See post #153 above; she wasn't serious about Pen-Pen! Now, Shinji, on the other hand...Ark wrote:I still can't believe Misato wanted to ride Shinji and Pen2.
Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:07 GMT
Magami No ER wrote:I do. Kaworu was a loving friend.....done
Reichu wrote:Mr Tines, are you ignoring me?
Reichu wrote:I feel very much the same way whenever Mr. Tines makes a post. Hell, even if I understand all of the individual words, I still feel like I'm translating from another language.
Reichu wrote:If Misato did not have "impure" intentions, then please explain this scene.
I should mention that the part with Misato in the folding chair, going on about wanting to digrace herself, is not contiguous with the other part, which does unfold in the sequence shown (#23 flashback, Misato's expression of self-hatred, and Maya/Ritsuko/Asuka's reaction of disgust).Mr. Tines wrote:I think it depends where mentally you put the punctuation into the sequence - before or after the Shinji cut : like the opposite meanings that can be applied to the string "Woman without her man is nothing" by different choices in punctuation. I'd parsed this as
Character (seated unmoving on folding chair): Self-evaluation (or self-justification)
Chorus (using as much recycled footage as possible): Reponse
and quite honestly hadn't considered parsing it in any other fashion.
Mr. Tines wrote:Besides, you so often throw out references to extended threads that need at least some extended attention - and often point to other threads recursively - that a measured response takes time. And given that you also stated
Shin-seiki wrote:See post #153 above; she wasn't serious about Pen-Pen! Now, Shinji, on the other hand...
Reichu wrote:If Misato did not have "impure" intentions, then please explain this scene
EDIT: As overwhelmingly skeptical as I am, the fact that you keep on taunting us with this massive revelation of yours is making me somewhat masochistically curious. (I'm sure that's what you wanted, right?)
Shin-seiki wrote:I should mention that the part with Misato in the folding chair, going on about wanting to digrace herself, is not contiguous with the other part, which does unfold in the sequence shown (#23 flashback, Misato's expression of self-hatred, and Maya/Ritsuko/Asuka's reaction of disgust).
Shin-seiki wrote:I should mention that the part with Misato in the folding chair, going on about wanting to digrace herself, is not contiguous with the other part, which does unfold in the sequence shown (#23 flashback, Misato's expression of self-hatred, and Maya/Ritsuko/Asuka's reaction of disgust).
I find it little hard to comprehend how A (Misato's overtures to Shinji in #23) and B (the other female characters telling her that she's a disgusting *****) are immediately juxtaposed, so that just about anyone would conclude that B is a reaction to A (in Instrumentality, everyone's secrets are revealed, note how in #26', Asuka becomes aware of Shinji's faptastical behavior while she was in a coma in #25'), yet, for some reason, you persist in denying the patently obvious logical progression (A > B)Mr. Tines wrote:No wonder I had never thought to group the flashback with the desire for degradation - I confess not to have committed the entire Intrumentality sequence to memory so hadn't spotted the discontinuity.
I'm with Knives on this one : it's everybody detesting Misato (herself included) time.
Knives wrote:So it's sex with Shinji, but just petting and no tongue with Pen^2 ... riight.
Again, as I've stated before when this evidence has come up, this so-called retort against it is unreasonable and simply ignoring the facts.
Now I'm worried my theory's gonna be crap and I'm gonna be chased outta here with pitchforks and torches.
I defend much of my theory through progressive logic (such as is the case with the "S^1" organ theory and the "No ATF does not equal LCL" theory [which {after finding further evidence on your own — granted} you seem to be in agreement on now]).
But I will do my best to satisfy all blood lusts in regards to that topic, for I feel it is essential .
Knives wrote:... Why do you all post so much while I'm sleeping ?
It makes it so hard to respond.
Reichu wrote:So you're saying she really DID want to boink Pen^2?
Reichu wrote:I'm just skeptical that you've managed to come up with something that fits better than what we have now . . . (If there was something flagrantly wrong with what we've been batting around, I should have gotten at least a whiff of it by now.)
Reichu wrote:then there was our old friend Fuzzy Chickens, who seems to be more like your type of bloke, although, I hesitate to say, you seem marginally more reasonable...
Reichu wrote:You simply take things a bit further and attach a name to the "SOMEhow".
Shin-seiki wrote:I find it little hard to comprehend how A (Misato's overtures to Shinji in #23) and B (the other female characters telling her that she's a disgusting *****) are immediately juxtaposed, so that just about anyone would conclude that B is a reaction to A, yet, for some reason, you persist in denying the patently obvious logical progression (A > B)
Shin-seiki wrote:BTW, I mentioned this in one of the other threads on this topic, but I shall reiterate: The Newtype Filmbook for #23 states flat out that Misato was offering her body to Shinji in that scene...
Mr. Tines wrote:Extra-textual material (as cited below) aside, it still comes back to being a chunking issue - is there or is there not a logical punctutation between Shinji's rejection of Misato and all the others.
We see enough other reasons for her most important colleagues to level such accusations, saying out plain what is said in a more circumspect manner in other earlier sequences (Ritsuko vis-a-vis the week in bed with Kaji, Misato herself in ep 12, the denoument of the elevator scene in ep 11) that it is less than obvious that these are supposed to be reactions to the Shinji cut rather than being other parallel responses of the various characters to Misato in general, starting with Shinji as he's the lead character. After all, it's not as if you'd expect him to make the same sort of declamatory reaction as the others do.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the negative words of the others directed at Misato ("Impure! Pathetic! Disgusting *****!") are not necessarily related to the #23 flashback, then WHY is the #23 scene referenced in this sequence at all?! If Ritsuko and the others aren't reacting to it, the #23 flashback is just hanging there with no meaningful connection to anything else in that scene!Mr. Tines wrote:Extra-textual material (as cited below) aside, it still comes back to being a chunking issue - is there or is there not a logical punctutation between Shinji's rejection of Misato and all the others.
We see enough other reasons for her most important colleagues to level such accusations, saying out plain what is said in a more circumspect manner in other earlier sequences (Ritsuko vis-a-vis the week in bed with Kaji, Misato herself in ep 12, the denoument of the elevator scene in ep 11) that it is less than obvious that these are supposed to be reactions to the Shinji cut rather than being other parallel responses of the various characters to Misato in general, starting with Shinji as he's the lead character. After all, it's not as if you'd expect him to make the same sort of declamatory reaction as the others do.
Shin-seiki wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but if the negative words of the others directed at Misato ("Impure! Pathetic! Disgusting *****!") are not necessarily related to the #23 flashback, then WHY is the #23 scene referenced in this sequence at all?! If Ritsuko and the others aren't reacting to it, the #23 flashback is just hanging there with no relevance to anything else in that scene!
BZZT! Wrong! There is no "dialog"; Misato's line is skipped, and Shinji just says what he says in the original...Knives wrote:... First of all, as I recall, it's not a flashback.
That's your first mistake.
Different dialogue takes place between them.
I very well could be wrong, but I'm 90% certain of this.
... Again, I suppose I'll verify this once I review it tonight.
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