Kaworu Nagisa and the Imaginary Monoliths

[K2Grey [ANF]]

It's not a troll issue but rather clashing with the Animenation administration, I think.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 17:29 GMT

[The Eva Monkey [ANF]]

It's not a troll issue but rather clashing with the Animenation administration, I think.

I dunno, but I'm starting to feel like Sylvester Stalone in Demolition Man.

"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for violation of the verbal paramaters."

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 18:06 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

Maybe from now on I'll sport care bear avatars and pink font, and jump from thread to thread going "WAII!!!" and handing out virtual lolipops.

I'd probably pay to see that.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 21:32 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

"Everything is going according to the Lilim's plans."

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 00:12 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

I dunno, but I'm starting to feel like Sylvester Stalone in Demolition Man.

"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for violation of the verbal paramaters."

I'm glad I'm not the only one that can lay claim to watching that retarded movie.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 03:13 GMT

[Zubon [ANF]]

Well, I just started reading the beginning of this thread, and needless to say I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing. I got about 5 pages in or so.

I was reading about the scene when Kaworu sees the 15 Monoliths and how people thought it was the Angels posing as SEELE and other such theories. Now, please bear in mind that I haven't read anything since about page 5 when you read my theory.

Could it not simply be that the image is metaphorical for Kaworu's introspection? Many people seemed to assume the images must have been planted in his head or were to be taken more literally. NGE is full of Trains of Thought and Streams of Consciousness

When Shinji has his introspective moments what essentially happens is that the different elements, beliefs and experiences are given an image based on his associations. So, if he is feeling insecure he sees Gendo insulting him, or that sort of thing.

In the same way that Shinji's insecurities stem from his avoidant peronality clashing with his status as a pilot, and his perceived position amongst those has met, Tabris' internal issues may well be connected to his position as an Angel () clashing with his position as a potential friend to Shinji combined with his manufacture at the hands of SEELE.

So, like how Shinji visualises his psychological issues as people he connects with that feeling, pehaps Kaworu is imagining the other Angels discussing him or his role, but since he has never met them or actually associated with them, he sees them as SEELE, his parents and his equivalent of Misato, Asuka et al to Shinji. Surely the fact that Misato states that he is talking to himself is meant to imply that it is just his imagination, rather than a Quantum Leap-eque situation where only he can see it.

At this point I must confess that I haven't actually watched this scene, but I picked up the Director's Cut in question just the other day, so after I've had a chance to watch it I may well have something new to offer, but the above is merely my ruminations based on nothing but what I encountered from the first 5 pages of this thread.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 04:19 GMT

[K2Grey [ANF]]

At the moment I feel the above post by Zubon is the best explanation. But I am still willing to entertain strange or unusual theories.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:56 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Well, over in the Adam's Embryo thread, it was proposed that Keel raised Kaworu, and Kaworu sees him as his surrogate father. I personally found this idea adorable. A gruff old cyborg raising a cute little half-angel kid, what could be cuter?

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:58 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

Skipping over the recent unpleasantness...

If this scene is all essentially introspective - and the monoliths aren't missing their "Kaworu's eyes only" status markers along with the "Sound only" ones - then rather than having to double-count Israfel, it makes more sense to me if 01 maps to the first Angel i.e. Adam, and on around. After all, Kaworu is, by this interpretation to all intents and purposes talking to verself in any case. Also, in that we distinguish Tabris and Adam, this is not really any difference from the Hindu gods and their avatars.

There are examples closer to home than the Hindu case which I could cite, but arguments over "similar substance" vs "identical substance" in analysing that series led to flame wars that involved people being burned at the stake

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 19:35 GMT

[OMF [ANF]]

Let's all not forget the substance of Kaworu's "conversation". They plainly tell him in no uncertain terms that Adam's embryo is within Gendou.

How does Kaworu know this. I think this does point to a briefing of some kind.

However, The Eva Monkey's reference to Demolition Man inspired a thought. What if Kaworu has been briefed subconsciously while in status over all these years, much like Simon Pheonix in Demolition Man?

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 21:02 GMT

[Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]]

Let's all not forget the substance of Kaworu's "conversation". They plainly tell him in no uncertain terms that Adam's embryo is within Gendou.

How does Kaworu know this?

He doesn't... even AFTER the conversation! Just like Rei doesn't know how he and she are the same even after he explicitly tells her.

This is why I hate the Director's Cuts...

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 23:29 GMT

[thewayneiac [ANF]]

@Clarkenstein Sensei:

It just occured to me that if you are now allowing gender switch cloning, (Kaworu-girl a clone of Katsuragi), it opens the door to my old theory that Kaworu-guy is a clone of Misato. After all, she had to be there for some reason, like a contact experiment with Adam. You don't just take your daughter along on a extremely dangerous and top secret mission. (I recall that when you couldn't figure out any other reason for her to be there you dismissed it with the non-serious answer "It was take your daughter to work day".) I've always stood by my contention that she was there for some nefarious purpose, and continue to do so.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 00:47 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

@Clarkenstein Sensei:

It just occured to me that if you are now allowing gender switch cloning, (Kaworu-girl a clone of Katsuragi), it opens the door to my old theory that Kaworu-guy is a clone of Misato. After all, she had to be there for some reason, like a contact experiment with Adam. You don't just take your daughter along on a extremely dangerous and top secret mission. (I recall that when you couldn't figure out any other reason for her to be there you dismissed it with the non-serious answer "It was take your daughter to work day".) I've always stood by my contention that she was there for some nefarious purpose, and continue to do so.

WARNING: I am about to make cryptic, Anno-like statements without explaining them. If you hate this, please ignore the following post, because it will frustrate you and make you hate me.

For starters: Misato and Kaworu look absolutely NOTHING alike.

And there is also absolutely nothing nefarious about Misato's presence there. At all.

NGE loves to draw its parallels. Shin-seiki -- whose scattered observations have been proving themselves again, and again, and again... -- very astutely drew a connection between Shinji's presence at Yui's Contact Experiment and Misato's presence in Antarctica. (Not sure if the latter was there at the CE itself. Still investigating.) "I want my child to see the bright future." Once you discover the criminally neglected character of Dr. Katsuragi, it becomes clear that this is, in a sense, absolutely true.

I made a number of somewhat organized posts (the ones that actually have titles and numbers) in the hijacked "Adam's Embryo" thread outlining his character. These got a bad reaction (save from Mr. Tines; forget if anyone else was really following). But I have 2I more or less figured out now*: And, yes, he is the "donor". (And Kaworu's daddy, in effect...) In fact, I can't think of anything offhand I said about him that hasn't come full circle.

But since 2I is obviously not easy to explain -- or else it would have been explained by now -- you guys will just have to wait, unless you manage to figure it out before then.

And, incidentally, Kaworu isn't a clone after all. Pretty much everything that we "knew" about Kaworu is turning about to be completely wrong...

Of course, until the Apocalypse arrives, feel free to disregard everything I've just said.

:retreats into laboratory:

* Few more pieces left to fit in. It's just a matter of time, though.

Let's all not forget the substance of Kaworu's "conversation". They plainly tell him in no uncertain terms that Adam's embryo is within Gendou.

No, they say "restored body". It makes a slight difference.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 01:15 GMT

[Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]]

For starters: Misato and Kaworu look absolutely NOTHING alike.

They look more alike than Kaworu and Kaji do...

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 17:54 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Eh, I think Kaworu and Kaji look something alike, simply because they were made in part for the fangirls to squee over. Misato and Kaworu? I don't think they look a thing alike, or no more than any two characters on the show picked at random do. Some characters just look similar due to the artists drawing them.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 18:02 GMT

[OMF [ANF]]

It just occured to me that if you are now allowing gender switch cloning, (Kaworu-girl a clone of Katsuragi)

The cognitave dissonance increases.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 19:32 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

You know if we are going to switch some character genders.....

Than we need to find Pierre a new name. He looks so much like a girl its not funny. Look at the hair, the face shape....I think I've discussed it in another thread about how similar he looks to Ritsuko



So who's got some good French names for the lovely lady?

And Vlad=Babushka!

Originally posted on: 01-Feb-2006, 08:19 GMT

[Treize X [ANF]]

^Claudia.

I have to interject something, too: Kaji can look like Kaworu, but that isn't exactly more evidence the two are related in some way. Why? Let's ask Hisashi Hirai, the guy who designed Gundam SEED and SEED DESTINY's characters:

"Well, the way I do it, I just swap hair colors and eye colors on the same face!"

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Sadamoto does the same thing, but where do you draw the line, exactly? Of course his characters are going to look alike...they're his characters.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 21:46 GMT

[Dr. Nick [ANF]]

THOUSAND MILLION CURSES, TREIZE X! Get out of my brain and stop stealing things I'm about to say! Waaah~! (And damn, Hirai has actually admitted that? Brutal honesty for the win!)

But anyhow, if Misato doesn't look anything at all like Kaworu (to which I agree with, to some extent), that creates quite a paradoxical situation regarding the alleged connection.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 22:34 GMT

[Treize X [ANF]]

^Well, from what I know he never said that, but hey, creativity never fails. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if he did. The man probably sketches the same face and traces it with new hair each time, then colors it.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 23:27 GMT