Unit 00 and Naoko Akagi

[Painkiller [ANF]]

Presumably, the same way the Evas do before they're given souls.



It's not "copying"! It's using Quantum Pseudotechnological Magic to have one soul be in two different places simultaneously -- isn't it?

lol, Pseudotechnological Magic.

How do Evas keep their shape before they are given souls?


btw, on your site you call Eva-00 Naoko.

and do you really have those images copyrighted?

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:07 GMT

[tv33 [ANF]]

I like the core theory Reichu, it would seem to make sense from the Gendo perspective.

However would that mean that the all of the childrens mothers were involved in the experiment, and that the newly formed core and Eva sat in storage? It seems like they would have been used to defend Tokyo-3 rather than siting there uselessly with perfectly good Eva, souls, and pilots just waiting to be use.

I would think that Eva are in short supply from Gendo famous line.
Gendo: Loss is Unit-02 is not acceptable at this time.

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:16 GMT

[tv33 [ANF]]

It's not "copying"! It's using Quantum Pseudotechnological Magic to have one soul be in two different places simultaneously -- isn't it?

How dare you, I love that theory. It wraps everything into a nice box. And it does not complicate things with the whole "Soul Copying" thing.

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:18 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

How do Evas keep their shape before they are given souls?

You've got me. Perhaps uber-entities aren't subject to the same rules as mere mortals and physical form isn't dependent on the A.T. Field.

While we're at it... Does it make a whole lot of sense for a mysterious spiritual emanation to be the ONLY thing keeping a messy organic machine from dissolving into a Tang-colored chemical puddle? I like the idea of the A.T. Field being able to CHANGE one's physical form from what DNA determined -- but not this whole idea of the A.T. Field being the sole thing that holds us together. Bah!

And for even MORE questions about this mythos I'm sure nobody cares about...

--> Do every living creature on Earth have an A.T. Field holding it together -- and, ergo, a soul? Penguin, pine tree, and paramecium alike?

--> So exactly at what point do naturally-produced organisms get a soul? Upon the moment of conception? (I'm sure the folks debating the ethics of abortion would love the answer to this one...) Where does the soul originally come from, anyway?

As unimportant as the second item is from the perspective of NGE itself, it's actually something I need an answer to for my NGE-spinoff doujinshi -- so why not bring it up?

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:19 GMT

[thekillingmantra [ANF]]

First off, when, above, are you using Yui in the sense of Yui-isolated-Lilim-soul or Yui-Lilim-soul-together-with-Shogouki? It makes a difference.

Second, HOW were they indistinguishable and HOW was Yui Lilith? Shogouki might have been connected to Lilith at that point, but she was already morphologically different -- and she had a soul of her own before the split-off finally occurred. Though joined by a blob of taffy, they were two different beings.

(BTW, does anyone care to speculate why Yui started her experiments before Shogouki's body had fully formed? Something about this seems rather unpractical/unscientific...)

At that point, they were not two different beings. They were the one entity, which would have shared the one AT-field, thus there was no barrier between them, thus they were joined/connected/whatever.

Plus, if you believe that EVA-01's core is that of Lilith's, Yui's contact experiment was between herself and EVA-01's core which contained Lilith's soul, as opposed a soulless EVA-01, because at that point, Lilith's soul couldn't yet have been transferred to Rei. Does that make sense?

Also, I was referring to Yui/Lilith/EVA-01.

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:34 GMT

[thekillingmantra [ANF]]

How do they copy souls?

Ctrl+C - Ctrl+V

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:36 GMT

[AchtungAffen [ANF]]

I have the idea that after all they could put souls into cores that had no body, and even have the idea that NERV had an arsenal of cores already filled in. It all comes down to this:

Ep.23:

Ritsuko: Yes, that's a human.
Eva, which did not have a soul ab initio,
now that has a human soul.
[b]All of these are salvaged.

Of course that salvaged could mean 'the salvaged Rei clones', but because they were talking about the Eva having a soul, and considering the image background on ep.23 DC (some stuff like balls wich could be cores after all), moves me into believing Ritsuko referred about the cores with souls.

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:42 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

However would that mean that the all of the childrens mothers were involved in the experiment, and that the newly formed core and Eva sat in storage?

To be fair, the "core theory" is actually something I came up with after discussing stuff with MDWigs and Sharp-kun a little while back. I can only really take credit for the "presentation".

About your question... These disembodied cores would have been created WITHOUT having any Evas around to place them into. No idea what eventually happened to the mothers involved -- though we know they all died eventually -- and their children, obviously, were all gathered into a certain class for convenience's sake. (These spare cores were presumably created years in advance. Touji tells us in episode 5 that Rei started there in the 7th grade, which means that the class had been organized prior to 2015. Any idea what grade they're in currently, though?)

Whenever NERV obtained a new Eva, they would be able to pick and chose their new pilot -- and, ergo, his/her associated core -- according to whatever would be most convenient. According to this drawn-out theorem, EVA-03 thus would not have gotten her soul until she reached Matsushiro -- Touji's mom would have been planted into the Eva there (though I don't even want to THINK about how THAT procedure works :dead. They never obtained EVA-04, so presumably poor Yongouki was sucked into the Sea of Dirac a non-functional Eva [the functionality of Evangelions being directly tied to whether or not they have souls].

How dare you, I love that theory. It wraps everything into a nice box. And it does not complicate things with the whole "Soul Copying" thing.

[dripping with sarcasm]Oh, no, of course not. Not one little bit.[/dripping with sarcasm]

btw, on your site you call Eva-00 Naoko.

I'm aware of this. The EVA-00 that I typically draw is the EVA-00 of my personal doujinshi universe, which I started working on before I believed in the Rei-001 deal. That's why I support the Rei-001 theory in my forum posts and make disclaimers about the Naoko thing on my webpage, as I do here. EVA-00 is still Naoko in my story and there's no real way around it -- the character and her interactions with the others are already fully established, and, actually, I would LOSE EVA-00 as a character altogether by going the Rei-001 route!

and do you really have those images copyrighted?

That's for me to know and for anyone who tempts fate to find out. :evil:

Plus, if you believe that EVA-01's core is that of Lilith's

Which I, er, currently don't... Why would Yui try to put her soul into an entity that already had one (since you're trying to say that Shogouki was the same as Lilith before they were separated)? Lilith had her soul, EVA-01 had none, so Yui got into the entry plug and rectified this.

Originally posted on: 19-Oct-2003, 23:49 GMT

[thekillingmantra [ANF]]

Why would Yui try to put her soul into an entity that already had one (since you're trying to say that Shogouki was the same as Lilith before they were separated)?

Because a Lilim soul was needed for synchronization, due to the necessity of the mother/child link.

Lilith had her soul, EVA-01 had none, so Yui got into the entry plug and rectified this.

Hypothetically, if Lilith had her soul, as a separate entity, why then was her soul transferred from EVA-01 to the spare bodies (Rei/Yui clones) during the Yui salvage experiment? If Lilith's soul was in her own separate body, Lilith's soul couldn't have been involved in the salvage experiment at all, and as a result, Rei would not have Lilith's soul.

Originally posted on: 20-Oct-2003, 00:05 GMT

[Painkiller [ANF]]

To be fair, the "core theory" is actually something I came up with after discussing stuff with MDWigs and Sharp-kun a little while back. I can only really take credit for the "presentation".

What is the "Core Theory"?

and do you really have those images copyrighted?

That's for me to know and for anyone who tempts fate to find out. :evil:

My future reeks of lawsuit... jk

Originally posted on: 20-Oct-2003, 02:51 GMT

[Sharp-kun [ANF]]

You've got me. Perhaps uber-entities aren't subject to the same rules as mere mortals and physical form isn't dependent on the A.T. Field.

Most likely, given that at 3rd IMact they all take an Anti-AT Fiwld without flinching.

--> Do every living creature on Earth have an A.T. Field holding it together -- and, ergo, a soul? Penguin, pine tree, and paramecium alike?

Probably, though I'm not sure about plants. Remember at 2nd Impact Fuyutsuki said everything was eliminated?

Originally posted on: 20-Oct-2003, 09:29 GMT

[Gundampilotspaz [ANF]]

There is only a slight problem saying that all the childrens mothers were involed in the experiment and accual sat in the cockpit when they became one with the Evangelion. Asuka's mother hung herself. And because of that there is no way that she could of fused with the Eva the same wayn that Yui did.

Originally posted on: 20-Oct-2003, 18:43 GMT

[Dr. Nick [ANF]]

Ok, I could swear you people were talking somewhere in this thread about the topic "does anti-AT-field affect other life-forms than humans". I'm currently using this crappy dial-up so I don't have time to search properly... Sharp, please move this if I got the wrong thread. I just wanted to share my... visions.

I think Reichu once posted a picture that pretty clearly showed that at least plants were not affected by the global anti-AT-field of the Third Impact: So I'm assuming that anti-AT-field only affects to people (maybe Evas weren't affected because they are "soulless by nature" or some crap like that). Maybe there's some different kind of "field" that gives physical forms to animals and plants, but it's most likely that this is one of those things that Anno didn't just think of.

About that Second Impact -comment, we must remember two things:
1) That SEELE's science base was apparently located in the central part of Antarctica. No species live there naturally, all life-forms are foreign there. There can't have been much life besides humans, and the "area of life" must have been very limited.
2) There was also a helluva big & hot explosion during the SI. So, my theory is that when naughty-boy Adam decided to go blammo, anti-AT-field popped all humans into LCL and the conventional explosion eradicated the rest of living things (rats, fleas, bonsai-trees, microbes, bananas). The result - a completely lifeless continent.

(It is possible though that there's something terribly wrong with that theory. I don't remember the exact lines that were said about the incident, so I may well have missed some hugely important point (wouldn't be the first time). Please correct me if that's the case.)

Originally posted on: 20-Oct-2003, 19:33 GMT

[Gundampilotspaz [ANF]]

They never really mention planets or animals in Evangelion. We only know that lillith created Huamns and Adam created the Angels. I would assume that Adam or Lillith was responceable for the creation of plants and animals.(most likely adam) The only animal in the series was PenPen and he wasn't shown during EOE. But he was in the last scean of Episode 26. So in someway PenPen was also joined with everyone elses souls. Thus animals are also efficed by instermentality and the anti-A.T. Field.

Originally posted on: 20-Oct-2003, 21:38 GMT

[Sharp-kun [ANF]]

Ok, I could swear you people were talking somewhere in this thread about the topic "does anti-AT-field affect other life-forms than humans". I'm currently using this crappy dial-up so I don't have time to search properly... Sharp, please move this if I got the wrong thread. I just wanted to share my... visions.

The general belief id that an Anti-AT filed affects all life, and one was created at 2nd Impact. Fuyutsuji says all life down to microorganisims was eliminated.

Originally posted on: 20-Oct-2003, 23:28 GMT

[BLACKANGEL32076 [ANF]]

>tv33

Waint, you said they found Rei's arm in the Eva. Did I miss something? Was this in the DC series? I don't remember seeing this in the ADV original release.

Originally posted on: 22-Oct-2003, 05:59 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Waint, you said they found Rei's arm in the Eva. Did I miss something? Was this in the DC series? I don't remember seeing this in the ADV original release.

It's there, but it's really easy to miss. Here's the scene in question. On the computer, though, all you can really see are the vaguest highlights on four fingers and a thumb (in the left foreground). Check it out with a stand-alone DVD player -- I remember it being a bit more lucid that way.

Originally posted on: 22-Oct-2003, 06:04 GMT

[AchtungAffen [ANF]]

You can view it better here:


If you still can't see it, check this out:


Where "mano" is hand, and "brazo" is arm.

Originally posted on: 22-Oct-2003, 18:20 GMT

[BLACKANGEL32076 [ANF]]

Oh, it's an OUTLINE of an arm and hand. I see now. Thanks guys. BTW, if we see only an arm, doesn't it stand to reason that there might be more in the plug than just that?

Originally posted on: 22-Oct-2003, 23:06 GMT

[Gundampilotspaz [ANF]]

Oh, it's an OUTLINE of an arm and hand. I see now. Thanks guys. BTW, if we see only an arm, doesn't it stand to reason that there might be more in the plug than just that?

Yes ture but when you put it together with EOE where some people's, Miya for example, hands or limbs were left after their A.T. Field was destroyed.

Originally posted on: 23-Oct-2003, 00:44 GMT