NGE2 Classified Information

[Reichu [ANF]]

I still want to know what the hell is wrong with that harpy's face (besides the obvious). Ugh, those things give me the willies.

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 11:17 PM

[BLACKANGEL32076 [ANF]]

I'm starting to think that was the whole idea of giving them faces in the first place.

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 02:04 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

But they were frightening to begin with!

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 03:40 PM

[Blader5489 [ANF]]

This actual reminds me of how I've batted around the "Path" terminology in the past (if anyone remembers the "FiP" stuff), referencing the flow of souls towards Lilith. Like, they're all heading for the same place, Lilith ("God"), so they're all on a "path to God".

That's what I originally thought, except Lilith herself isn't important to SEELE's plan (since, in EoE, they were going to use Eva-01 instead). What they need is a medium (yorishiro) to reset the Earth and all life forms on it, so as to release everyone's souls.

I think Path to God is a misnomer, as SEELE's final goal isn't to become one with God or Lilith, but to become one with each other. "Path to Complementation" would be a far more accurate name. =P

Sometime you'll need to expand your repertoire to squeeze in the SToL (which also conveys the concept of linking Man with God, IIRC), which is such a big enough Keel has his flying monkeys 'draw' it in the skies above Hakone. (And there's a fleeting occurence of the Trinity symbol before Tangification starts, too.)

I've got to make this short for now, but my understanding of the SToL in EoE (note that it's inverted) is basically showing that the Evas and Yui (who was replaced by GNR) were tasked with returning individual souls to Paradise (which is called Ain Soph, I believe, and lies right above Kether - my guess is that the NGE equivalent is the Black Moon).

So forming the inverted SToL isn't so much an act in and of itself (aside from unearthing the Black Moon), but merely used to show that the Evas and whichever medium they used were going to return all souls in the physical world to their paradise in the Black Moon (which is the opposite of what the regular SToL depicts).

No idea what function the Trinity symbol is supposed to serve, other than raising the Black Moon into space.

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 03:50 PM

[Soluzar [ANF]]

I've got to make this short for now, but my understanding of the SToL in EoE (note that it's inverted) is basically showing that the Evas and Yui (who was replaced by GNR) were tasked with returning individual souls to Paradise (which is called Ain Soph, I believe, and lies right above Kether - my guess is that the NGE equivalent is the Black Moon).

I'm wondering what that says about Dis Astrangant, the Banpresto Original mecha, myself. Dis Astranagant's final attack is called Ain Soph Ur.

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 04:22 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

That's what I originally thought, except Lilith herself isn't important to SEELE's plan (since, in EoE, they were going to use Eva-01 instead). What they need is a medium (yorishiro) to reset the Earth and all life forms on it, so as to release everyone's souls.

Why do you think that's what they mean by "medium"?

I think Path to God is a misnomer, as SEELE's final goal isn't to become one with God or Lilith, but to become one with each other. "Path to Complementation" would be a far more accurate name. =P

It excels in its ambiguity. Gendo wants to open the Path, too, but he has a different plan that also somehow involves the SToL (he has it on his ceiling, after all).

I've got to make this short for now, but my understanding of the SToL in EoE (note that it's inverted)

It would only be inverted from the perspective by which it's shown. It's technically lying on an even plane. </devil's advocate>

Also speaking of inversions, recall the inverted ToL at 2I, which is properly oriented before 3I.

is basically showing that the Evas and Yui (who was replaced by GNR)

If it was an actual "replacement", why does GNR absorb her?

were tasked with returning individual souls to Paradise (which is called Ain Soph, I believe, and lies right above Kether - my guess is that the NGE equivalent is the Black Moon).

I'd been rolling around a Kether / Black Moon connection in my head, too, but hadn't done any research on it... Black/Dark Moon is an astrological reference, so that gives you something to work with there; the designations "source of human life" and "Lilith's Egg" need to be considered, as well. What an artificially constructed, hollow sphere that the FAR stuck in a big piece of rock has to do with any of that crap, I have absolutely no idea...

Paradise is Eden, I thought. Looking in me new book (Tree of Souls: The Mythology of Judaism) here, Ein Soph ("the Endless One") is the highest, and "unknowable", emanation of God; the "knowable" parts are emanated through the sephiroth.

Here's something interesting:
THE COSMIC SEED

In the beginning a holy spark emerged from within the hidden depths of God, concealed within the mystery of the Infinite. As the spark began to glow, radiant colors were revealed. That spark was a cosmic seed, planted in the innermost recesses of the divine womb. There it was hidden away within a palace of its own creation, the way a silkworm hides itself in a palace of its own. It was there, in that palace, that the holy seed was sown, from which all of existence came forth. Before that spark nothing is known. That is why it is called the Beginning.

Comments: This is the key kabbalistic creation myth in the Zohar, found near the beginning of the book. It is both a mystical commentary on Genesis 1:1 and a creation myth of its own, as well as the primary myth describing the process of emanation of the ten sefirot. As a creation myth, it draws on the cosmic egg type of myth, in this case creation from a cosmic seed that takes root in the primordial womb. Unstated, but suggested, is the mythic image of a divine womb, and the hint of a goddess figure who gives birth to the world.

At the same time, this myth functions in the Zohar as an alternate creation myth, that of creation by emanation, as performed through the ten sefirot. It proposes that the world emanated from the highest, unknowable part of God known as Ein Sof, the Endless, in a series of emanations, each identified with one of the ten sefirot. The language of the Zohar in presenting this myth is extremely allusive, symbolic, and cloaked in mystery.I wonder if this "cosmic seed" stuff has anything to do with "cosmic tree" (as the ToL is sometimes called). Later, perhaps. Researching Da'ath ought to yield some interesting results; I remember Dr. Nick digging up stuff a while back that sounded "awfully familiar". (Maybe I can find that later, too.)

The Cosmic Seed bit is followed by a series of entries about how at first "there was only a universe of water", also. That's not anything unusual in mythology, of course, but I suppose its presence here (in a kabbalistic context) and the word "universe" made me think of the LCL Sea. (Which I think may be closely related to the Dirac Sea. Consider for starters: when EVA-01 shoots at the "shadow", fluid that looks suspiciously like LCL slurts out, and Ritsuko later says of the Dirac Sea, "I think it's connected to another universe/space".)

Oh yeah. And when you consider all the Black Moon stuff, you have to take into consideration the two streams of souls flowing into the Doors. (All while keeping in mind that, inside Lilith, there are three streams of Rei swimming in a vast sea of corpses towards a red moon; and that Shinji, inside EVA-01, inside the ToL, inside Lilith, mind-melds with everybody who's in the Black Moon).

So forming the inverted SToL isn't so much an act in and of itself (aside from unearthing the Black Moon), but merely used to show that the Evas and whichever medium they used were going to return all souls in the physical world to their paradise in the Black Moon (which is the opposite of what the regular SToL depicts).

What about the AATF? And how about that giant eyeball explosion? TOO MUCH INFO!!!

No idea what function the Trinity symbol is supposed to serve, other than raising the Black Moon into space.

Yeah, but there's no correlation if you put it that way.

Keep at it, d00d.

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 05:18 PM

[Soluzar [ANF]]

Paradise is Eden, I thought. Looking in me new book (Tree of Souls: The Mythology of Judaism) here, Ein Soph ("the Endless One") is the highest emanation of God and the one that is "unknowable"; the "knowable" parts are emanated through the sephiroth.

I've checked again, and the attack name is "Ain Soph Aur". Might you have any idea what to make of that?

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 05:26 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

"Light of Ein Soph", if that fits.

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 05:31 PM

[Soluzar [ANF]]

"Light of Ein Soph", if that fits.

It's usually called "Infinite Light" by the fans, so that does fit well, since it could mean "Light of the Endless One", or something of that nature. Thank you.

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 05:35 PM

[Blader5489 [ANF]]

Why do you think that's what they mean by "medium"?

I'm not really sure. Fuyutsuki says yorishiro, which is the Shinto idea of a kami infusing itself into a physical object, but I can't really see how that applies here.

It would only be inverted from the perspective by which it's shown. It's technically lying on an even plane.

Since it was inverted facing the screen, I'm assuming Anno wants us to know that it was inverted.

Also speaking of inversions, recall the inverted ToL at 2I, which is properly oriented before 3I.

I'm still not sure of how valid that scene is. It was only one frame in DEATH. Do you know if that same frame was in #21' and/or DEATH(true)^2?

If it was an actual "replacement", why does GNR absorb her?

Maybe it's just something Rei is doing of her own volition? Kind of like merging the Spear into Eva-01. The scene is obviously meant to be similar to the union of Lingam/Yoni from Hinduism.

the designations "source of human life" and "Lilith's Egg" need to be considered, as well. What an artificially constructed, hollow sphere that the FAR stuck in a big piece of rock has to do with any of that crap, I have absolutely no idea...

Maybe it's just where Lilith originally gave birth to human souls?

As a creation myth, it draws on the cosmic egg type of myth, in this case creation from a cosmic seed that takes root in the primordial womb.

"Primordial womb"... isn't that what Gendo called the Black Moon in #26?

The Cosmic Seed bit is followed by a series of entries about how at first "there was only a universe of water", also. That's not anything unusual in mythology, of course, but I suppose its presence here (in a kabbalistic context) and the word "universe" made me think of the LCL Sea. (Which I think may be closely related to the Dirac Sea. Consider for starters: when EVA-01 shoots at the "shadow", fluid that looks suspiciously like LCL slurts out, and Ritsuko later says of the Dirac Sea, "I think it's connected to another universe/space".)

It could also be a connection to the "beginning of the universe" scene at the start of the OP.

Oh yeah. And when you consider all the Black Moon stuff, you have to take into consideration the two streams of souls flowing into the Doors. (All while keeping in mind that, inside Lilith, there are three streams of Rei swimming in a vast sea of corpses towards a red moon; and that Shinji, inside EVA-01, inside the ToL, inside Lilith, mind-melds with everybody who's in the Black Moon).

I remember someone's interpretation of what was going on there (I can't remember the original poster, though). I think it was something like: "The beginning (Lilith) and the end (Black Moon) are one in the same." It may also be a Leliel type situation in which you can see two distinct objects, but they lead to the same place (in Leliel's case it was the Sea of Dirac, in EoE's case it was the Chamber of Guf).

What about the AATF? And how about that giant eyeball explosion? TOO MUCH INFO!!!

Well, the AATF is taking the form of the SToL.

Also, something I've been meaning to ask, does anyone know what symbol the Eva series forms in front of GNR (right before they grow Rei heads)? I understand what the Evas are doing, but it could be a whole lot clearer if I knew what symbol they were making (my first impression was the Seven Eyes of God, since it contains seven circles, but I'm not too sure about that).

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 07:00 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

I'm not really sure. Fuyutsuki says yorishiro, which is the Shinto idea of a kami infusing itself into a physical object, but I can't really see how that applies here.

Eh, there's always this.
[Medium (YORISHIRO)]
An object which attracts divine spirits (= souls) or which acts as a media through which these spirits manifest themselves. In episode 26', Fuyutsuki refers to Eva-01 as a "Medium" (Well of Souls) when SEELE uses it to create the Tree of Life.I don't know what bb's thing with "Well of Souls" is, because that ain't in the original Japanese.

Making Yui into a "medium" apparently entails "crucifying" her and forming the SToL (not the ToL from later on). This, of course, involves punching gaping holes into her palms. Ever wonder if those actually might be for a "practical" purpose? For starters, where else in the show do you see "stigmata"? And with regard to mediums, can you think of any 'divine spirits' that might be of special interest to Seele, and perhaps 'thematically' relevant to the ToL stuff?

I'm still not sure of how valid that scene is. It was only one frame in DEATH. Do you know if that same frame was in #21' and/or DEATH(true)^2?

#21' only goes up to the 'big hands' and ends there. The revamped Wings of Light shot is exclusive to DEATH. And by "DEATH", I am just referring to the movie in general. The screenies come from the FEATURE FILM DVD (= Renewal), which is DEATH(TRUE)^2 (natch), but the Wings cut was there in the original version, as well.

As for its validity, the side-by-side comparison ought to speak for itself.

Maybe it's just something Rei is doing of her own volition? Kind of like merging the Spear into Eva-01.

I suppose it's ambiguous who's responsible for the latter. (But we do know that Yui enjoys it.)

The scene is obviously meant to be similar to the union of Lingam/Yoni from Hinduism.

For one rather terse cut, there is an awful lot of information... Some possible leads here.

Maybe it's just where Lilith originally gave birth to human souls?

If Lilith 'gave birth' to human souls, then where does the Chamber of Guf figure in...? (A possibly rhetorical question, like so many others. )

"Primordial womb"... isn't that what Gendo called the Black Moon in #26?

Gendo doesn't call it anything. Fuyutsuki says, "Lilith's egg, the source of human life... 'The Black Moon'."

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 09:34 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

It could also be a connection to the "beginning of the universe" scene at the start of the OP.

My thoughts exactly. The nebulous red domain that emerges from the "pulse" (the "holy spark"?) is called akai uchuu, or "red universe/space" (with the image of Sammael -- a depiction of the Ultimate Being? -- imposed upon it). A light appears in the distance and we begin our transition to blue, with the moving starfield, over which the Tree of Life (Fludd's, to be equated with what EVA-01 becomes in EoE) appears. We start at the bottom of the tree (the branches) and move to the top (roots). The flickering light motif appears and haloes of light engulf the screen -- signifying an emergence from some primordial womb?

The "red universe" motif shows up again in both its "nebula" form (behind the row of Rei in #15, on the ceiling of the "Arena" in #24, behind the Shinjiquarium in #26', etc.) and as a starfield (#14, during both the monologue and Shinji's contact with Zero; #20, Shinji's bizarre journey). ("Astral space" also occurs when Shinji first encounters Yui's soul in #16.) The Sea of LCL seems strangely familiar, not only in being a massive red space, but in having the stars visible on the horizon. (Along with various other things I can't properly articulate at the moment.)

Aside from Leliel splurting out LCL-looking fluid and perhaps leading to another place, there is something scribbled on Ritsuko's whiteboard about "Red Shift". Now, I really have no idea what the hell that is, but I accidentally stumbled across this, and the picture made me go, "Whoa. It's like NGE's starfields!"

Er, anyway. The "Prelude" of the OP probably has a lot of bearing on the f'd-upness that is EoE.

I remember someone's interpretation of what was going on there (I can't remember the original poster, though). I think it was something like: "The beginning (Lilith) and the end (Black Moon) are one in the same."

Should try to find that if you can.

It may also be a Leliel type situation in which you can see two distinct objects, but they lead to the same place (in Leliel's case it was the Sea of Dirac, in EoE's case it was the Chamber of Guf).

Well, if everybody really wants to go to the Chamber of Guf, why bother with the Black Moon at all? Just go right into those palms like two streams of souls already are, right? And, as I've already said, I still don't understand what endows what is basically a hollow sphere made out of lots of little curving plates with so many mystical properties and so much significance. I mean, what can it possibly do for everybody that the primordial mum can't?

Well, the AATF is taking the form of the SToL.

Yeah, but why are they bothering with an AATF? They're not melting anybody down; Lilith's AATF helps out with that later on. Whatever they're up to, it's at this point that the parallels with 2I are drawn, as opposed to later.

Also, something I've been meaning to ask, does anyone know what symbol the Eva series forms in front of GNR (right before they grow Rei heads)? I understand what the Evas are doing

"You don't understand -- you fanwank!"

(I need to stop doing that.)

but it could be a whole lot clearer if I knew what symbol they were making (my first impression was the Seven Eyes of God, since it contains seven circles, but I'm not too sure about that).

If anybody would know, or know how to find out, it's our old pal Zuggy. Somebody can try posting a pic of the image at THAT BOARD, since I don't think he's been banned there, yet. [Edit: I think "Anonymous" will do it, if you know what I mean.]

So, uh, why the heck do the Evas "fuse" with Rei and become butt-fugly deformed vile ohdeargodwhyannowhy?

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 12:29 AM

[felineki [ANF]]

Also, something I've been meaning to ask, does anyone know what symbol the Eva series forms in front of GNR (right before they grow Rei heads)?

I vaguely recall someone mentioning that it's a symbol that represents "infinity"... I don't know whether or not that's accurate, though.

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 01:33 AM

[Jabberwok [ANF]]

I remember someone's interpretation of what was going on there (I can't remember the original poster, though). I think it was something like: "The beginning (Lilith) and the end (Black Moon) are one in the same."

I think you may be referring to something retarded I said in this fun thread. More specifically, this post.

...My futile effort did bring me to another posible conclusion, though. Said simply, by Keel, "The end and the beginning are one in the same" (or something like that).

Fuyutsuki describes the Black Moon as "the source of all life" (?) and Lilith's orgasmic wave of death is quite clearly "the end of all life". In addition, when the reformed Tree of Life descends into Lilith's Third Eye and Shinji opens his eyes to the New-And-Improved Giant-Reiquarium, I had always felt that reddish space to be spherical and within the Black Moon itself, yet I never questioned how Shinji could have somehow found himself within that cavity some 100km away.

"The beginning (The Black Moon) and the end (and Lilith herself) are (lead to) one in the same (the Chamber of Guf)"...

...or I'm an idiot.

More idiocy coming soon...

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 11:14 AM

[Reichu [ANF]]

I only recall somebody saying that they thought it resembled the infinity symbol, but that was it. Though, if you pick a line and follow it, it will take you in a perpetual loop.

Posted the pic. (Er, I mean, Anonymous posted the pic.) Since I can't link to THAT BOARD, here's what we have so far:

***

Name Anonymous 06/07/26(Wed)14:42 No.20010 [Reply]

hey, dose anyone know what this symbol is?

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/26(Wed)22:38 No.20050

Count the circles, Anonymous.

>> Name Reichu 06/07/26(Wed)22:47 No.20052

Hmm, there are seven circles (seven being the Almighty Number and all), but that doesn't do much to address the actual identity of this geometric figure.

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/26(Wed)22:58 No.20054

Not? Have you never heard of the "almighty seven circle thingy"?

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/26(Wed)23:04 No.20057

Looks to me to be a stylised vibrational image of a seed sound like om/aum, similar to http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ray.tomes/rt_osc_7.jpg from http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ray.tomes/cymatics.htm which of course ties at once into the "AT fields resonanting!" line as well as the torus GUT posted elsewhere (cymatics).

10 nested concentric circles intersect oneanother in a 6x6 (da Vinci canon? grid of man?), I've never seen something like this before so no further comments from me here.

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/26(Wed)23:06 No.20058

*The ten concentric circles are of course the tree of life in another form http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image22vj8.jpg forgot that previously, as is so often the case the symbolism repeats itself throughout.

***

If you're "very clever", you can figure out what belongs to Zuggy. (He makes a rather poor Anonymous.)

EDIT: @Jabberwok -- "I'm not sure if I buy into this idea myself" or suchlike would suffice.

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 11:18 AM

[Reichu [ANF]]

BTW, here's the image:


(click for bigger)

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 12:09 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

Some more...

***

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)00:14 No.20063

There aren't seven circles there. There are two groups on either side of GNR and one group on her back. The group on her back are made up of 6 circles and the two groups of circles on either side of GNR are made up from 10 circles. Both are representations of the tree of life.

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)00:16 No.20064

>>Reichu: Hmm, there are seven circles

Where?

>> Name Reichu 06/07/27(Thu)01:20 No.20070

Hmm, perhaps "circles" was the wrong choice of word. Maybe this will get the idea across better:
http://www.evageeks.org/episode...C138A_eyes.jpg

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)02:05 No.20072

Your image doesn't mean anything... try instead interconnecting circles and see how the pattern unfolds:

Implied trinity: http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g/Picture1.png

Then: http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g/Picture2.png

Finally: http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g/Picture3.png

Which naturally relates to: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Tatig/tol2.gif and http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../Tatig/FoL.jpg rachet that pattern around and you get a horn torus, the shape of the human energy field http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Tatig/tol3.gif which is the same as a hypercube, which when projected unto a 2D surface forms a octagon within a octagon and a hexagon: same shape as the AT field, it all fits together.

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)02:21 No.20073

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ompression.jpg Forgot to say, this is also repeated in the Room of Reis. Look at how the lines are displaced on the 'graph' with the wavepattern plotted onto it, then the hypercube in the centre, then watch this video to see how they relate in 3D: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MjJUw2uL0gE then look at how the hindu yogis describe their energy field being a torus with chakras/prana tube running down their spine, then look again at the Room of Reis and notice the spine running through the centre of the torus field... more at http://animeboards.com/showthread.php?t=59412

***

If you have any idea what Zuggy (= "Anonymous" Who Is Obviously Zuggy) is talking about, please explain it to me in the vernacular.

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 01:32 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

Some more...

***

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)02:33 No.20081

The jump from http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g/Picture3.png to http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Tatig/tol2.gif isn't very plausible and the rest is just an extreme amount of overinterpretation. Which brings me to: Why didn't you put yourself in here: http://www.THAT-BOARD.com/....php?res=19941 instead of that Tines guy?

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)02:46 No.20099

The reason those comics are being made are because those people are part of The Conspiracy; banning and following me both online and offline, also because I find them funny.

If that is so then what about the other parts of my posts here today where I pointed out the 6-fold and 10-fold nested circles are representations of the tree of life also, doesn't that simply reinforce earlier conclusions.

A jump eh? Better not tell that to everyone else! http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...&sa=N&tab=w i also, don't mention about the geometry of the 'human lightvehicle' spoken of in qabalah either which uses the same pattern...

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)03:21 No.20107

>>
http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...&sa=N&tab=w i

None of these resemble http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g/Picture3.png either, unless you cut the two outer circles off. Which rather makes me think you learned of that "seed"-thing and now try to force it on this structure. If they would have wanted to imply that, they would have drawn it that way and not hide it in dozens of lines.

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)03:40 No.20112

First time I posted about the seed of life and sacred geometry in relation to eva was on evamonkey around a year ago (a couple of months after I joined?), previously to that it was purely spoken of on montauk project boards by me (delta-t/merkabah relation mostly), offline of course it was used by mekhizedek in relation to the great pyramid/original 8 cells and so on. Metatrons cube doesn't resemble the flower of life and yet that is the pattern from which it is derived - that's the way information is encoded in sacred geometry, to be unfolded, which is what Jung did every single day with his mandalas.

>> Name Anonymous 06/07/27(Thu)03:40 No.20113

Still no mention about the 6 to 10 fold geometry though (which still means it relates to the tree of life whether you trust the torus GUT/my words here or not). Also, your ignoring the other evidence that this is the case from the Room of Reis glyph as has been repeated here in this thread alone - once again your kinds ignore reality and schizophrenically split your mind into conscious/unconscious so you can never remember anything real.

>> Name Reichu 06/07/27(Thu)03:42 No.20114

20107 does have a point. The 'hidden geometry' is rather interesting, but perhaps it's worth sticking to what's immediately presented to us.

There is still the line pattern in and of itself. One thing I noticed is that if you follow a line (aside from the central circle), it will take you in a perpetual loop. (It's almost as if there are two vertically-oriented "infinity" signs in there, too.)

There's also the pattern formed by the Eva Series themselves, and the fact that it's centered upon Lilith's nape.

Incidentally, in the storyboards, an entirely different (and far less interesting) configuration is used. (Don't have a scan handy, though.)

***

Oh dear... Zuggy's gone into hysterics again. But maybe at least some of that will help. He may be crazy, but he does know some rather interesting odds and ends.

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 02:50 PM

[Blader5489 [ANF]]

Eh, there's always this.
[Medium (YORISHIRO)]
An object which attracts divine spirits (= souls) or which acts as a media through which these spirits manifest themselves. In episode 26', Fuyutsuki refers to Eva-01 as a "Medium" (Well of Souls) when SEELE uses it to create the Tree of Life.I don't know what bb's thing with "Well of Souls" is, because that ain't in the original Japanese.

Making Yui into a "medium" apparently entails "crucifying" her and forming the SToL (not the ToL from later on). This, of course, involves punching gaping holes into her palms. Ever wonder if those actually might be for a "practical" purpose? For starters, where else in the show do you see "stigmata"? And with regard to mediums, can you think of any 'divine spirits' that might be of special interest to Seele, and perhaps 'thematically' relevant to the ToL stuff?

Are those rhetorical questions? Because I don't know the answers.

The only thing I can think of is that, since Yui was substituting for Lilith, the Evas were recreating Lilith's crucifixion by crucifying Yui.

As for its validity, the side-by-side comparison ought to speak for itself.

I wasn't questioning the comparison, just whether or not it had been removed in the up-to-date versions.

For one rather terse cut, there is an awful lot of information... Some possible leads here.

Interestingly enough, that answers your previous question (about how Shinji could hear the thoughts of everybody if they were in the Black Moon and he was inside GNR). Since Rei is the mother of humanity, her third eye would be the 'throne of all souls.' Once Shinji enters it, he can hear everbody else's thoughts.

This could also explain as to why, in #6, Rei tells Shinji she feels a bond to all people.

If Lilith 'gave birth' to human souls, then where does the Chamber of Guf figure in...? (A possibly rhetorical question, like so many others. )

Well, assuming Lilith did birth human souls, then the Chamber of Guf would be the delivery room.

Gendo doesn't call it anything. Fuyutsuki says, "Lilith's egg, the source of human life... 'The Black Moon'."

I was referring to original #26, "The Beast that Shouted I At the Heart of the World." Doesn't Gendo defend the idea of complementation (from the text on the screen, of course) by saying something like "It is not a return to nothingness. It's a return to the orignal state of being, a return to the primordial womb"?

My thoughts exactly. The nebulous red domain that emerges from the "pulse" (the "holy spark"?) is called akai uchuu, or "red universe/space" (with the image of Sammael -- a depiction of the Ultimate Being? -- imposed upon it). A light appears in the distance and we begin our transition to blue, with the moving starfield, over which the Tree of Life (Fludd's, to be equated with what EVA-01 becomes in EoE) appears. We start at the bottom of the tree (the branches) and move to the top (roots). The flickering light motif appears and haloes of light engulf the screen -- signifying an emergence from some primordial womb?

Well I remember reading in one of the other commentaries that a similar sequence is described as what a infant might see/feel/experience upon leaving the mother's womb. If that's the case, then "the beginning of the universe" would be something of an emergence from the primordial womb.

Should try to find that if you can.

Jabberwok posted it.

Yeah, but why are they bothering with an AATF? They're not melting anybody down; Lilith's AATF helps out with that later on. Whatever they're up to, it's at this point that the parallels with 2I are drawn, as opposed to later.

I agree - the Eva series form the explodey kind of AATF, while Rei's is of the melting variety.

So, uh, why the heck do the Evas "fuse" with Rei and become butt-fugly deformed vile ohdeargodwhyannowhy?

I think one of the Renewal commentaries states that, in #23', Armisael takes on Rei's appearance (after merging with her) because Anno does a similar thing in #26'. If that's the case, then I'd assume that the Evas are simply merging with Rei so as to connect with her (i.e. become a part of 3I, since Rei will be the "medium" instead of Yui) and as result, they adopt her likeness.

As for the symbol I mentioned... Zuggy brings up an interesting point about it being an alternative ToL, although the only reason I say that is because the numbers fit (nine Evas and Yui formed the inverted SToL, and now nine Evas and Rei are forming the symbol-in-question).

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 04:19 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

Are those rhetorical questions? Because I don't know the answers.

What I was going for:

"Stigmata": Lilith's Doors of Guf
'Divine Spirits': Kamigami who were forcibly freed from physical form (as a prerequisite for 3I)

In theory, the stigmata bestowed upon Yui could act as "forced" Doors, providing passage for said souls into the 'medium'.

The only thing I can think of is that, since Yui was substituting for Lilith, the Evas were recreating Lilith's crucifixion by crucifying Yui.

That had occured to me, as well. But I don't think that's the only possibility worth considering.

Interestingly enough, that answers your previous question (about how Shinji could hear the thoughts of everybody if they were in the Black Moon and he was inside GNR). Since Rei is the mother of humanity, her third eye would be the 'throne of all souls.' Once Shinji enters it, he can hear everbody else's thoughts.

Well, technically, he only starts hearing everyone else's thoughts once he encounters those giggling Rei-things, does his "Ayanami... Rei?!?" routine again, Shinjiquarium shot, and THEN the flashing images start: Shinji clutching at his head (from #14), as if to convey the concept of psychological penetration; Misato giving him a "slap in the face"; and a couple of other images. Then the Montage From Hell begins.

I'm not quite sure I follow your thought stream on GNR's 3rd Eye.

Well, assuming Lilith did birth human souls, then the Chamber of Guf would be the delivery room.

Well, the souls would need to empty out through the Doors of Guf, which look kinda like ... yeah, so wouldn't THAT process be the symbolic "birth"? Kekeke.

I was referring to original #26, "The Beast that Shouted I At the Heart of the World." Doesn't Gendo defend the idea of complementation (from the text on the screen, of course) by saying something like "It is not a return to nothingness. It's a return to the orignal state of being, a return to the primordial womb"?

Ah, you confused me. That's #25.
#25 [Platinum subs]

Shinji:
What is this sensation?
I feel like I've experienced it before,
as if the shape of my body is melting away.
It feels so good.
I feel like I'm growing, expanding outward...
On and on...

TEXT:
That was the beginning of the instrumentality of people
What people are lacking
The loss in their hearts
In order to fill that void in their hearts
The instrumentality of hearts and souls begins
Returning all things to nothingness
The instrumentality of people had begun

IKARI:
No, it is not that we are returning to nothingness.
We are only restoring everything to its original state.
We are only returning to our mother, who has been lost to this world.
All souls will become one and find eternal peace.
That is all there is to it.The old translation had, "It is no less than a return to the primal womb that we lost long ago", but the new one is spot-on, from what I can tell. Even though it doesn't make as much sense. Can always investigate more, someday...

Well I remember reading in one of the other commentaries that a similar sequence is described as what a infant might see/feel/experience upon leaving the mother's womb. If that's the case, then "the beginning of the universe" would be something of an emergence from the primordial womb.

I was referencing the tidbit from "Eva tomo no kai", yes, but I wasn't QUITE equating the beginning of the universe with emergence. I.e., there's an in-between. Or, uh, there's a time paradox, like in #19 when we get both visual motifs at once.

I agree - the Eva series form the explodey kind of AATF, while Rei's is of the melting variety.

Since when was there an "explodey AATF"? It seems more logical to link the "Huge F-ing Explosions" up with "S2s in Overdrive". I mean, an AATF should be doing something to live up to its name somehow.

I think one of the Renewal commentaries states that, in #23', Armisael takes on Rei's appearance (after merging with her) because Anno does a similar thing in #26'.

No "I think"! Cite, cite, cite!

As for the symbol I mentioned... Zuggy brings up an interesting point about it being an alternative ToL, although the only reason I say that is because the numbers fit (nine Evas and Yui formed the inverted SToL, and now nine Evas and Rei are forming the symbol-in-question).

If that's all they were going for, though, they would have just used the nine concentric circles. He's probably hit on one aspect of the pattern, but much more remains.

Originally posted on: 07.26.2006, 06:55 PM