cable at that distance tethered to a space station with the currently available construction technology. There is no technical information as to how you would design something like a public transportation system. Earlier this year it was also shown to be impossible and I suppose that through Gundam Reconguista in G I wanted to highlight that.”

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2017/03/13/yoshiyuki-tomino-on-gundam-newtypes-and-the-perilous-future-facing-humanity/?sh=3a4d5f804b8a

Maybe the new movie editions of G-Reco are making the supposed futility of space elevators more clear?

[Blockio]

Space elevators were barely a framing device in G Reco. they show up on occasion, but you'd be hard pressed to find any plot point that actually centers around them, barring some stuff at the very start


Welp, TKoH beat me to it. Yeah, that is.... I almost want to say a non sequitur when contrasted with the show. Also, is it just me or is he just kinda stating th obvious for the most part

EDIT: I'm moving this to the Gundam thread, much better off there

[kuribo-04]

We're like "WTF", meanwhile I guess to Tomino it's the most logical thing...somehow.

[robersora]

Like he wanted one of the takeaways of G-Reco to be that humanity should be skeptical of developing space elevators and that humanity probably should never waste time developing them, and it fucking baffles me that he thought anyone would ever get that out of that show to say nothing of the actual merit of that thought.

lmao
He's clearly a crazy person, and knowing that, I love him now. His shows are the ramblings of an utter incomprehensible mind and it shows. While I adore the concept of Gundam being the labor of love from a brilliantly demented mind lacking the actual chops to create anything coherent or enjoyable, and that such a hack somehow managed to stay in the industry, despite getting even worse over the years, is wonderful. The act of actually watching Tomino is still too painful for me. The Ideon Slap Battle slaps tho.

To be fair, the space elevator dumb idea might have been a jumping off point for G Reco, devolving even further and faster into nonsense than usual.

@robersora a Tomino show that might just be for you is Turn A Gundam. Easily one of my favorites shows in general, far more concise than his usual nonsense, and on top of that has the look and feel of a Ghibli movie

Yeah, I managed to get relatively far in (7 Episodes?), due the strengths of the gorgeous looking world and lovely art design (including the characters) in general. It really looks nothing short of amazing. Also, music by Yoko Kanno. But at my age, bling bling will carry me only so far; masking the abysmal structuring of the show it does not.

[Blockio]

:lol:
Yeah, I managed to get relatively far in (7 Episodes?), due the strengths of the gorgeous looking world and lovely art design (including the characters) in general. It really looks nothing short of amazing. Also, music by Yoko Kanno. But at my age, bling bling will carry me only so far; masking the abysmal structuring of the show it does not.

Huh, interesting you experienced it that way. I found the structuring of Turn A to be pretty decent in all honesty, at least at this point. It lacks a fixed direction somewhat, that is true, but in my opinion that works in the show's favor in showing how messy and confusing war is.
at least at this point in the show, the last arc has much of the same thing going on with none of the excuses for it

[Zusuchan]

Blockio: I kind of agree with Tomino's point as well-there isn't really an actual need for space elevators right now. If we do colonize the Moon, then it could have some point perhaps, though flying with rockets would be substantially faster for the most part...

Edit: An actual quote by Tomino I found:

By directing combat and war pieces, I could experience catharsis and successfully avoid committing a murder in real life. In this sense, I'm really grateful for that because I was conscious that I had such homicidal traits, to be honest.

I mean...okay.

[hui43210]

Blockio: I kind of agree with Tomino's point as well-there isn't really an actual need for space elevators right now. If we do colonize the Moon, then it could have some point perhaps, though flying with rockets would be substantially faster for the most part...

Edit: An actual quote by Tomino I found:



I mean...okay.

This just confirms my suspicions that Tomino is a legitimate lunatic. I'm also of the opinion that Turn A isn't any more profound or better structured than other show he's done, it just looks and sounds pretty and people give a pass for some reason. The only difference I can find from other Tomino Gundams was that it was painfully boring. Even if there are worse Gundam shows, they at least have better entertainment value.

[Mr. Tines]

G Reco in my opinion isn't bad as much as it is utterly... pointless. So much of it just doesn't go anywhere.

I quite agree. It was a "tour of the balloon factories" only with an obligatory robot fight every episode that meant we didn't even get to see much by way of the attractions on the tour. Not even why the Venus Globe was so named when we never actually saw, you know, the planet Venus itself, even just as a bit of scenery in the distance.

The Capital Tower was about the only developed part of the setting, even if one has to ignore the fact that there'd be noticeable gravity on the lower Nuts (making the demands on the tower cables that much greater). And that you'd want something like Luna 2 (from way back in the Universal Century) as a counterweight at the top unless Sankt Porto is meant to be way above the Clarke orbit.

[Gus Hanson]

@Blockio I hope this doesn't inconvenience you but in terms of future Seed Discord viewings, i am willing to keep watching only if you allow the Flay scenes to be viewed as well. I honestly don't mind taking the good with the bad. On that note, if we could rewind the eps we have seen only to see those scenes we ignored featuring Flay that would be alright. Just a suggestion.

[Justacrazyguy]

I'm honestly baffled at how much hate Tomino is getting here, as if the anti war theme of all the Gundams he made is in any way difficult to understand.You know, the most important part of the shows? We're talking about the director that sometimes has the main characters literally scream the message at the audience.

I also don't see how him saying some odd stuff on interviews means he's some deranged lunatic. Oh no, he hates space elevators and Victory Gundam, he must be out of his mind!
I'd like to remind there is this guy called Hideaki Anno that seems to really like 0079(no ideia how he feels about Zeta or any of the other shows) and I seriously doubt he likes it just because there are cool robots. I'd also like to point out this Shinji has some similarities to this other Amuro guy.

I'm obviously biased because I liked all Tomino Gundams I've seen(Turn A and Zeta especially) but I am seriously struggling to see the apparent madness that is in everything he directed.