Kenshin Sephiroth wrote:I understand that such lengthy explanations probably wouldn't be viable due to time constraints and the baddies that need ass-kicking, but I can't say I wouldn't have welcomed at least
some explanation in the movie, as the wonder of discovery is also supposed to be a selling point in fantasy. It's called
"worldbuilding" for a reason, and we get buttloads of that in Star Wars and Lord of the Rings.
But there really is nothing about portals in need of explanation anymore than original Star Wars film had need for precise technological breakdown of how exactly the lightsabers work. What we know is enough for the story. Worldbuilding is all about meaningful direction of reader's/viewer's attention. You always make omissions on expense of what you do focus on. Going into precise detail about portals summons forth more irrelevant questions that suddenly seem relevant.
Kenshin Sephiroth wrote:The unexplained disembodied voice that announces a time and place for Haru to be present is what spurs her toward the cat kingdom, and is thus the whole catalyst
for the storyline. Anyone pointing this out, be it an adult or a six-year-old child, is drawing attention
to the plot and would be right in doing so. This isn't nitpicking that should be left ignored, it is an issue by which the plot stands or falls, and it should be questioned.
*****
But really, the all-too-convenient voice was what really pissed me off. Humans metamorphosing into cats was at least firmly established as physically possible and used consistently throughout, but that voice (which I couldn't identify as belonging to any of the off-screen characters) is a case of the writers going "We need to get Haru from point A to B, but how? I know! We'll have some floating ghostly utterance deliver the information, genius! Huh, what's that, how is this possible and what purpose does it serve other than being a cheap mechanical plot spin? Look, a squirrel!!!! *runs away*" Imagine if Luke and Frodo throughout their quests were haphazardly pulled toward their goals by invisible strings the writers conjured up due to lack of motivation or proper writing skills; I wouldn't accept the excuse that it's simply "to get the ball rolling along" or whatever: these iconic characters would be reduced to flopping fishes thrown maniacally about by creative forces they have no chances of ever comprehending. I've only seen The Cat Returns once, but I can't picture how lazy (or brilliantly fatalistic) this plot would appear on a second viewing.
Fair enough. Based on this the "voice issue" is legitimate complaint. Keep in mind it's something between 1½-2 years since I saw The Cat Returns so I don't remember the details of it all that well. It's just that when you mix legitimate concerns like this with silly ones (portals, more on that later) it is not all that clear which is which.
Kenshin Sephiroth wrote:I really don't think it's silly for me to apply logic to an anime aimed primarily at children. It's not nitpicking, it's discovering whether or not, despite its fairy tale focus, it establishes rules and follows them through; all excellent fairy tales do this so as to keep the audience invested, involved and inspired to guess what's coming up next.
Applying logic is fine and with the disembodied voice deal (assuming your account on it is correct, I have no motivation to go and rewatch the film just because of this) I acknowledge the validity of criticism. The crow thing I remain agnostic on because too many details of it are blurry in my memory (based on what little I do remember of it it didn't fundamentally differ from thousands of other daring escape scenes like that in common in adventure fiction).
As for the portal criticism it's so petty and inconsequential calling it "nitpicking" is too generous on my part.
Considering how close The Cat Returns generally sticks to ancient and tried storytelling formulas I find it pretty amusing you could blame it for not establishing and following the rules. Possible plot holes like the disembodied voice are legit issues on the superficial level of the storyline - in abstract the way how character drama is build and resolved and the distinct parts the narrative moves through and how it resolves itself are all by the book. Whether or not the execution is good is another thing (and in this evaluation plot holes and such matter) but regardless of quality The Cat Returns does follow the usual storystelling forms downright slavishly. Criticizing it for lack of originality would be more sensible than claiming it doesn't follow the rules.
Kenshin Sephiroth wrote: A fantastical tale can be weird, silly, rambunctious, and supernatural, but it also has to be
consistent.
Should we dissolve all standards and let it all up in the air, the filmmakers would be given carte blanche to do anything they wish without any repercussions; this isn't difficult, because you don't even have to actually write the film, and that'll make anyone a writer. Because anyone can
not write, and in this regard anyone can write The Cat Returns.
not really related to topic but since you brought it up: yeah, welcome to the 20th century. It happened already. Also implying Inland Empire wasn't best film of last decade. "Consistent" can mean many things.
Kenshin Sephiroth wrote:There were plenty of inconsequencial oddities in The Cat Returns that aren't worth addressing, but the few ones I've pointed out (which hasn't exhausted the list) are not arbitrary; they are integral to and dependent on the plot, and certainly not part of any genre convention I'm familiar with.
Voice criticism acknowledged, psychic Baron ignored due to too hazy memories on my part what's left is the magical portal issue. If for you the voice thing was what pissed you off then for me it was this criticism that made your review come off silly. As said Cat Returns is just ok in my books and I don't really mind one way or another if you like the film itself: what irks me are if reasons given come off unjustified.
Thus I'll go through what you wrote about it and why it is ridiculous from my perspective:
I understand that this is a fairy tale for kids and is meant to be enjoyed as such, but when you set up a scenario in the real world, and then continuously defy the scientific laws that bind it, it makes for a confusing and frustrating watch. This comes first and really negatively impacted anything you wrote afterwards because this is unambiguously wrong. Unless you have some interesting theories on nature of reality and its parts (particularly cats) it's from the very beginning clear the setting is NOT ment to be the "real world" but rather a fantasy world where we get to travel between magical dimension and seemingly mundane "real world". A magical fairy tale in setting full of magic and anthropomorphic animals defying reality? Jesus Christ how horrifying.
Why are there portals around town that lead to and from the cat kingdom? The story establishes this clearly through action: they're a way for cats to travel between their kingdom and the city and that is the purpose they serve.
Who put them there and how do they work? They work through magic and unless you want the film be cluttered by (meaningless and irrelevant for the storyline) time consuming history where did the cats come from, were they intelligent to begin with, just what exactly is the relationship between cat kingdom and Earth, how does the magic work etc. responsible storytelling choice is to leave it at that and stop short of conjuring up ridiculous Dungeon & Dragon knockoff magic rule sets. All of these are as arbitrary questions and if one of them
demands answer for story to work so do they all.
Their purpose is evident and in a magical fantasy world their working principle being magic is implicit. As for such portals not being part of any "genre convention" all I can do is laugh. A magical gate, boundary or downright teleportation location between the realm of normal and the realm of fantasy is one of the most common genre conventions imaginable. The closet from Narnia is other good, downright classic example of essentially similar function in storytelling.
It's beyond me why you didn't recognize the trope immeaditly as it's all over books, films and games.
Kenshin Sephiroth wrote:Eva is an interesting example to use, as that's a series that actually explains a lot of its ideas, and doesn't simply use the assumed workings of its world to tell an entertaining story. If you take robot physics out of Evangelion you still have a compelling drama rich in character and themes; do the same with The Cat Returns, i.e. remove the conveniently mysterious voice, the portals, the brash happenings and reckless character decisions, and you have nothing but noise signifying nothing. You also have Haru stranded at the beginning of the plot with nowhere to go, and no way for the cats to enter our realm. Had the story of TCR actually been
good, I wouldn't have minded its disregard for logic as much (after all, Terminator 2 has some serious logical fallacies, but it makes up for that in being a tremendous movie), but as its flaws were compounded by boring stuff happening to a bland protagonist I see little reason for letting it off the hook, and I just think the flick needs to be called out on its bullshit.
Quality of the story or compellingness of its characters are separate issue when it comes to how much the setting strictly speaking "makes sense" (in other news I don't consider rationally constructed setting necessary or always even preferrable, ambiguous and arbitrary dream can be fantastic) and Eva is very guilty of being full of bullshit and then never properly explaining it. Which is perfectly fine and not flaw at all in my eyes but then again, I don't demand minute explanations for things that don't really matter.
Kenshin Sephiroth wrote:This is also the reason I dislike a lot of Miyazaki's films, and agree with ANN's Justin Sevakis when he says that Prinsesse Mononoke was the last of his films that was "about something".
Sevakis said that?
>ANN beside, Justin says the darnest things - and that is incredibly stupid thing to say in light of Spirited Away being the most honest and clearly written x in Wonderland narrative of his whole career that has more than a few themes it touches in somewhat traditional manner. Howl is Miyazaki's weakest and slightly incoherent in structure in its final third but it too is explicitly "about something". Even the genuinely creative in style/"original" (loloriginality) Ponyo in all of its pure whimsy is about quite few things.
There's being full of shit and then this as Miyazaki's style didn't change much between Mononoke-Howl period. Ponyo is the first clear break from what came before both stylistically and storywise
Kenshin Sephiroth wrote:For a film which accomplishes both of these things, see Masaaki Yuasa's Mind Game.
Mind Game is phenomenal and one of my favourites but it's hardly a coherent, tightly focused film. It's zany, jerky creative explosion that is all over the place in terms of focus and story which is one reason why it is so fantastic and vivid film. It's not kind of film I'd use when arguing about
consistency with its regular self-absorbed fantasy vignettes, crazy story twists out of nowhere and animation style that is as hectic and jumpy as the story and its characters.
Azathoth wrote:also, implying lotr doesn't explain (albeit never very straightforwardly) why the one ring makes you invisible
It di? I read the book about...what, 10-20 times as teenager but it's been long time since I last read it. Can't really remember this getting explained
Azathoth wrote:you should have used one of the old great questions. such as, if Frodo hung the ring on a chain, why didn't the
chain turn invisible?
heh, yeah. For that particular issue I'd presume it works only with living creatures or then even more specifically
if used like a ring but clearly because Tolkien never properly explained this the story sucks and is full of holes as relevant information is kept from the reader. :P
even more horrifyingly Tolkien never sets any clear rules for magic or carefully define its nature* which is unforgivably ambiguous storytelling
*and thank god for that, for me air of mystery and certain degree of incomprehensibility is important for the magic to actually come off as magic. Le Guin's true name system is good, all the p&p game stat and later computer game influenced magical systems feel lackluster to me.
Nasuverse is quite interesting for me in its attempt to get it all by separating magic (gamelike system of abilities and effects) and sorcery (reason transcending ability to create downright miracles) from each other