Things that annoy you about anime and its fans.

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Postby Defectron » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:51 pm

View Original Postnervshatter wrote:It always annoyed me how sailor moon lacked fanservice I would have totally gotten into it if it had some panty/boob shots :D please dont take this post serious


Well I didn't care about that but a lot of other things annoyed me in that show, like how she would almost always beat the bad guys in exactly the same way, where she shoots that thingy and the giant heart comes out and smashes into the monster. I mean if some monster with strong melee combat abilities who was good at dodging ranged attacks came along, Sailor moon would be screwed, and then you would get to see all those panty and boob shots you were complaing about not seeing.

But yeah I am curious, what does that heart do exactly? I mean if Sailor moon turned evil for some reason and decided to go on a rampage what would happen if she just went around town zapping random people/things with that big shooting magic heart thingy she always used to kill the monsters?
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Postby nervshatter » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:14 pm

From what I watched the villains in SM had an IQ less than their shoe size so even someone as dumb as her could beat them and I have no clue what that heart thing would do to a regular person but I do know that if she did decide to go on a rampage it wouldn't take much to bring her down considering how pathetically weak she was.

Back on topic SM is a great example of an anime that reuses stock footage way too much its really annoying and cheap.
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Postby Atropos » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:22 pm

Stock footage doesn't ruin a show. Utena is a great series, and it's approximately 45% stock footage.

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Postby C.A.P. » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:26 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Hell, most of the time characters fill each other like Huey, Luey and Dewey.


This made me laugh longer than it should of.

View Original Postnervshatter wrote:From what I watched the villains in SM had an IQ less than their shoe size so even someone as dumb as her could beat them and I have no clue what that heart thing would do to a regular person but I do know that if she did decide to go on a rampage it wouldn't take much to bring her down considering how pathetically weak she was.


I blame Ikuhara for this.
Last edited by C.A.P. on Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Xard » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:27 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I don't think anyone here's been arguing it should be. It's easy to win an argument when you're burning straw men.


Well to be frank I don't even know why you're even arguing against me then. I granted there's kernel of truth into the rule but pursued unerringly will just shit* and as such it's poor criticism of entire medium.


View Original PostBagheera wrote:It's also something people do. Telling is fine so long as it's not a crutch. I've said this before.


Not in the way and extent Eva does it. I was rewatching Eva eps here and there recently after chee was grumbling about Anno's "failures" with this said rules and I must admit it became rather jarring experience for a while.


*If it was genuine axiom of good writing I don't think such results should be possible. Hence why it's at most useful motto that don't even have prima facie justification.

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Postby Dream » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:00 pm

View Original Postnervshatter wrote:From what I watched the villains in SM had an IQ less than their shoe size so even someone as dumb as her could beat them and I have no clue what that heart thing would do to a regular person but I do know that if she did decide to go on a rampage it wouldn't take much to bring her down considering how pathetically weak she was.

Back on topic SM is a great example of an anime that reuses stock footage way too much its really annoying and cheap.


I really wouldn't call Sailor Moon dumb, but rather just very childish/naive. I wouldn't call her weak either. And the reused footage can get pretty grating at times, specially in scene where it does not fit at all, but at least it's pretty enjoyable to watch.
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Postby soul.assassin » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Dunno, but I remember SM was written and made to appeal to kids back in its heyday.
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Postby Defectron » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:00 pm

View Original PostDream wrote: I wouldn't call her weak either.


Well her ranged attacks might be good, we don't really have much to go off of since they only are used against the enemies. But if she did get into a fight with an enemy that used melee combat and was fast enough to dodge her ranged attacks she would be in trouble.

Anyway I forgot an0other big thing that annoyes me, when a series keeps going long after it has jumped over all of the sharks. DBZ is probably the worst example of this. The Buu saga was one of the biggest pieces of crap I've ever seen but they brought it back for more with DBGT.

This has happened with other series like Inuyasha, I kind of worry this is what will happen in mlpfim even though that isn't an anime.
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Postby Madonna » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:20 am

- The excessive amount of fan service in certain anime, it's not needed.
- Animes with too many "filler" episodes
- Pretentious anime fans who look down on others for having more "mainstream" taste in anime
- Fans who can't handle (constructive) criticism of their favorite animes.

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Postby Noriko is my wife » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:33 pm

This got so long I bolded the bits worth reading

I guess Bagheera and Xard has said everything they wanted about showing vs telling but I'll do my best to drag it up again. First what does showing and not telling even mean when outside of literature? I was looking for examples so the first thing I went to was wikipedia where I found this quote.

Needless to say, many great novelists combine "dramatic" showing with long sections of the flat-out authorial narration that is, I guess, what is meant by telling. And the warning against telling leads to a confusion that causes novice writers to think that everything should be acted out ... when in fact the responsibility of showing should be assumed by the energetic and specific use of language.

Replace language with image and you get film.

In the Bob's death example assuming Alice is in the frame we will always be shown how she reacts. Of course it can also not be shown but revealed in some other way by say a dialogue between Alice and third characters. But then something else is still shown - how Alice interact with someone - and this would (ideally) also be what's important to the story.

In the less specific examples from Eva the assumption is that (inner) monologues tell rather than show. But that's denying that the images (as well as plot situation situations etc) shown when those monologues are heard also tells (uhg) something. It's reducing the story telling to the voiced script. It's even reducing the script to convey nothing but specific information to be taken at face value (like "Alice was upset") ignoring that what a characters say or think can tell us something besides the outright stated.

To try and find some better example of telling rather than showing I googled some more and found this.
http://howmovieswork.com/how-to-show-not-tell-in-your-movie-script/
It tells us how
the ‘hippest, coolest’ movie makers like Kubrick, Altman, Malick, and Tarantino achieve their effects.

:D

We learn that
It means don’t use words when images can do the job.

It then contrasts a "exposition-heavy CSI script" with wordless scenes from Bridesmaids and The Tree life that moves the audience to tears, several times in fact.

I think whoever wrote this has a sound attitude to film generally but has also confused something along the way. Films that don't tell us something with images are dull, bad films. Good films tells us things with images even when no words are spoken. I agree here. The style and the mood a film conveys will always be the most important aspects to me. But here is where the writer commit an error thinking more or less that if good films tells us something with images when there are no words spoken then it means that when words are spoken they tell us nothing through images. The less words the more "pure cinema" :rolleyes: it is. It's treating words like they subtract something rather than adding another layer. I don't think this comes from the "show don't tell" debate of literature so much as from the now antiquated discussions that tried to raise films status by showing that they were not an extension (or degradation) of theater. Leading to words becoming the enemy. Still, I have a feeling that watching two CSI agents zooming and enhancing during a wordless sequence is just as dull as watching them talk about finger prints for some reason :tongue:. Bad films might rely on words instead of images but a good film can rely on words and images. It's the lack of an instead that makes all the difference.

(A side note on the film vs theater/words thing. Aren't the people who use phrases like "pure cinema":rolleyes: and castigate certain films for not being "film like" enough also surprisingly often devotees of certain New Wave filmmakers who like no others before them fused film with theater and literature through the borrowing of their techniques and styles? How did that happen? :tongue: )

(Is this a good idea for a sf short story?: In an alternative past where film has been dismissed as an extension of the concert film critics are working to raise the status of film by trying to separate it from music. Good films rely less on music. The "pure cinema" :rolleyes: is fact completely silent save for the dialogue. The story itself is the essay arguing for this. Also in the end the critic signs his name and he's Goebbels.)

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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:45 pm

View Original PostNoriko is my wife wrote:Aren't the people who use phrases like "pure cinema":rolleyes: and castigate certain films for not being "film like" enough also surprisingly often devotees of certain New Wave filmmakers


Well they could also be devote followers of Dziga Vertov's "No story/no title cards/reality only/Final Destination" philosophy! XD

Man, that dude was kind of crazy.

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Postby Noriko is my wife » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:31 pm

View Original PostThe Killer of Heroes wrote:Well they could also be devote followers of Dziga Vertov's "No story/no title cards/reality only/Final Destination" philosophy! XD

Man, that dude was kind of crazy.


Yes Vertov was part of what I meant with an antiquated discussion. Just read the opening text to Man With A Movie Camera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iey9YIbra2U

Then there was this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cin%C3%A9ma_pur

I've just observed a certain correlation between the use of this phrase and having certain favorites when it comes to who represents this supposedly pure cinema™.

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Postby The Killer of Heroes » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:44 pm

What I never really got about Vertov and those types was they seemed to believe that their type of filmmaking couldn't coexist alongside narrative filmmaking*.

It just seems like diversity is something you would want to have in any kind of artistic field. Variety is awesome.

*Yeah, I know as far as Vertov there was the Soviet propaganda aspect, but even something like Battleship Potemkin still had a narrative, while also maintaining the Soviet...ness about it.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:17 am

View Original PostDream wrote:I really wouldn't call Sailor Moon dumb... I wouldn't call her weak either.


That's why they rebuilt her, made her better, faster, stronger.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:19 am

What i hate about Anime:
-Anime that has too much fan service.
-DBZ style power-ups.
-Harem anime's.
-Characters like Luffy, Ichigo, Naruto ect.....
-Female characters that are useless, weak, and rely on the main characters way too much.(*cough*Orihime Inoue*cough*)
-Anime that has a cliche story line: main character gets a mystical power, he lives a normal live before that event as a normal high school student. He has a love interest that is mysterious (transfer) student, he joins some kind of secret society for some reason(His love interest also belongs to this society) and he has multiple girls chasing after him, they beat up bad guys blablalblalalalaa......
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:58 pm

You can avoid those by not watching long-running shonen series, just looking at the bounded ending series, then looking at the season's anime charts, reading the summary and saying "Nope!" when the phrase "ordinary high school student until..." appears. Of course, some people say that Strike Witches has too much fan-service, but that's because they don't expect so much by way of WWII militaria in their anime.
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Postby Atropos » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:00 pm

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:Anime that has a cliche story line: main character gets a mystical power, he lives a normal live before that event as a normal high school student. He has a love interest that is mysterious (transfer) student, he joins some kind of secret society for some reason(His love interest also belongs to this society) and he has multiple girls chasing after him, they beat up bad guys blablalblalalalaa......

You basically described the plot of Revolutionary Girl Utena, except that the protagonist is a girl and her harem is made of attractive young men.

It made me laugh.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:19 pm

Plus she's the transfer student as well.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:10 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:You can avoid those by not watching long-running shonen series, just looking at the bounded ending series, then looking at the season's anime charts, reading the summary and saying "Nope!" when the phrase "ordinary high school student until..." appears. Of course, some people say that Strike Witches has too much fan-service, but that's because they don't expect so much by way of WWII militaria in thair anime.

Yea, i agree with you Tines. I've been avoiding long running series for some time now(And school setting anime's) . :tongue:
But a plot summary can fool you, like in Bakemonogatari it described the plot like every other high school anime series: fighting against ghosts/demon's, school setting ect. But the series itself is much better and unique than the other series in the same genre. (It doesn't have much high school itself in it, but it is present there.)
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Postby Alaska Slim » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:35 am

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:What i hate about Anime:

-DBZ style power-ups.

Pssbbt wha?!?! Those are awesome, especially when the the show/character theme starts playing and you know shit is about to get real.

Or when said theme is sucked up into a giant conch along with the finisher move, and you know the villain has now just essentially sketched "you will die" into the heroes' soul.
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