NGE2 Classified Information

[ElDusto [ANF]]

Hexon.Arq brought up Shiva/Shakti (lingam/yoni) a while back. I never got around to reading up on it, but I bet you guys are right about a Hindu connection. (FYI, there's a Tree of Life in Hinduism too, if that has any relevance whatsoever.)

Just to cover a pet peeve of mine, though, since the terminology seems to be a source of confusion: The term vagina refers to the muscular canal that extends from the vestibule in the labia minora to the cervix (right below the uterus) -- it's an internal structure. Vulva refers to the external female genitalia on the whole (labia majora + minora, clitoris, etc.). The latter is manifesting on the forehead (and... hair??) of GNR, but the eyeball IS emerging from the former.

Regarding Shinji and Rei... You know, as blatantly sexual as that scene is, I always thought that, at the same time, it really isn't.

Yeah, well, if I said Vulva, most people would have went "What's a Vulva?"

Originally posted on: 06.14.2006, 09:35 PM

[thewayneiac [ANF]]

The more I think about, the more I think that "the phenomenon apparently caused by her S2 Engine artificially going into overdrive", should be refering to Adam exploding. I'm wondering if we aren't supposed to read into this: "prevented the formation of a solely Adam-based ecosystem" the word "worldwide". That is the explosion, as I said, kept her from finishing the job. In other words, 2nd Impact was nearly what we've been calling the "destructive 3rd Impact". If the Katsuragi team caused the "overdrive" with their anti-A.T. Field, then they were in fact successful; it just wasn't enough to save themselves.

Originally posted on: 06.14.2006, 10:13 PM

[LuigiHann [ANF]]

Stepping back to the odd questions about the "Dead Sea Region," does it make any sense to assume that they're using that term to refer to a region in Antarctica? Kozo refers to a part of Antarctica as "the real Dead Sea," and that seems more intuitive than thinking they were brought back and forth from Antarctica to the middle east...

Originally posted on: 06.14.2006, 11:23 PM

[ElDusto [ANF]]

Stepping back to the odd questions about the "Dead Sea Region," does it make any sense to assume that they're using that term to refer to a region in Antarctica? Kozo refers to a part of Antarctica as "the real Dead Sea," and that seems more intuitive than thinking they were brought back and forth from Antarctica to the middle east...

When he calls it the "real" Dead Sea. He's refering to the aftermath of the tradegy that took place there 15 years before.

The more I think about, the more I think that "the phenomenon apparently caused by her S2 Engine artificially going into overdrive", should be refering to Adam exploding. I'm wondering if we aren't supposed to read into this: "prevented the formation of a solely Adam-based ecosystem" the word "worldwide". That is the explosion, as I said, kept her from finishing the job. In other words, 2nd Impact was nearly what we've been calling the "destructive 3rd Impact". If the Katsuragi team caused the "overdrive" with their anti-A.T. Field, then they were in fact successful; it just wasn't enough to save themselves.

That makes a lot of sense. I'll give a +1 to that.

Originally posted on: 06.14.2006, 11:44 PM

[Ornette [ANF]]

Stepping back to the odd questions about the "Dead Sea Region," does it make any sense to assume that they're using that term to refer to a region in Antarctica? Kozo refers to a part of Antarctica as "the real Dead Sea," and that seems more intuitive than thinking they were brought back and forth from Antarctica to the middle east...

There was some talk about that in this thread: http://www.animenation.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=186458

Originally posted on: 06.14.2006, 11:59 PM

[Jabberwok [ANF]]

thewayneiac, you got me to thinking that maybe the way they should have written the troublesome entry was...

Fortunately[/b], because of the phenomenon apparently caused by her S2 Engine artificially going into overdrive, the absolute catastrophe -? the resetting of all life due to A.T. Fields being extinguished ?- was prevented, as was the formation of a solely Adam-based ecosystem.

...That might be stretching it, though.

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 12:15 AM

[Reichu [ANF]]

A few questions still remain, and inevitable rewrites lay ahead, but the situation has improved considerably, so I'll give you a "slight" revision of 20-D now. This includes part of the sentence that I absent-mindedly forgot to give you (the reason being unimportant)

*****

20. Second Impact

D. In-Depth Information

The other Seed of Life, Adam, was awakened by humankind. The Katsuragi Investigation Team frantically attempted to reseal her using the Spear of Longinus, but failed. Ultimately, through the phenomenon of the S2 Engine apparently going into overdrive by artificial means (details are vague due to the team's complete annihilation), it became that only an absolute catastrophe -? the resetting of all life due to the disappearance of A.T. Fields, and the construction of an ecosystem with an Adam base -? was prevented. This is called the Second Impact. The incident blew Adam completely apart.

*****

There. That should at least be an improvement.

Wayne's already made a few suggestions that definitely seem to be in the right place. (I was pleasantly surprised to come back to the thread -- after another round of suffering -- and see that he'd already taken to the turf.) Here are some notes (brain noise in places, but being selective takes additional energy):

The "phenomenon" refers to what happened to Adam's S2 Engine, but they're not telling us much about that here except that it went out of control, berserk, into overdrive, or what have you as a result of human interference. Artificial or synthetic here, in the sense of "caused by humans".

The catastrophe mentioned is described as "complete and total", or, I suppose one might say, "utter", "absolute". I guess this wording might be used in contrast with "a catastrophe of lesser caliber". What falls under the "absolute catastrophe" label here is sort of confusing, since they structure the sentence like so:

(kanzen na hakkyoku) = (A.T. Field shoushitsu ni yoru zenseimei no reset) (to) (Adam base to no seitaikei kouchiku) //
(absolute catastrophe) = (the resetting of all life due to the disappearance of A.T. Fields) (and) (the construction of an ecosystem with an Adam base)

Tentative as I am about the language, I'm not sure if the = relationship works like this:

(absolute catastrophe = the resetting of all life due to the disappearance of A.T. Fields) (and) (the construction of an ecosystem with an Adam base)

or this:

(absolute catastrophe) = (the resetting of all life due to the disappearance of A.T. Fields *and* the construction of an ecosystem with an Adam base)

But now that I understand the whole sentence a bit better, I'm thinking it's the latter. :wonders if that sort of minutiae actually matters to anyone else :

So to get to the point, I'm thinking that the implications are something like this: Second Impact was a big enough disaster as things stood (see 20-A), but because of the S2 stuff, the ABSOLUTE catastrophe entailed by the two things mentioned (i.e., Adam carrying her task out to the full) was averted. (I.e., it was "only" because these two things were prevented that we didn't get an absolute catastrophe.)

If you have any questions about the changes I neglected to mention, let me know, since I'm too tired to go through them right now.

If the Katsuragi team caused the "overdrive" with their anti-A.T. Field, then they were in fact successful; it just wasn't enough to save themselves.

Translation flub from bochan_bird. It's unclear why Adam's S2 started going out of control, but, in the extremely economical top-secret UN tape (#21'/DEATH):
Man F (left) "Stop the surface luminescence! It's surpassing calculated predictions!"You can see, far in the back, that the source of this "luminescence" is getting more intense as the cut progresses. This is certainly Adam turning into a "Giant of Light". We get a hint as to what this entails in #26': The MP Evas glow when they "release" their S2 Engines in preparation for that giant explosion. (Their artificial components are what we can actually see lighting up, but the same thing happens with Adam, as well.) The difference is that, with the harpies, the S2s were controlled and the explosion planned.

What went wrong with Adam? Just humans messing with things they don't understand? I've actually been wondering if the CE was "sabotaged" (as it were) by somebody to prevent both Seele's AND Adam's dreams from actualizing that day, but that's just an idea I've been messing around with.

Reichu go sleepies now.

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 12:38 AM

[ElDusto [ANF]]

What went wrong with Adam? Just humans messing with things they don't understand? I've actually been wondering if the CE was "sabotaged" (as it were) by somebody to prevent both Seele's AND Adam's dreams from actualizing that day, but that's just an idea I've been messing around with.

I always thought it was rather convinient that Gendo left Antarctica just before 2I. Almost like he knew what was going to happen. Maybe Yui had some involvement in some sort of sabotage in the form of a sudgestion or order to Gendo.
I just keep getting this hint, that Yui knew about everything, even about the FAR. Like she was in on the whole thing. Maybe Yui knew that Adam would just cause problems for the Human Complimentation Project and sought out to destroy Adam since SEELE seemed to want her so bad. But instead of a total anihilation, Adam's body was reduced to an embryo/egg and all her "offspring" were released. It kind of puts Yui in a bad light, but it's just a random thought in my half-awake mind. Take it with a grain of salt, or eat the whole salt shaker.

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 01:31 AM

[CanonRAP [ANF]]

I always thought it was rather convinient that Gendo left Antarctica just before 2I. Almost like he knew what was going to happen. Maybe Yui had some involvement in some sort of sabotage in the form of a sudgestion or order to Gendo.
I just keep getting this hint, that Yui knew about everything, even about the FAR. Like she was in on the whole thing. Maybe Yui knew that Adam would just cause problems for the Human Complimentation Project and sought out to destroy Adam since SEELE seemed to want her so bad. But instead of a total anihilation, Adam's body was reduced to an embryo/egg and all her "offspring" were released. It kind of puts Yui in a bad light, but it's just a random thought in my half-awake mind. Take it with a grain of salt, or eat the whole salt shaker.

Seele would pull out Gendo before anything bad happens, and Yui, being the daughter of a member of Seele, would know a lot about what they were trying to do, though I doubt she would 'sabotage' anything (except her own CE).

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 01:38 AM

[BigBet [ANF]]

Sabotage is *pretty* prevalent in the show, IIRC:
1. Somebody sabotages the base when Matariel shows up
2. Somebody sabotages the Jet Alone.
Did I miss any?

Here's a very interesting line by Gendo I found in a most unlikely place:The end of evolution is self-destruction. It is death itself.Any guesses where?

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 01:42 AM

[Jabberwok [ANF]]

Liliputian Hitcher, nice. Hey guys, lets do an episode for a mecha show, but with no mecha in it. Sounds good! Let's do one later in the series where we focus on the old guy too!

It is true that death creates nothing, but Iruel's death did create some nice fan-service in that ultra-clean environment.

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 01:52 AM

[Reichu [ANF]]

I always thought it was rather convinient that Gendo left Antarctica just before 2I. Almost like he knew what was going to happen.

Apparently Keel left with him. Keel's organization was providing the funding, and Gendo was acting as an auditor. It's interesting that BOTH of them would split only a couple of days before the Contact Experiment, considering the hints that Seele were planning to use Adam (and her unborn offspring?) to open the Path to Divinity for themselves. (But, then, Keel wasn't anywhere near Hakone when 3I happened, either, even though he sent his flying monkeys there to do his dirty work.)

I should note that Gendo's behavior around Keel at the time of the Katsuragi Expedition is somewhat revealingly insincere. Additionally, the idea that Gendo was "using" Yui seems to be more of a public misconception than anything else; whatever they were up to, they were probably doing it as a dynamic duo. (Um, don't take that the wrong way. At least, not completely.)

I just keep getting this hint, that Yui knew about everything, even about the FAR. Like she was in on the whole thing.

Doopy doopy doo.
Yui is the daughter of an influential member of Seele, and, accordingly, was in the position of being able to understand their plans. Gendo, knowing this, became acquainted with her.

Maybe Yui knew that Adam would just cause problems for the Human Complimentation Project and sought out to destroy Adam since SEELE seemed to want her so bad. But instead of a total anihilation, Adam's body was reduced to an embryo/egg and all her "offspring" were released.

In the post I linked to earlier (read it, bitches!), I point out how Keel alludes to "relying on the power of Adam and the Angels" (or some such thing, haven't checked Japanese yet), I suspect as a reference to 2I. My own suspicions are that Adam's kids were, somehow, an important part of Seele's 2I (as opposed to "the 2I that didn't go so well"), and, in order to try again, they once again needed all of the Apostles at hand. (Meaning, wait for them to show up, kill them, and...)

The "reduction to an egg" thing still doesn't make much sense to me, since Misato's line makes it sound as if it was done on purpose (???). I can't even figure out how someone who exploded could degenerate into anything, let alone what that would have to do with "reducing the damage before the other Angels woke up" (<-- need to check on that more thoroughly).

It kind of puts Yui in a bad light

Notice how grouchy Fuyutsuki was when he showed up at the Artificial Evolution Laboratory for the first time?

Here's a very interesting line by Gendo I found in a most unlikely place:

Excellent. Now the question is, how does that link up with what Gendo says in #25' ("Death gives birth to nothing")?

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 11:25 AM

[Shin-seiki [ANF]]

Hey gang, check out this thread over on A-F.com; our old pal Zuggy has his doubts about one of our favorite pet theories...

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 12:51 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

:looks at zuggy's posts:



Coming from zuggy, such doubts don't mean very much. He's great at digging out esoteric references, but not very adept at keeping things in context... E.g.,
You can see how Enki and Enlil (elohim and yahweh) can be seen to be Lilith and Adam as well, and that the 'biblical flood' is why various cities in the Evangelion universe are underwater (god was angry with mankind and decided it should perish in the watery avalanche, called the second impact).

...

You know that these moons were from a planet called nibiru by the Sumerians, and marduk by the Babylonians. The anunnaki, or nephilim (these names were translated to the word giants in the Bible and other texts, giants as in Adam/Lilith like giants) were from this planet that is now either the asteroid belt due to a collision with Tiamat or out on a very far-flung orbit around our solar system. If you ask me, crashing two of the moons of marduk into earth was not a mistake. Also, isn't marduk called the first child born of the apsu?

What about the honey-comb structure inside the black moon, Shin-Seki? Some of the alien entities inside those must have died during larval stage or whatever the case may be, because some of them still remain closed. This explains where nerv gets some of their parts for the evangelions. Wouldn't those entities that were born be considered angels, and wouldn't that give a new angle to the war in heaven, this time around between Lilith who is sided with Sammuel against Adam who is sided with Eve.

What if their was a rebellion against Adam, what if the angels of Lilith killed Adam? What if Adam's batch of angels killed him? Shouldn't all of these scenarios be taken in consideration, before final conclusions are drawn....what the hell?

Here's something I vomitted up over there, just for the joy of being tarred and feathered by the locals.

One of the hints, methinks, that an actual duel occurred is hidden within #24 (along with many other things), "The Beginning and the End, or Knockin' on Heaven's Door"*, and that is the fight between EVA-01 (pilotted here by Shinji) and EVA-02 (controlled in some manner by Kaworu). As noted in my little blurb, Kaworu calls EVA-02 "Adam's alter ego", and Keel later calls EVA-01 "Lilith's alter ego" -- these designations had always been rather mysterious to me. They battle in the depths of the Black Moon, using two variations upon the same weapon, fighting in a non-lethal manner (i.e., not going for the core).

EVA-02 loses. What happens? The vessel Adam is inhabiting is destroyed, by her own request; Kaworu dies to give humanity the future. What was Kaworu actually planning to do before EVA-02 got the knock-down? Apparently -- and this point is made three different ways -- take her (= "copy" of Adam) for a body. A lot of the details there are still unclear, but, had this happened, it's basically said that humanity (= the Lilim kind) would be destroyed. With Adam's soul, EVA-02 would essentially BECOME Adam, and Adam, having the proper body once again, might be able to reprise her Seed duties (which would involve erasing Lilith's work).

What eventually happens because EVA-01 wins? Third Impact and HIP proceed (with her at the core), and, afterwards, Yui leaves the planet with the Spear of Longinus -- and intimations are that she is going to become a Seed of Life herself. (A status that Evas, as entities based off a Seed, Adam, all have the potential of achieving.)

So, in essence, the battle in #24:

EVA-01 WIN! = Lilim keep Earth + Lilim-created 2nd-gen Seed later sent from Earth
EVA-02 WIN! = Adam reborn (destroyed Seed functionally restored) + Lilith-based life wiped out

Like I said, I'm still unclear on some of the details here; it's "a work in progress". I have strong suspicions that something like this is going on, though, and that it is another instance in NGE of 'you never see something just once' -- except the first time this happened, it was off-screen, between Lilith and Adam, and inside the White Moon.

Also note: They let us know in #24 that Lilith's ATF is stronger than Adam's.

* And a Japanese title that can be read three different ways, giving this episode a whopping five titles, in essence.

Maybe some of that makes sense, at least.

BTW, Shin-seiki: POST MOAR!!! E-mail me back, too...

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 02:17 PM

[BigBet [ANF]]

Also note: They let us know in #24 that Lilith's ATF is stronger than Adam's.

I always wondered, why didn't Rei use her ATF offensively ever before? All those serious injuries she got in previous episodes could have been prevented by using her ATF as a protective buffer, right?
Or is it because only after Kaworu hinted to her about her true origins that she realised she has mad ATF 5k|LL5z?

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 02:25 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

I always wondered, why didn't Rei use her ATF offensively ever before? All those serious injuries she got in previous episodes could have been prevented by using her ATF as a protective buffer, right?
Or is it because only after Kaworu hinted to her about her true origins that she realised she has mad ATF 5k|LL5z?

I'm guessing it's the latter.

BTW, now that zuggy mentions it, what the hell IS that weird honeycomb thing? Like, NPC addition WTF?

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 02:29 PM

[Blader5489 [ANF]]

I'm guessing it's the latter.

BTW, now that zuggy mentions it, what the hell IS that weird honeycomb thing? Like, NPC addition WTF?

Not sure how to explain the honeycomb formation, but that's a pic of the Geofront, correct (for some reason, I'm competely drawing a blank on what episode that is - maybe 23?)?

If so, it may tie into the whole moon debate from before, as that surface, minus the honeycomb-like lines, definitely resembles that of the moon (or a moon).

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 03:56 PM

[Shin-seiki [ANF]]

This came up a while back, over on Evamonkey's forum. I dunno what that is, but it sure looks like something big and alive has erupted (hatched) out of that structure. (Do the script or Renewal DVD notes for #23' have anything to say about that cut, Reichu?

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 04:13 PM

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

whatever they were up to, they were probably doing it as a dynamic duo. (Um, don't take that the wrong way. At least, not completely.)

Well, with a birthday of 6-6-01, Shinji's conception date is exceedingly close to 2I, so your caveat is necessary (what was your take on Gendo's

what the hell IS that weird honeycomb thing?

I would not be surprised to find that it is the raw interior of the hull of the black moon.

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 04:23 PM

[zx06 [ANF]]

d00d lilith is teh bee, lol

Originally posted on: 06.15.2006, 08:27 PM