Shinji's Sexuality

[Reichu [ANF]]

I had a strange feeling this topic would prove irresistable to forum-goers. ;;p

I think he was more frightened of GNR because it was a inital reaction to seeing a giant face breathing heavily with half of the face showing the brains and eyeball.(whf was that for anyway?)

You're getting two separate scenes mixed up. The "brains and an eyeball" bit is EVA-09 (whose cranium had been split open by Kyoko-sama) looking at Shinji after her, er, transformation, leading to Shinji screaming quite loudly (yet again), Yui-sama screaming at the same time, and her core emerging from the material that normally covers it. Later on, we see GNR split into the GNR-GNK conglomerate being in order to calm Shinji down, which is, for some enigmatic reason, necessary to fuse the Spear with Yui-sama. Watch this part of the movie again; it will make more sense that way.

Personally, I don't think bisexuality is at all strange. The way I see it, being able to think of other members of the same sex erotically is just an extension of being able to view YOURSELF in such a manner. Alternatively, all forms of eroticism might be considered as being in the same ballpark, and issues of which genders are involved becomes kind of moot; sex is sex. I'm really going off on a tangent there... though I do prescribe to the notion that "we're all a little gay".

Isn't it explicitly stated that he was delibrately drawn in a manner more typical of anime girls?

This is in the OP Commentary; take a look. I should definitely add this drawing by Sadamoto that I recently found, as it makes the Nadia-->Shinji evolution all the more explicit.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 23:05 GMT

[PronsAmuro [ANF]]

Shinji is gay. I can tell. They hint at it.

- Prons.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 23:06 GMT

[Charred Knight [ANF]]

Since when was Shinji ever good at knowing what he wants? Every time he has a 'romantic encounter' with a girl, or any form of pseudo-sexual contact,
it has a tendancy to end in disaster, or in Shinji being called some variety of idiot. It's always been my opinion that he is in denial. Heterosexuality is the default, and it is what most people will start life under the assumption that they are.

Shinji is repeatedly represented through the course of the series as an effeminate type of boy, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it does go towards suggesting that Anno had something of this nature in mind. I have lots more that I'd like to say, but unfortunately, that'll have to wait until probably tomorrow, when I have had chance to marshal my thoughts.

You are clearly trying to push your ideal Shinji as fact.

Shinji chocked his damn chicken to a woman, if your gay you don't masturbate to women, you maturbate to men because you find them sexually attractive, that what makes you gay.

He didn't spank the monkey to Kaworu, your looking into something that is not their. He didn't sexualize him like he did Asuka, the movie didn't end with Shinji and Kaworu on a beach. He didn't fantasize about Kaworu hating him. Their is almost no proof that his gay, and you are delusional.

Go back to Gravitation if you want Yaoi because your not going to get it in EVA.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 23:21 GMT

[Aoshi_Shinomori [ANF]]

You are clearly trying to push your ideal Shinji as fact.

Shinji chocked his damn chicken to a woman, if your gay you don't masturbate to women, you maturbate to men because you find them sexually attractive, that what makes you gay.

He didn't spank the monkey to Kaworu, your looking into something that is not their. He didn't sexualize him like he did Asuka, the movie didn't end with Shinji and Kaworu on a beach. He didn't fantasize about Kaworu hating him. Their is almost no proof that his gay, and you are delusional.

Go back to Gravitation if you want Yaoi because your not going to get it in EVA.

I 2nd that!

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 23:25 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Kawrou's envisions on humanity were beggining to expand beyond the 'enemy-factor' that the majority of Angels held towards them as a speceis, and so I think his emotional passion for Shinji is more a representation of this.

I would be rather wary of lumping Kaworu in with the other Angels. Kaworu has had the advantage of living among humans as a human (while, at the same time, being aware of his true identity).

When it boils down to Shinji's sexuality though, I dont think one can associate it with something as black or white as 'homosexuality' or 'hetrosexuality' as I think his attraction to Asuka is merely skin deep, and his love for Kawrou is obvious through the fact that they had a bond on a higher, more deeper level.

I think it's probably telling that even after Shinji gets to enjoy Instrumentality with both Asuka and Kaworu -- being able to check out their souls, up-close and personal, and transcending any sort of "skin-deep" superficiality -- the former is the one whom he wants and need. Kaworu was just kind of a "Band-aid", who happened to show up at the right time and say the right things, leading to a sort of "one-night stand" of emotional intimacy between them that was doomed to be short-lived.

I should point out that the supposed "depth" of their bond was entirely one-way. When all was said and done, Shinji had a good "babbling boy" (a nice guy who will just sit there and let you vent, while asking for nothing in return ), but Kaworu was no more than a comforting face that issued a plethora comforting philosophical banter. He was not someone Shinji knew anything about as a person. Was there even any indication that Shinji truly cared about Kaworu as a person? He was useful to Shinji's fragile heart, and that was all.

On the other hand, despite the flagrant imperfection of Shinji and Asuka's relationship, it is, at least, two-sided. Despite the abuses, despite the fact that they have both seen the worst of one another, they have also shared good times. They come from similar backgrounds. And, when it comes down to it, they need one another -- mutually. There are a number of good threads about the Shinji-Asuka issue, which Shin-seiki could perhaps direct everyone to when he has a moment... That is more his area than mine.

Shinji chocked his damn chicken to a woman, if your gay you don't masturbate to women, you maturbate to men because you find them sexually attractive, that what makes you gay.

Watch it there. With the borderline inflammatory nature of your words, the only thing you seem to be proving here is your own lack of security in the area of sexuality.

In real life, sexuality is not black-and-white. Many people are not certain about what they truly want and what they truly find attractive; least of all, adolescents as psychologically fux0red-up as Shinji. Also, need I remind you, there are plenty of males who have married and fathered children before realizing that their true inclinations lie with their own sex.

This is a debate. If Soluzar is wrong, provide substantial evidence, not your own parochial views on sexuality. And do it without making insinuations that he somehow "wants" NGE to be a yaoi anime, because he is not saying anything of the sort.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 23:33 GMT

[thewayneiac [ANF]]

I think it can be argued - He flinches from Misato's contact (after ReiII's death?), yet later accepts Kaoru's identical gesture in the shower scene with just a blush.

He flinches from Misato because he sees her as a surrogate mother, (see the sandbox scene), and the idea that she would be interested in him sexually freaks him out. There's no reason to think from this scene that he's not interested in women.

As for GNR vs GNK - isn't that after Shinji's already admitted being scared of (normal size) Ayanami? - and now she's miles tall.

Exactly. He's glad to see Kaworu because he finds him non-threatening, not because he's attracted to him. Also he not only admits being scared of Rei, he also admits being scared of Misato (see above).

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 23:57 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

On the other hand, despite the flagrant imperfection of Shinji and Asuka's relationship, it is, at least, two-sided. Despite the abuses, despite the fact that they have both seen the worst of one another, they have also shared good times. They come from similar backgrounds.

It depends what you're emphasising as important similarity - Asuka was raised as a NERV (if not SEELE) insider, has been through college, a general high-tension, focus-of-attention upbringing; Shinji was just parked somewhere where he had some fairly unremarkable, and seemingly sheltered life. I get a distinct whiff of de facto upper class vs lower middle in their interactions.

But then I already had my say on the Asuka/Shinji issue.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 00:00 GMT

[Charred Knight [ANF]]

Watch it there. With the borderline inflammatory nature of your words, the only thing you seem to be proving here is your own lack of security in the area of sexuality.

In real life, sexuality is not black-and-white. Many people are not certain about what they truly want and what they truly find attractive; least of all, adolescents as psychologically fux0red-up as Shinji. Also, need I remind you, there are plenty of males who have married and fathered children before realizing that their true inclinations lie with their own sex.

This is a debate. If Soluzar is wrong, provide substantial evidence, not your own parochial views on sexuality. And do it without making insinuations that he somehow "wants" NGE to be a yaoi anime, because he is not saying anything of the sort.

Thats not that inflammatory, I could have said worse things, but didn't because I don't know Soluzar's sex and Soluzar's sexuality. I called Soluzar delusional, because Soluzar is ignoring the rest of EoE just so it can fit in with his/her idea.

A gay man that marries a woman, marries her to fit in(if he found her sexually attractive that would make him bi-sexual), im pretty sure that this wasn't the thoughts of Shinji during the masturbation scene.

"Hey look I see Asuka's nipples, I don't find her sexually attractive, but to fit in with the views of Japanese society, I will jack off."

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 00:26 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

The''brains and an eyeball bit''bit is EVA-09(whose cranium had been split open by Kyoko-sama) looking at Shinji after her,er,transformation...

Oh, I would have never guessed that was Eva-09. I will rewatch it, seeing as I get many things confused with this movie,though much of them are resovled after reading every Eva theard months before joining.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 01:13 GMT

[Headcrab [ANF]]

this is kinda similar to the ongoing debate that Samwise and Frodo from The Lord of the Rings were homosexual, but that isn't the case, since Sam and Frodo were partners and friends. So this kind of debate is not new at all.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 01:39 GMT

[Springymajig [ANF]]

Love comes in many forms. It's not just "sexual attraction" love or "love like a friend". One can fall in love with someone, in a romantic sense, without it being "sexual". Also, I think the love between one and one's friends is ALSO different to say, the love between one and one's parents/family.

I think a lot of people posting in this thread (but not all!) are simplifying things too much... and only saying "no! There's no sexual attraction!" and "yes! He loves him! He's sexualy attracted!"



Personally.... I haven't watched Evangelion enough to be certain.... but I think that Shinji's love for Kaworu is more than just on the level of like.... "friends"... eeerrr... this is hard to explain. Like... I don't think Shinji is gay, but I still think he loves Kaworu like... umm... that. Like, if he was a girl, he MIGHT actually persue a romantic relationship. But becuase Kaworu is a guy.... Shinji feels differently. I really don't know... I'm not explaining myself well.. I'm just basing this on my own personal feelings. Not that I've ever loved a guy like that... but yeah.



The point I'm trying to make is that Shinji's love for Kaworu doesn't necessarily have to mean anything sexual, but still be deeper than the love of a friend..... or something.

I feel illiterate on this forum you guys are so articulate and smart.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 03:25 GMT

[TheBystander [ANF]]

Personally, I think Shinji freaked out at GNR because he saw all of the Rei clones liquify before his eyes. We already know that he remembers that whenever he sees Rei; and I don't know about you, but thinking of that would turn me off, especially if I were confronted with a giant Destroyer of Worlds who looks just like the clones.

Personally, I don't think Shinji is gay, just extremely confused. All the women in his life either reject him, or confuse him; only Kaworu showed him anything resembling love. Also, you have to realize that when Shinji saw GNK, he was more-or-less insane. He saw Asuka's 'death', he saw GNR, he saw the Production Evas turn into versions of Rei... I'd say that he'd snapped. In fact, don't they say that his 'ego borderline has dropped' or something?

Either way, after seeing Kaworu, Shinji calmed down... maybe he was just happy to see someone who he didn't consider a threat? Shinji could have just said "screw it, at least he's not melting, or trying to eat me".

Then again, there is some evidence that he might, in fact, be homosexual. This discussion is reminding me of my English lectures about Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. People might want to look into that play, as it might bring some light into this argument.

(One last thing: while I may not believe that Shinji is gay, there are other anime characters that I'm not so sure about... Guts, from Berserk, is one of them. The line between homosexual and heterosexual is sometimes really hard to read; anyways, this is getting OT, so I'll stop here.)

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 03:58 GMT

[Knives [ANF]]

He flinches from Misato because he sees her as a surrogate mother, (see the sandbox scene), and the idea that she would be interested in him sexually freaks him out. There's no reason to think from this scene that he's not interested in women.

Garh!!
I read someone (possibly you wayneiac) saying this in an old thread but decided not to reply (given that it was an old dead topic), but since it's reared it's ugly head again, I feel it is my duty to address it (especially seeing as last time it came up, no one said anything — which would seem to suggest people are in agreement on the matter).

How in the world do you interpret this scene as sexual? I think you need to have some drastic re-examination of this scene. Physical contact does not equate to sexual contact.

I don't know what else to say other than that. There's nothing sexual suggested in this scene.

By your reasoning that's like suggesting she wanted to get it on with Pen-Pen (if you recall, as soon as Shinji rejects her, she goes to Pen^2 looking for physical contact).

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 04:54 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

The whole notion about Misato coming onto Shinji sexually has been rather convincingly demonstrated in previous threads. If you reject the notion that that is what Misato is up to in #23, you're ignoring everything else in the series that implies that she IS. I was able to find this one, since I remembered our old buddy Rah participating. It's a pretty tired topic, but if you want to argue about it, just bump that thread, I say.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 05:21 GMT

[Soluzar [ANF]]

Thats not that inflammatory, I could have said worse things, but didn't because I don't know Soluzar's sex and Soluzar's sexuality. I called Soluzar delusional, because Soluzar is ignoring the rest of EoE just so it can fit in with his/her idea.

I don't really have the time for a full-on post of my thoughts right now, but I just had to respond to this. For the record, I'm a male, and I don't feel that my orientation is the issue here. You could have said worse things? That's nothing to be proud of. I'm not trying to fit Shinji in with any ideal of mine, and nor do I think that his orientation is a straightforward issue. The events of both the movie and the series do seem to me to indicate that Shinji is a boy dealing with some very complex issues in this area, and I honestly can't say that when I started to discuss this topic that I expected a response of this nature.

I'm quite dissapointed to come back to find this, and really it has taken away a lot of my appetite for debate on this issue. Thank you, Reichu, for your kind words on my behalf.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 05:22 GMT

[Knives [ANF]]

The whole notion about Misato coming onto Shinji sexually has been rather convincingly demonstrated in previous threads. If you reject the notion that that is what Misato is up to in #23, you're ignoring everything else in the series that implies that she IS. I was able to find this one, since I remembered our old buddy Rah participating. It's a pretty tired topic, but if you want to argue about it, just bump that thread, I say.

I'll probably raise it at a later date (too many other good discussions at the moment ).
1.) It's not as "convincingly" demonstrated as you suggest [it ignores important lines and scenes for the sake of others].
2.) The only evidence supplied in said thread takes place from episode 23 and beyond.
3.) Suggesting it's a "tired" topic ignores the importance of fully understanding the characters, their intentions and their thoughts.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 05:44 GMT

[tv33 [ANF]]

I'll probably raise it at a later date (too many other good discussions at the moment ).
1.) It's not as "convincingly" demonstrated as you suggest [it ignores important lines and scenes for the sake of others].
2.) The only evidence supplied in said thread takes place from episode 23 and beyond.
3.) Suggesting it's a "tired" topic ignores the importance of fully understanding the characters, their intentions and their thoughts.

Are you kidding me!? Did you see the first post on the third page? Shin-seiki lays it out rather clearly. I mean, how else could that scene in EoTV be interpreted?

He flinches from Misato because he sees her as a surrogate mother, (see the sandbox scene), and the idea that she would be interested in him sexually freaks him out. There's no reason to think from this scene that he's not interested in women.

I agree, Shinji was smart enough to know exactly what Mistao was looking for. And I think most 14 year olds would be a little freaked out if a person twice their age tried to get into their pants.

Having only just meet Kaworu a few hours before, I think his motives are not as clear. And Shinji does have a bit of a "WTF?" look on his face. As for why the two of them hit it off so well is that by the end of the series Shinji is like those crazy people on the public bus, he will talk to anyone who will listen. Kaworu was also very perceptive, and was good at reading Shinji. He was straight forward with him, and not "hiding behind a smile".

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 06:36 GMT

[Shin-seiki [ANF]]

Here is a thread where we kick around the topic of what Misato is up to in #23, (at least on the last page):
http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153229

This post, in particular, represents my most definitive formulation of the evidence so far:
http://animenation.net/forums/showp...73&postcount=37

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 09:23 GMT

[Crazy Penguin [ANF]]

By your reasoning that's like suggesting she wanted to get it on with Pen-Pen (if you recall, as soon as Shinji rejects her, she goes to Pen^2 looking for physical contact).

And Pen-Pen shows no interest in her, but notice that he's almost always around when Shinji is naked. It's obvious that Pen-Pen is gay and has a thing for Shinji.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 14:13 GMT

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

After rewatching EoE (at 3:00am in the morning) I noticed something that has strengthened my belief that Shinji is not gay and doesn't love him in any sexual way, but loves him for being such a kind friend and quite pretty himself. Right after you see Yui asking Shinji "What is it you wish for?",and her head kinda disapears,you see a large shot of Asuka's breasts, and I know it's Asuka because you can see the ends of her hair. Then Shinji's face is a blurry and becomes water, a childhood memory of his is shown, and then he and Asuka are in bed together. He lust after her even in that situation. That's my final opinion.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 15:10 GMT