Shin-seiki wrote:Mr. Tines droll little remark about the anglerfish made quite an impression on me at the time, since a: I LMAO, and b: I thought it was a sort of quintessential Tines post, in that it was both very esoteric, and yet remarkably apt to the topic at hand, and c: it was the first time I remember anyone suggesting that Gendo's fate was, in fact, to be with Yui forever. It was from that point that my take on the topic started to change, and I started to consider what happens to Gendo in #26' in a new light.
That part, I entirely get, and I see the applicability of it, even though I would assert that such notions are not entirely to be taken seriously. The part that baffled me is how that remark might apply to the other missing people. I suppose you must have been referring to only Gendo.
It should be apparent that the makers of the Card set felt that Gendo's absence fom the pic somehow indicated that he was ineligible for restoration, but I think that Wigs drew the wrong conclusion from that fact, whereas I think that Reichu is on the right track.
I'm more than a little shocked by that statement, and I can only hope that I've misunderstood you in some way. Are you really suggesting that the souls of those who are missing from that photograph have been taken into the core of Shogouki in order to accompany Yui on her cosmic voyage?
SEELE08 wrote:Well what else do you mean by evidence...wasn't eating off Zeruel's face enough...or maybe the events of EoE?
As I've discussed with you privately, once a course of action has been embarked upon, it is necessary to see it through to the bitter end no matter what. While there's no way to make it a civilised and pleasant act to consume the flesh of a still-living creature, it was quite simply a part of the plan which was inevitable once she chose to become one with the Evangelion.
SEELE08 wrote:Well she becomes god by totally ditching her family without so much as a word, not to mention she takes it upon herself to become god, at least SEELE had a council and wasn't one person. It takes a lot of arrogence to think one is good enough to become a supreme being. Frankly it smacks of Sephiroth and the like.
It is worth reiterating one more time at this point that the word "kami" which I believe is the one employed in this context does not carry precisely the same connotations in the Japanese language as the word "God" in English. I would have to agree with you that it's questionable if Yui could have done more to protect her family from the pain of her loss. In that regard, it seems that she allowed her aims to blind her to the suffering of those around her.
There is a degree of evidence to suggest that her single-minded desire to defeat the plans of SEELE stood above all else, and while I wouldn't call that selfish, I'd certainly not call it the perfect course of action. It's arguable that however much good she managed to do for the species as a whole, she also caused her husband and son a great deal of suffering.
I would regard the fulfilment of the plan of SEELE as an undesirable outcome in the extreme. While they may have been a large organisation with many members, they do not have the right to decide such things for all mankind. In that regard, I would state that by stopping their plan for instrumentality Yui did indeed acomplish something good. However, she did so with an unfortunately large degree of "collateral damage".
It is also guiding principle of most civilised societies that great powers should not be wielded by one single person acting alone, and I think that this is what gives rise to the accusations that Yui is arrogant. She answers to no government, no committee, to no commanding officer, not to anyone. This means that no matter whether you agree with her goals or methods, there are no checks and balances, and no consensus.
Reichu wrote:As for Sephiroth: apples and oranges.
I'd say that as his name alone
should show you, there's something in Sephiroth's story which is, in my opinion, undeniably applicable to Yui. There is also plenty which differentiates the two, but I think that to call it an apples-to-oranges comparison is unjustified. It's not entirely off the mark. The intentions may have been different, but the process by which those intentions were to be achieved have much in common.
It would be nice to think that either of you would be willing to see shades of grey in this matter, or to see the opposing point of view. Things aren't ever that clear cut in Evangelion. There are no clear-cut heroes, and no clear-cut villains. There are people doing what they believe in, and that is all. I've heard Wayne's take on SEELE before, and I think that it goes a little too far. In much the same way I think that both SEELE-08 and Reichu go a little to far on the matter of Yui. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Originally posted on: 14-Mar-2006, 04:57 GMT
-- I'll attempt to crank out a little something regarding this fan favorite:
