My Eva TV Ending Journal Or Something

Notable old Evangelion threads from the AnimeNation Forums are preserved here.

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:13 pm

OMF wrote:It would seem that dispite her own unwillingness to enter into a relationship with her stepmother(10) Asuka still desperately desired it.(11)



Given that we flash back now to her natural mother, it's not so conclusively clear which of them Asuka's plea is directed at.


OMF wrote:A very unexpected comment from Asuka come up next!(8) Asuka never struck me as the kind of girl looking for someone to protect her. She always seemed the type to resent anyone having to come to her aid.



I get the impression that she is tired to the marrow of the effort she has had to make to keep on going. Only here in complementation, is she actually prepared to admit that she would rather have not taken up her burden.

OMF wrote:Strange that she, the lonelinest of people, would have rejected complementation then. Or was it simply Shinji she rejected?



She didn't have a say in Complementation. Shinji was the one who did, and he crashed that system, leaving her an isolated indivdual once again within the LCL sea.

OMF wrote:Very interesting dialouge from Shinji (1), Misato(2) and Asuka(3) here. Misato and Asuka's lines are the very words Shinji cries so desperately to Asuka in EoE.



Here, the "Don't kill me!" makes much more sense as Asuka's line, implicitly to her mother

Originally posted on: 19-May-2005, 21:43 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Ok I've finally had time to get around to episode #26 and boy, whew. I mean, where do I start. I guess I'll just pick out anything that catches my eye amind the myriad of images and dialouge that flash by.

Well here's the first one(1). I wonder were they alluding to the lack of funds, rather than time, or was it both. In any case, we move on to Shinji (2).
Image
Shinji's problems with rejection from others is brought up again and again in this sequence. His issues are really spelled out one by one by the others in complementation(3). Shinji's anger at Misato here has echoes of his frustrated tirade in EoE for me(4). Is he really just sick of her attempts to help him here as well?

Well, I guess the meaning of all those loney ball images is explained here(5). They were lonely... I figured that! :E
This one is interesting(6). Reminds me a hell of a lot of the smashed Nerv coffee cup in EoE #26', though I also have a feeling I've seen it somewhere else. Can't place where though. More concurrency evidence?

Image
Moving on, In (1) and (2) here we have one of many parallels drawn between Shinji and Asuka. Again Asuka's confidence and Shinji's uncertainty contrasted here.

The sandbox image here(3) obviously stirs memories of the EoE "sandcastle" sandbox. Shinji's word here pretty much sum up his feelings in that scene as well. Concurrency?

Ah, the first of the photgraphic images here? Is this a cinematic decision, or a budget one? It seems to me that drawing these pictures as still would not have taken all that long? Perhaps I'm wrong. Nonetheless these pictures have undertones of Shinji's made up cinema world in #26'.

Again we have another parallel drawn between Asuka and Shinji(5)-(6). This one is an exact symmetry, apart from "boku" and "wataschi" differences. It's clear that these two have their very identities tied to the concept of being a pilot.
Image
And as if it wasn't clear enough for Shinji, the matter is put beyond doubt. He considers his life to have been meaningless without the Eva(1) He's piloting for praise(2), for recognition, love perhaps? Might one say that Shinji "plays at piloting to get love"? Is the act itself of no interest to him?

And here we have the downside of Shinji's reliance of the Eva for his identity. Piloting, or perhaps the Eva itself, is consuming Shinji(3)-(4), it is becoming his entire world. We've all heard tales of people who become their jobs, but in Shinji's case it might go a little deeper. Shinji's donning of the mantle of Eva to strike at Gendou in #20 might be what they are trying to get across here.

Finally another parallel drawn between the pilots. (5)-(6). It would seem that Asuka has realised her dilemma here, different from her worrying in #25. Is this set after her recovery in #25' perhaps? Is this where her new understanding of herself has come from?

On to the next section. Rest assured at the time of posting, I haven't gone beyond the mid episode title. ANTICIPATION!!!

Originally posted on: 23-May-2005, 00:16 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Sort of like me and this forum. Image

Originally posted on: 23-May-2005, 00:44 GMT

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Postby Lastie [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Can't wait for the next slice OMF.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2005, 09:13 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Onward we go! Once again, I'll post whatever catches my eye out of the collage of images flashed past here.

Shinji(1), Rei(2) and Asuka(3) moods are all summed up here by images of nature. Nice touch. I wonder if one should apply this to the times of day literally during the series. In other words, would Rei be even more sullen in the evening, or Asuka more hostile in the morning? Echoes of Rei's poem in episode #14 here (4). I wonder.
Image
Yet another Shinji and Asuka parallel drawn here. (5)-(6). This time it's to do with their parents, who they seem to both reject. The reasons are different (7)-(8), but somewhat similar. Each is afraid of the possible outcome of their attempts to engage their parents. Shinji fears abandonment, Asuka death. "Don't forsake me" and "Don't kill me" explained?

Again the titles ask questions and give answers.(1),(2). But who are they asking. Are both Shinji AND Asuka being quizzed here? Is this the purpose of the parallels. To show us that both Shinji and Asuka are being interrogated?
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Shinji declares here that he's been piloting to prove himself,(3) and to show he is nessesary(4). But to who? Though we see an image of Gendou, is Shinji still seeking his acceptance? Or is Gendou mearly a symbol of rejection for him?

Yet another A/S parallel (5)-(6). There really are a lot of them. Asuka really would seem to be the antithesis of Shinji. His counterfoil if you will, who though different, slips into the same pitfalls as he does.

Whoah! What's going on here?(1) This whole sequence following makes me think of some kind of deconstructionism, where Shinji must erase all else to kind out who he is(2). Is this his erasure of humanity in EoE, echoed here?
Image
Funny how Asuka's words here(3), are so similar to his words to her in pre Third impact instrumentality.
The following black and white sketches, put me in mind of Chuck Jones' , "Duck Amuck". The entire world is a product of the thoughts of "the animator". Starting as nothing(4), we gradually add concrete restrictions to this free world(5). Significant that Gendou makes the first restriction, no?
The idea of the first line being the division between heaven and earth(6), might give this whole scene undertones of a creation myth of some kind. Shinji is trying to create a world in which he can be happy perhaps?

But it appears he won't succeed. His mind is a product of it's interaction with reality(1). Without others to act as counterfoils, he can't truely exist at all.(2) It seems running away isn't helping.
Image
Shinji now seems to realise his dilemma(3). The world he wanted, just himself alone, isn't what he really wants at all.
Is this some kind of hint as to why someones mother must be in the Eva here(4). Not much of a one anyway.
Moving on. Shinji finally accepts that he needs others to exist(5). I wonder is Asuka's following rebuke(6) another reference to her frustration at his not needing or accepting her? perhaps she might be hopeful.

Heart in mouth. Look like the next sequence is the "alternate universe" scene i've heard so much about! Can't wait to finally see this for myself! The final revelation? Last crusade? Will I be able to close the book on Eva?.... Probably not. To infinity....

Originally posted on: 23-May-2005, 12:23 GMT

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Postby RyoTD [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:13 pm

Intresting... I guess EoTV was better than I thought.

May the spork be with you, dude.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2005, 16:31 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

OMF wrote:Again we have another parallel drawn between Asuka and Shinji(5)-(6). This one is an exact symmetry, apart from "boku" and "wataschi" differences.



Even in extremis, Asuka is not arrogating the more masculine form to herself.

OMF wrote:Echoes of Rei's poem in episode #14 here (4)



I was sure we saw this again as well as in #4 and #14...

OMF wrote:Shinji fears abandonment, Asuka death. "Don't forsake me" and "Don't kill me" explained?



I would say that was fairly self-explanatory; he had been abandoned, she saw the doll vicariously slain in her stead.

OMF wrote:Again the titles ask questions and give answers.(1),(2). But who are they asking.



Everyone - that is the Human Condition. Asuka and Shinji are just articular instances. Are there not moments when you yourself could have answered similarly, wondered what the point of going on is?

OMF wrote:counterfoils



[Inigo Montoya]I do not think that word means what you think it means.[/Inigo Montoya]

OMF wrote:Moving on. Shinji finally accepts that he needs others to exist



Humans are social animals. We use speech (or web-based forum software Image) rather than picking parasites out of each others' pelts.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2005, 19:16 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

The penultimate post. I hope this has been entertaining so far. Now onto the scene I keep hearing about, but had never expierienced before today. The Neon Genesis Evangelion Alternate Reality Sequence. Most sci-fi shows do something like this every now and again, so I suppose it was Evangelions time! :E

We begin with another of Shinji's "night terror" awakenings(1). This one is extreamly similar to his awakening in EoE, in the sea of LCL. There Shinji had also made the realisation that the world he's created wasn't what he thought it would be. This awakening shot is used all over the place in Eva I suppose. Sort of a "did that just happen" moment as well.

We start off with shots of Shinji's room in this world.(2) It's interesting how everything in this scene is so much more colorful and vibrant than the regular Tokyo-3. This whole place is permeated with a happier aura it seems. Or was Tokyo-3 simply beset with a miasma?
Also note that Shinji has a poster of a bikini girl on his dresser! This place is different indeed. The first hint I think, that the Shinji here is not the one we have so far known.

This Shinji is also a lazier one than we have known as well(3). I also doubt that the regular Shinji would have been quite so nonchalant about Asuka stomping into his room first thing in the morning.
Asuka seem however, to be as abrasive as usual at least(4).
Image
Ummm?(5) Eh?(6) What!?(7) Ohhhhh...(8)
Well what did she expect to get from barging into someones room first thing in the morning? Also, look! There's PenPen!(8)

What are you doing here!?!(1) And Yui as well! Yui comes across as a much less patient person than her more familiar persona. A bit of a nagger too. I'm affronted! I guess this is what having children does to people, though she didn't seem too bad when Shinji was small. Too much exposure to Asuka?
And as for you!(2) Gendou is here! I don't think this is the same individual though. And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts he's not wearing his glasses either. This paper seems to be hinting at the transformation of the antarctic base to a tourist attraction. A very alternate universe indeed.
I also find it noteworthy that we do not see Gendou or Yui's faces here. Does this have some significant meaning? Shinji never knew what his mother looked like after all, and Gendou's face was never anything but cold and stern.

How cheerful. It would seem that Shinji lives in the same Tokyo-3 apartment block here too(3), and other people do as well! This world is considerably more cheerful than the bleak regular one.
Note also! There are no cicadas! Significant, no?
Image
Yes, Asuka is still herself. Abusive as ever(4). And Shinji seems as usual, all too submissive to her whims.
She's still interested in him here though(5), and he's still as oblivious as ever. Interesting that Shinji even says something like this. This is certainly a different boy.
He's not the only one who's different. Rei is not the girl we knew either(6). The use of Asuka's country music theme here only emphasises how different she is.

Shinji's desk here I'm presuming, and Asuka's handwriting(1). I wonder what the scribbled out text is though? If I had to guess, I'd say it might be a list of girls names perhaps? Asuka will brook no rivals!
Shinji?! Giving insights on others(2)?! Truely this is another world.
Kensuke gets a fairly long shot here,(3) accommpanied by his wearied comment. I wonder about his role here. Again the insightful observer? I'm developing a new perspective on what Kensuke represents, but that's for another time..
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Shinji! Lecherous as the rest(4)!? I suppose a happy upbringing has a least allowed him to be a regular teenager.

Misato sensei? How corny is this(5). Still I suppose she need to be put somewhere, though how a secondary school teacher gets away with dressing like she does is beyond me. Is this Misato searching for a more captive man as well!? :E

Rei is introduced, and again we can see that she's not the Rei we're used to(6). Much more Asuka-ish. Here we laspe back into the storyboard art. Money dried up this soon?

It would seem that Asuka's animosity for Rei spans the entire multiverse(1)! Asuka/Rei shippers take careful note!
Misato is a least, flippant as ever(2). Does this class actually get anything done between oogling her, and laughing at her, likely risque, wise cracks!

Amid the following laughter, this idilic world fades away as Shinji realises what might have been.(3) I think this alternate universe is just that. A utopia that might have been, a shard of the multiverse so to speak. I don't think this is a conjuring of the minds in complementation. Rather it is a place apart and those we see there are not the unhappy souls of the fortress city Tokyo-3. At least, I think they aren't.
Image
The realisation of the possibility of such a happy life has reached Shinji(4). (Is he reading the class roster here?) He has seen what might be, and realised what might yet be(5). The Tokyo-3 here look like a minature on a table. Can't read too much into that though.

Anyway, I think Shinji has gained a source of hope from the alternate reality. Hope that he can escape from the hell of piloting and Tokyo-3(6) and yet continue to be someone who is somebody. There is a Shinji out there who is happy, who can like himself. This is an important realisation for him.

Just to let you know, I have watched the final scene. It's quite a show, and I'll be posting all my thoughts on it soon. 'Till then, enjoy the screenies!

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 01:08 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

I had never notced Gendo and Yui's faces were never shown in the AU. Strange.

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 02:05 GMT

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Postby Digitalex [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

Great analysis OMF. I can't wait to get to that part again. After watching EoE, I have enjoyed EoTV even moreso.

On a slightly different note, I am surprised it took you that long to figure out the morning woody. Image

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 03:00 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

Shinji in the few AU minutes of 26 >>>>>>>>>>> Shinji in the entire TV series besides then and EoE combined.

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 03:05 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

^Meaning, circumstances that turn kids into wussies/abnormal SUCK.

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 03:12 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

OMF wrote:Just to let you know, I have watched the final scene. It's quite a show, and I'll be posting all my thoughts on it soon. 'Till then, enjoy the screenies!


For a given value of "soon". In my defence, my computer and the necessary files were in transit during the interum, and the montages took ages the make.

On top of that, this ending is so good, I'm going to drone on about the whole thing in minute detail. I really have fallen in love with this ending. It's just so spirited and uplifting! Ends the series on a great note. Not that I prefer it over EoE's ending, I just love it as an ending. It's deep and meaningful, hopeful too. There are lessons here for everybody when you think of it.
On with the, much belated, show!


So now the play is over and we return to the empty stage room from the end of episode #25. Que the string quartet version of "The Cruel Angel's Thesis" and Misato's words of hope(1) after Shinji's realisation that he can be more than just an Eva Pilot. But naturally there's more to Shinji's depression that this. It's more than just the world that he's unhappy with(2), he's unhappy with himself(3). And that's going to take some fixing. Not to worry, here comes the therapist brigade to get him back on his feet! I think the theme song of The Wonder Years would fit nicely here!
Image
Along come the bridge bunnies, telling Shinji that his own view of reality is not necessary what reality really is (3), and that the reality he sees is the absolute truth(4). Maya's advice here is paticularly apt(6)-(7). Reality, the world around us, is what we make of it, and if we shift our opinion, life can get better. Echo's of Yui's "Anywhere can be heaven" here?

Kaji opens this next important section, dealing with truth, or the meaning of life I suppose.
There is no one absolute truth. Everyone's truth is different!(8)
Image
Kensuke, elaborates. Shinji has his own version of the truth(9), his and no-one elses but this truth is his alone(10), and moreover is a moulded or censored view of reality(11)-(12). Kensuke gets quite a bit of dialouge here, more than Touji and Hikari as we'll see. I wonder about him...

Here come Touji and Hikari to lighten his spirts, explaining that one persons view of reality is inherently limited(13)-(14), so I suppose our failure to fully grasp reality is inevitable, so his viewing of reality of warped is not so hard to understand. But as Asuka reports, Shinji's ability to view only a warped and negative truth is due to his failure to truely try to understand the world by himself(15).
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Instead he has been relying on the opinions of others rather than forming his own. His mood depends on what he has simply learned to feel at a paticular moment. He's happy when he thinks he should be,(16) and unhappy when he feels he should be(17). Nice allegory here. He feels only what others have taught him to feel.(18). I suppose Shinji is a sort of emotional cripple, unable to come to his own true emotions and instead using learned responses in place of real feeling.

Of course this means, as Ritsuko tells him, that true hapiness will pass him by because he is failing to expierience it(19). He must be missing out on life by simply by passing through it, expieriencing it like an android. "I did nothing but exist"

Image
Fuyutsuki makes an enterance, again reiterating Maya's earlier point that our own personal "truth" is delicate and can be easily changed by a change in our view of the world.(20)-(22).
The ever wise Kaji again makes this point. Our individual truths are not set in stone.(23) We can change our perspective on reality, and so Shinji can change his perspective on reality as well. I like Kaji's comment here about people's quest for greater truth, or meaning to their lives(24). It's our own ever shifting viewpoint that makes us so uneasy that we seek deeper absolute truths. A lesson for those lost in religious limbo perhaps? Or for Eva fans lost in deep analysis? :E

Originally posted on: 11-Jun-2005, 17:57 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

And now the finale.

How appropriate that it is Gendou who says these words.(25) The very person most responsible for Shinji's lack of human love. I wonder is his statement here along the same lines of sentiment as his words to Yui in #26'?
Misato here, making a comment on Shinji's unnecessary insecurity, I suppose.(26) Since he is so unused to love, Shinji must feel that it is something that needs to be constantly earned through piloting, and will lose it if he stops.
Shinji is paranoid in his depression it seems.(27) "Nobody loves me" leads onto "Everybody hates me" after a while. Can we match these words of his onto his "Nobody wants me.." words to Rei just before complementation in #26'?

Also, note the similarity between the broken trees/lampost things in the mist that surround Shinji here, and the misty surreal landscape from Shinji's nightmare in #25. Do these images represent suicidal thoughts? Keep this in mind.
Image
At least Asuka sill gives it to him straight(28)-(29). People don't really hate him, that's just his warped version of the "truth".
But Shinji's problems aren't just with others. He suffering from depression(30). Low self-esteem is typical. It's funny that a lot of people never really seem to grasp this.


Rei's words here(31), like Asuka's in (29), seem to be words of encouragement, meant to give hope. Hasn't Shinji loved and trusted others before? So does he really hate himself? Or does she mean that love and trust await him if he stops hating himself.
Shinji's lines here are the same ones he gave Touji and Kensuke in episode #04, aren't they?(32) Shinji still can't let others get away with thinking well of him.(Also, if I may say, Isn't the pinao version of Cruel Angel Thesis playing here just delightful?!)
Misato's words(33), again like Rei and Asuka's, semm to be ones of hope. Understanding of himself will lead to greater understanding of others perhaps?
Image
But, Shinji remains depressed(34). This isn't contridicatory. Depression isn't something you snap out of. Bear with me. Shinji doesn't suddenly break out of depression in the following moments. But he does have a revealation.
We can see that the words and help he has recieved during complementation have given Shinji a source of hope(35). It's not inevitable that he must feel the way he does about life. And this is when this false constucted world begins to crack.(36)

Shinji's comment here(37) hearkens to the question he posed in #26', "Is it OK for me to be here?" but recieved only silence as an answer for. He is gaining more hope for himself. And the stage continues to crack(38)-(42).
Image
We see him doing "the hand thing", a sign he's gathering and gaining confidence.(39)-(41). Note how it ends with a closed fist(41). He has his confidence.

Originally posted on: 11-Jun-2005, 17:58 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

And his confidence shows. He declares himself(43) and his desire to be himself(44) amid more shattering(45).
Image
And now he declares his desire to live life, to be alive(46), standing up in the misty landscape. More shatterings(47),(48).

And now Shinji loundly and proudly answers that question from #26'(49). He's realised his life has worth, he's somebody. It's OK for him to go on existing in the world. He's stopped worrying about whether the world would be better off without him.
Image
I think what all this means, Is that Shinji has stopped being suicidal. If the misty landscape did represent thoughts of suicide, we now see it blown away (50)-(53), and replaced by the people in the world Shinji has realised he has a right to be in(54).

I've heard a lot of debate as to whether Shinji has made a choice to accept of reject complementation here. You could put a slant either way on the images here. But I think to say that Shinji is making a choice about complemenation here isn't really correct.
Shinji has made a choice about himself. He hasn't made a choice to accept or reject complementation. He has, first and foremost, made a choice to accept himself. He has made a choice to cease despairing and to embrace hope. That's what this last section is all about I think. It's about Shinji regaining his lost hope, choosing life over suicide.
What Shinji accepting himself means for complementation...well, I'll leave that for another time?

Anyway, cue applause, smiling faces, great BGM, happy ending. A montage if I may.
Image

Cue a pleasantly surprised(1), contented(2), delighted(3), beaming(4) Shinji. Happy ending anyone? Certainly happier than what we see at the end of #26' at any rate.
Image
I wonder who these titles are speaking to? (6) Has links to Shinji's farewell to his mother in EoE. (5) Doesn't really seem to fit Shinji's feeling for Gendou. The tone of (7) and (8) seems to me to indicate that these are personal words from the director, rather than Shinji's thoughts?

WHEW!!!!
Journal Done! It's been fun. You know I can't believe how long I went without seeing these. In my opinion, the TV ending is really the last piece of the Evangelion puzzle that you need to see. Sort of like and appendix to the entire series. Watching it after you watch EoE doesn't seem such a bad idea, paticularly since the uplifting ending might cheer your spirts after the gloom that was #26'.

Enjoy!

Originally posted on: 11-Jun-2005, 18:00 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm

I've long thought of the end of #26 representing the "Heisoku no kakudai" (Instrumentality ending) and "Yume no sukima" (Yui's farewell) portions of EoE. The Shinji we see in these scenes is not dissimilar from who we get as a product of EoTV... only EoE goes the next step and shows Shinji after he's returned to reality, when he's not quite as "with it" as we could have hoped.

Originally posted on: 11-Jun-2005, 18:14 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:15 pm

Thanks, OMF!

OMF wrote:Kensuke gets quite a bit of dialouge here, more than Touji and Hikari as we'll see. I wonder about him...



He's actually quite a perceptive guy; just a bit geeky with it. He's the only one of the school crowd who could have taken this part of the load.

Actually, it's interesting how the minor characters, like Kensuke, Maya, and Fuyutsuki actually have bigger parts in this sequence - and in the latter two case, this is the only times they are seen to interact directly with Shinji. What is surprising that role-model/father-figure Kaji has such a comparatively small part.

OMF wrote:He must be missing out on life by simply by passing through it, expieriencing it like an android. "I did nothing but exist"



The irony is that being, rather than doing is the sought after endpoint of Buddhist enlightenment. I guess the difference is all on the inside.

OMF wrote:People don't really hate him, that's just his warped version of the "truth".



At least until they've watched EoE, that is Image

OMF wrote:we now see it blown away (50)-(53), and replaced by the people in the world Shinji has realised he has a right to be in(54)...But I think to say that Shinji is making a choice about complemenation here isn't really correct.
Shinji has made a choice about himself.



Yes; he has accepted himself. Wherever we are, this is not yet the objective world (look at all the dead people standing around clapping).

OMF wrote:The tone of (7) and (8) seems to me to indicate that these are personal words from the director, rather than Shinji's thoughts?



That was my reading of all four of those final pages. The whole ending is much more satisfying than EoE; there is closure here. But if it weren't for the bleak and open-ended 26', there probably wouldn't be so many of us here, now.

Reichu wrote:only EoE goes the next step and shows Shinji after he's returned to reality, when he's not quite as "with it" as we could have hoped.



Understatment for effect there.

Originally posted on: 12-Jun-2005, 08:14 GMT

BLACKANGEL32076 [ANF]
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Postby BLACKANGEL32076 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:15 pm

I want to thank you for doing this. I had always had a very low opinion of #25 & #26. Now I see it with fresh eyes and see it in a better light.

Two issues I want to deal with though:

1. That my poor Misato-chan was as "disturbed" as you've said was never a shock to me. keep in mind she was the battlefield CO of a International Para-Military outfit that was in charge with protecting the world. Now I lived in a college dorm 8 months a year for 5 years and I can tell you with experience that Misa-chan lives her life, dispite her responcibilities, like a college girl who never left the dorms. That ALONE tells you that the poor thing is in her heart, a very hurt and wounded woman. There is such a big piece of her that just doesn't care about much any more. Is it any surprise that she rewards Kaji with sex, the most intimate gift she could give the man, for caring about her, (only to abandon him out of fear when he starts reminding Misa-chan of her Dad). We talk about Asuka and Shinji's pain, but what about her's? If anything she was more like the those two than even she thought.

2. That Asuka was upset that "no one would protect" her is no surprise. When she latched onto Kaji, it was because "he was a reliable man", (I forget which ep. she said this), like one would want from a father or father-figure. For all of her abuse of Shinji, I think that she saw a lot of that in him as well. This is due to the fact that he was always ther to take care of her needs. It was only her rage at being bested as an Eva pilot that kept her from giving Shinji credit for doin so. I take this as one of the reasons that she was so upset that Shinji didn't save her from the 15th.

...but those are only my two cents.

Originally posted on: 15-Jun-2005, 04:38 GMT

OMF [ANF]
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Postby OMF [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:15 pm

I live to give!

The Case of Katsarugi Misato was an eye opener for me. I really never suspected that Misato was so disturbed, or more importantly so unhappy. Is she really so unhappy? Or is she only tormenting herself?

Asuka's lines are resonant with her "You won't save me!" lines to Shinji in episode #22', but from the tone of them it comes across that Asuka has been looking for someone to protect her all the time, which really doesn't seem to fit her character. Perhaps the line only refers to the fact that no one resuced her when she was most in need.

Originally posted on: 15-Jun-2005, 14:12 GMT

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:15 pm

OMF wrote:The Case of Katsarugi Misato was an eye opener for me. I really never suspected that Misato was so disturbed, or more importantly so unhappy. Is she really so unhappy? Or is she only tormenting herself?


If she was torturing herself, that would make her unhappy. If you can't see how desperately unhappy Misato's character has been all throughout the anime, then you perhaps don't have sufficient experience of that personality type. Many people are very good at masking their unhappiness, and both Asuka and Misato are excellent case-studies of two methods of accomplishing this. Misato overcompensates, whereas Asuka simply projects a facade of faux self-confidenence. That's an oversimplification, of course, but I don't believe that the point is incorrect.

Asuka's lines are resonant with her "You won't save me!" lines to Shinji in episode #22', but from the tone of them it comes across that Asuka has been looking for someone to protect her all the time, which really doesn't seem to fit her character. Perhaps the line only refers to the fact that no one resuced her when she was most in need.


It's hard to judge tone when watching anime. The dub will give a completely false idea of tone, of course, but you don't watch dubs. The subs can also give a false impression, too, so you might want to consider consulting the original Japanese text, or at least a better translation before drawing any conclusions.

That said, I think that in this instance, at least, you are right that she is looking for someone to protect her - although a better word would be "support" - all of the time. If you think it's inconsistent with her character, that's only because you are buying into the fictitious character that she projects. Sohryu Asuka Langely is her most succesfull creation, so to speak.

You and I still do not agree on the nature of Asuka's personality, OMF, and I think that the fact that you are uncovering evidence which seems contrary to your own interpretations speaks volumes for it's accuracy. However, you are not the only one to hold those views, and as yet they have not been thoroughly discredited. Do not, however, expect that I will not make the attempt. Image

Originally posted on: 15-Jun-2005, 14:57 GMT


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