Commentary: Episode #01

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Washu-chan wrote:On the Sachiel Lillith thing. It seems very viable. He definatley wasn't hostile; just when he was screwed with (don't know why anyone in their right mind would attack something like that) he screwed back.

Because anything 50+ meters tall that walks around on its own accord is a threat to humanity regardless of whether or not it's minding its own business. Image But I can't see how anyone could attack him either -- I mean, look at that sweet face! :crush:

And when he saw EVA-01 he seemed a bit confused.

Well, his core lighting up was his immediate reaction... Only other times I remember cores glowing:

- Israfel (Kou) right before he attacks EVA-01.
- Yui-sama's core was glowing after it was exposed in EoE. (We see it "glow down" right before the LoL merges into it. :cough:Freudism!:cough: )

So basically, the core glow could mean just about anything. Image Hostility? Excitement? Spiritual instigation? :shrug:

Jinpun wrote:I'm not so sure that is true. After rewatching the scene it seems that Sachiel was still rampaging around, then stopped and looked as the hatch in which EVA-01 emerged from opened up. Perhaps Sachiel somehow "knew" EVA was coming, but the whole "waited for her intently" part I'm not so sure on...

I guess the fact that Sachiel managed to "rampage" to the exact spot where EVA-01 emerged is yet another of those darned "plot contrivances"...

I am curious about his intentions, though. He was going to Tokyo-3 for a reason. Was he after Lilith? Or was he attracted by the Adam factor in the Evas? Considering that the Evas are based so heavily on Adam -- the Angels' progenitor -- I'm wondering how the Angels decide that the Evas are their enemies in the first place. In Sachiel's case, he attacked EVA-01 without much, if any, provocation. Hmm, might as well do a quick breakdown, see how common this is among his brethren:

Angels attack first: Sachiel, Ramiel, Gaghiel, Sandalphon, Matarael, Bardiel, Arael, Armisael
Evas attack first: Shamshel, Israfel, Leliel, Zeruel
N/A [?]: Matarael, Sahaquiel, Ireul

Guess they dig the philosophy, "the best defense is a good offense". Image

So, yeah, what explains Sachiel's actions? He didn't seem like the sort of guy to just go and attack somebody without a reason... or did getting bombed embitter him somewhat? ("Grrr... I'm two-faced and really pissed off! Stupid camera, stop looking at me! :light-blast: )

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 07:37 GMT

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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Well he wasn't "rampaging". He only destroyed some VTOL's that attacked him while he was on an outing in the country and then took a stroll down 4th and Main looking fo a good sushi place.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 13:04 GMT

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Postby Incisivis [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:I think that Dr. Nick is sort of on the right track, but I think you're both giving Gendo too much credit for alleged good intentions; I would say, rather, that Yui nailed it when she said "So, you were afraid of Shinji"...

I'd say it's a combination of fear and a desire to "help". Gendou believes he can't take care of Shinji on his own, because Gendou fears human contact and believes he "Doesn't deserve to be loved", thus he belives Shinji would be better off with someone else.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 17:38 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

Just randomness... I was thinking about the end of episode #01 again, and it finally occured to me that Sachiel was probably on his way to one of the holes he blew through Tokyo-3's armor layers. And EVA-01 was sent up to INTERCEPT Sachiel -- NERV purposely sent the Eva into Sachi's predicted path. Guess I just answered a lot of my own silly questions... but not all of them.

Originally posted on: 27-May-2004, 22:18 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

Quick comment's before work.

005 Slight mistake here, UN tanks are blue as I recall, to distinguish them from other armies.

076 I've always wondered if the whole reason N2 mines were created by Gaianx was simply to make large explosions, without having to worry about the plot consequences of using nukes.

129 I find Gendo's line here interesting. The term "weapon" seems to imply that someone built and sent Sachiel.

131 Fuyutsuki's comment here relates to what I earlier said about Gendo's "weapons" comment. "Upgrade" sounds like a term you'd use for a machine, not a creature.

138 I've got a doctored video of Gendo doing DDR in this scene....

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 16:31 GMT

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Postby NakedEYE666 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

I don't have time to read the thread yet, because I have to go play Risk. (Haha, I'm a jerk) So anyway, my guess as to why Gendou got rid of Shinji is to distance the pain. Having Shinji around caused him pain, especailly after what happened to Yui.

For the part where Rei appears to Shinji, I think it's clearly showing that Rei is an omnipresent God that is viewing the events of Evangelion, and maybe other events. Maybe she's doing it to try and understand humanity, in the hope that people could understand each other. The way that she appears at the start and end of the series supports the suggestion that she's watching over it all. Or maybe she's just obsessed with Shinji, since she only appears to watch him and only appears during the 2 times in the series when Rei is not physically in his area.

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 16:32 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

005- The UN useing military force? Wow...

022- Er, we going to dissucess these can of worms now or latter?

033- Only about a minuet into the show and its already great.

042- We, being the AN- Eva Geek community, believe this is that is know as an AT Jump. Sachiel is using his AT-Field to push himself up into the air, the force if this AT-Field is also what is creating the explosion as it smashes against the ground. We can see this with the Eva's as well, a perfect example being EVA-02 flying into the air in End of Evangelion.

141- I love when Gendo responds like this. Rather then saying "Yes" or "No" he make a statement implying that it will be done because NERV exists. The idea that he will not succeed does not even cross his mind, regardless of the fact that they don't have a pilot for Unit-01 yet, and it has never even been activated, it will be done because it has to be, there is no other option.


005 Slight mistake here, UN tanks are blue as I recall, to distinguish them from other armies.

The color of the UN is blue, and the soldiers were blue helmets. But I don't believe they paint there vehicles blue. Here is a UN vehicle that is not painted blue. It's probably too much work to paint all of the vehicles, then to repaint them everything they get hit.

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 17:13 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

Just in case you didn't (or COULDN'T :glares at thewayneiac: ) get my PM, the first part of Episode #01 is now open for comments. Yee-HAW!!!

Sharp-kun wrote:005 Slight mistake here, UN tanks are blue as I recall, to distinguish them from other armies.

UN tanks in real life, you mean?

076 I've always wondered if the whole reason N2 mines were created by Gaianx was simply to make large explosions, without having to worry about the plot consequences of using nukes.

lol That could well be... On a side note, I believe "N2 mine" refers only to one type of N2 weapon. As we can see, Sachiel had to step on it before it blew up. (The script made a point about the explosion originating BELOW his feet, which is hopefully reflected in my pseudo-translation.) From what I can tell, that squadron of UN fighters seemed to be luring poor Sachi to the spot before hot-tailing it out of there.

129 I find Gendo's line here interesting. The term "weapon" seems to imply that someone built and sent Sachiel.

Yeah, I found some of Gendo and Fuyutsuki's comments quite mystifying myself. I'll rant about them later.

138 I've got a doctored video of Gendo doing DDR in this scene....

Care to share with us poor deprived people?

And here are some comments of my own. I'll post them here first (so you can easily quote them if you like) and add them to the page later.

C002: Can you imagine this scene having BGM? A while back, I received a tidbit about one of the unused music tracks collected on "S2 Works" from a "Shinji Takase":

A-8: This piece was to have marked the underwater arrival of the Third Angel in the first episode of the series, but the idea was eventually scrapped [personal speculation is that this piece would have taken away from the impact that the actual first BGM piece in the series that was used (Angel Attack)] if the foreboding piece was used beforehand. The song was not completely forgotten, as it would be used on the Evangelion: Addition CD as part of the background music for a rather comical Drama piece by the Evangelion cast.

I was never able to ask him where he got this info, as by the time I got around to replying, he had vanished off the face of the Earth. Shame. Still, it sounds like it could very well be true. (In the "S2 Works" Music Menu, the piece A-8 is described as "Angel's appearance B.") FYI, A-8 is indeed used in the "Addition" track "DRAMA 'shuukyoku no tsuzuki' (kadai)", at around 16:20, when the Space Angels show up.

On another note, I've often wondered about the six glowing things on Sachiel's back here; this is the only time they are seen. He does have six holes in his dorsal carapace, so apparently they each contain a source of bioluminescence.

C003: Sachiel is tied with Zeruel as my favorite Angel. For me, Sachi exhibits a great deal more personality than the majority of the Angels. I find him strangely alluring. The funny bird-face, combined with his lankiness, the flipper-feet, and the naive attitude, just make him so... cute. (Yeah, I tend to anthropomorphize the Angels a bit, but, strictly speaking, that's 100% legal.) Props to Yoshitoh Asari for the great creature design, as well. (As we'll learn later, Sachiel's not the only Angel he's responsible for.)

And before I forget to mention it... An excruciatingly little-known fact is that the "ch" in "Sachiel" is pronounced as a hard "k" sound. Or possibly a guttural "kh" if you're into that sort of thing. Embarrassingly enough, I pronounced Sachi's name wrong at one point myself... But now that your ignorance is dispelled, you don't have any excuses.

004: Face, core and exo-ribs, then leg gills. A very interesting design touch, in my opinion; you don't see too many characters that breathe using their thighs and hips. There's a good closeup of these structures later (C098), but even here, you can see that they are essentially three valved lids that contain and protect the feathery reddish gills within. They apparently serve a double purpose underwater -- take in oxygen (since apparently Sachiel does respirate) and help propel him forward. Pretty cool, huh?

020: Breasts are of incredible thematic importance in NGE and, amazingly enough, not merely as fan service. The gargantuan nature of Misato's bust is emphasized early on, as you can see.

098: Apparently, Sachi's gills work both in and out of the water -- very interesting. Considering that he's powered by a Super-Solenoid, I find it odd that he needs to actively respirate in order to regenerate -- but, then, even harpies need to yawn. It's unfortunate that this shot doesn't include the top of Sachiel's pelvis: Production drawings published in Newtype 100% Collection suggest that the air taken in through his legs is expelled through nostril-like structures on his hips.

EYECATCH: And yet another tidbit from the mysterious "Shinji Takase" about NGE's unused BGM:

F-0/F-1: The unused "Eyecatch" pieces. F-0 would have been "Eyecatch Out" (to commercial break), F-1 would have been "Eyecatch In" (back to the show).

For some reason, the idea of hearing a Japanese person shout (or sing) "EVANGELION!" to a cheesy fanfare at every eyecatch makes me a tad queasy. As if that weren't scary enough, Takase said they were even planning to use a little ditty for the subtitles (e.g., the "subtitle" between cuts 034 and 035 in this episode), the piece known only as F-4.


With plenty more to come later, of course. Image

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 17:20 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

01-04:
A very efficient opening sequence, that quickly lets us know that it's 2015, and the world is quite a different place; the coastal cities are under water (a very common trope in futuristic anime), and really weird-looking, big, green things are on the loose...

05-07:
Hmm, shots straight out of any number of Godzilla or other 'Dai-kaiju' (giant monster) flix. One would expect, given their extensive experience with invading giant monsters, that the Japanese would learn that a tank battalion is no match for anything so large and green, but what the hey, there are certain traditions that must be observed in these situations...

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 17:34 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

002-004: This is very efficient storytelling; they not only plunge us right into the action, they also show us that some sort of disaster must have already occurred by showing a submerged modern city.

005: The significance of the cicadas will be explained a little later.

009: The figure running across the tracks in the background is a nice touch.

017: This probably means nothing, but Shinji is staring at the phone the same way he stares at his hand several times in the series.

020: It takes a rather unusual personality to lure a 14 year old boy with this sort of photo.

022: This shot, together with 025, establishes from the beginning that there is something unusual and mysterious about Rei.

031: I think that I would be somewhat more alarmed than this.

036: Now he has the proper expression.

074: Some might think that this is a weird time for fan service, but it's actually always time for fan service.

080: This is a cute shot, but this is all very unrealistic; they couldn't possibly have survived that.

(More to follow)

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 19:09 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

20:
This shot is revealing in more ways than one; it hints at aspects of Misato's personality that aren't fully explicated until the near the end of the series...

21-25: This mysterioso, WTF sequence has always confounded NGE fans; but much later, it becomes apparent that a very profound point about the paradoxical nature of Rei's existence is being subtly established right from the get-go, when we (and Shinji) first lay eyes on her. Of course, at this point, we don't even have any idea who this is. The birds are a nice touch; white doves often symbolize the soul or spirit; and do I need to point out that rather than just one, there's a small flock of them... Image

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 19:40 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:04 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:20:
This shot is revealing in more ways than one; it hints at aspects of Misato's personality that aren't fully explicated until the near the end of the series...

Heh heh... In your opinion, how exactly DOES this photo tie into Misato's odd behavior from #23 and #25'? I'm just curious; it's way too early to mention that stuff in the commentary.

The birds are a nice touch; white doves often symbolize the soul or spirit; and do I need to point out that rather than just one, there's a small flock of them... Image

I wasn't aware of that association... (Then, there are many things I'm not aware of. Image) Where does this white dove bit come from, OOC?

Originally posted on: 30-May-2004, 08:27 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

Reichu wrote:Heh heh... In your opinion, how exactly DOES this photo tie into Misato's odd behavior from #23 and #25'? I'm just curious; it's way too early to mention that stuff in the commentary.

Well, as thewayniac is sort of getting at, that picture is kind of a scandalous way for a 29 y.o. woman to get the attention of a 14 y.o. boy...
I wasn't aware of that association... (Then, there are many things I'm not aware of. Image) Where does this white dove bit come from, OOC?

Well, in the Gospel, a white dove (symbolizing the Holy Spirit) descends upon Jesus when he is baptized by John the Baptist, and nowadays people release white doves at funerals, and so on...

Originally posted on: 30-May-2004, 08:43 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

104: Shinji is being rather picky in this conversation, considering the grave situation.

136: He doesn't act like that impresses him too much.

142: Why do they disappear into a hole in the floor? Where does it go?

146: Gee, who can he mean?

156-156: Shinji seems to have reacted violently to this document, and then pieced it back together. (When he got a load of Misato's photograph?)

163: She's trying to sound casual here, but she's plainly concerned.

Originally posted on: 30-May-2004, 08:54 GMT
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

30:
Now that we get a good look at the big, lovable lug, maybe this would be an opportune time to make a point about Sachiel that I've noticed, but have never seen mentioned here or elswhere, namely how Sachiel' design reflects that of the EVA pilots' plugsuits (or is it the other way around?)
Here is Sachiel, and here are Shinji, Rei, and Asuka, respectively, in their plugsuits.
Note how Sach has this big carapace on his shoulders...
Image

..with a pair of prominent round appatures, front and back.

Compare the the shoulder area of the pilots' plugsuit:
Image

which has a panel with a pair of round thingamabobs (I'm guessing they're some sort of valve).

Next, note the rib-like structure around the core:
Image

and the "scapular exoskeletal protusions" (as Reichu famously once put it) on the back side:
Image

Compare the life-support pack of the plugsuit:
Image

Note how the LS pack wraps around the pilots ribcage, with a red spherical structure over the pilot's heart area. (Asuka's suit doesn't have this feature, for some reason).

Finally, the Angel has gills on his thighs:
Image

and, on the female pilots' suits, that area is set off with black trim:
Image Image

(The lines on Asuka and Rei's suits don't seem to serve any purpose besides emphasizing the feminine curves of their hips and thighs)

So, what then, is the point of this visual paralleling of the Angel and the pilots? I would say that it subtly suggests a theme that becomes more obvious towards the end (#16, #22, and #23), that the Angels serve to 'hold up a mirror', so to speak, to the pilots, forcing them to confront aspects of themselves that they would prefer to not think about. Sachiel is manifesting the 'Angel as mirror to the pilots' theme right from the beginning...

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 21:36 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

Reichu wrote:UN tanks in real life, you mean

Yes. Confirmation would be nice, as its just some tidbit I picked up years ago.


Reichu wrote:On a side note, I believe "N2 mine" refers only to one type of N2 weapon. As we can see, Sachiel had to step on it before it blew up. (The script made a point about the explosion originating BELOW his feet, which is hopefully reflected in my pseudo-translation.) From what I can tell, that squadron of UN fighters seemed to be luring poor Sachi to the spot before hot-tailing it out of there.

Very likely.

Just as there are various types of Nuclear weapons (shells, missiles etc), there are likely various types of N2 weapons.

Reichu wrote:Care to share with us poor deprived people?

Its an AMV I found. I'll try and dig up the link.

Reichu wrote:For some reason, the idea of hearing a Japanese person shout (or sing) "EVANGELION!" to a cheesy fanfare at every eyecatch makes me a tad queasy.

Worked for Gunbuster Image

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 22:16 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

thewayneiac wrote:005: The significance of the cicadas will be explained a little later.

When did you have in mind?

009: The figure running across the tracks in the background is a nice touch.

I always wondered who that was. Considering that the city is completely abandoned, and apparently evacuated at great haste (people even left their cars right in the middle of the streets), what is this random person doing running around? What's Shinji doing there, for that matter? And how the heck did he get there, since apparently nobody besides the UN wants to go near there?

020: It takes a rather unusual personality to lure a 14 year old boy with this sort of photo.

"Lure"? lol Makes Misato sound like some kind of child abductor.

031: I think that I would be somewhat more alarmed than this.

I dunno. If I saw something like Sachiel in real life, I'd probably be, "Kickass!!!"

080: This is a cute shot, but this is all very unrealistic; they couldn't possibly have survived that.

Couldn't have survived being in the vicinity of a blast of nuclear proportions, tumbling around in a car, or both?

EDIT: More replies.

Shin-seiki wrote:Note how Sach has this big exoskeleton process on his shoulders...

Technically, a "process" is something that PROTRUDES. (A ridge on a bone or some such thing.) A more accurate description for Sachi's shoulder-things would be "exoskeletal carapaces", methinks.

I actually did notice the similarity between these and the shape on the corresponding regions of the plugsuits, but I never thought much of it... As usual Image, you're probably onto something. Sachi himself obviously doesn't do the pilots any "favors", though he has unwittingly landed himself the role of "Angel spokesperson" simply due to the fact that he shows up first (not to mention he gets a whole two episodes!). Interesting stuff...

(On a side note, I have some better versions of the pictures you used, so I hope you don't mind me replacing a few when I get around to incorporating your presentations into an appendix or something. ;;>)

and the "scapular exoskeletal protusions" (as Reichu famously once put it) on the back side

I did...? lol Sounds like something I would've said, but I have a bad habit of forgetting these things. It was probably from the thread where you drew parallels between Sachi's four dorsal spikes and the LoL sticking out of Adam's back (before we knew for a fact that it wasn't really part of him). I think I was using 'protrusions' to refer specifically to the spikes, not to the entire scapular structure, since they ARE the only part that actually protrudes.

Note how the LS pack wraps around the pilots ribcage, with a red spherical structure over the pilot's heart area. (Asuka's suit doesn't have this feature, for some reason).

The sphere-thing corresponds more to the core of the Eva (solar plexus) than the heart... As you probably know, one's heart is located to the left of the body's vertical midline. Then again, the sphere-thing does seem to play some cardiac stimulation function in #06, so I should probably just shut up. Image

Also, where does it say that the thing on their back is a 'life support pack'? Not that I think it isn't; I'm just curious.

(The lines on Asuka and Rei's suits don't seem to serve any purpose besides emphasizing the feminine curves of their hips and thighs)

(Where's the Image smiley when you need it?) I agree with you there. And notice, of course, how the male pilots' plugsuits don't have any design elements serving to emphasize any of their more 'masculine' traits. GRRR GIVE ME EQUALITY! (Not that I'd actually want to see a bulky cup covering Shinji's groan. Image )

Originally posted on: 29-May-2004, 22:49 GMT

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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

016: One word to all of you reading. This photo makes absolutley no sense. Shinji is depicted in a school uniform we know that. However High schools in Japan have three uniforms: winter, summer and an in-between (what Shinji is currenly wearing in the episode but with long sleeves). Why Shinji is depicted in a winter uniform is beyond me. 2nd Impact according to endless ramblings by shinjis teacher "eliminated the Seasons" (cept for summer of course). And it is hot as hell in Japan I might add.

017: Will Japan ever get new public phones? That brand of public phone has been used in Japan for like 5 years already.

020: This photo gives us more info about Misato's personality than anything alse in this episode. Besides maybe her little self-conversation.

033: Gendo seems to love being in this position. Throughout the whole series you probably see him sitting like this the most (or something similar).

055: Misatos car seems to have Automatic and Manual transmision.... Not that its important.

062: Of all the weapons used in Evangelion this giant Missle is the most confusing (and the most uesless). WTF do they have a missle this big for? Mounted on a plane no less. They always bombard the angel (or Eva) with any number of weapons and if they get the chance they "bring out the giant missle." And it never works.

074: (to thewayneiac) I believe Evangelion was the first anime to use the phrase "fan-service".

075: The N2 mine is in my view a little less useless (still almost completely useless) but a little more used than the giant missle.

098: See even poor abused Sachiel is sweating in the sweltering heat that is Japan.

099: Never understood the purpose of the extra face. The old one is just fine, why does he need a new one?

105-6: I can't tell. Does Misatos car have a muffler? If not then it is Electric powered which make the batteries make more sense. I don't think her car would need that many batteries just to start it.

127: Not helicopter. VTOL. Basically they can hover and fly like a plane due to the fact that the engines rotate 90 degrees. They either point up to hover or forward to fly faster. VTOL's do exist in real life just not used much. Mostly tansports and usually go by prop power. Just a tidbit. BTW anyone remember what VTOL means? I forgot. Vertical something something. Wait I think it means Vertical Take-off Or lander. Or just Vertical Take Off something.

136: How does his teacher know this?

156: Why is that paper all scratched out in black?

163: Misato seems to be talking as if her dad is alive. I actually find this common with people dealing with dead relatives. They usually don't bring up the subject of their death unless they have to.

PS I realize that soem of these aren't technically comments.

Originally posted on: 30-May-2004, 06:14 GMT

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Postby Ikaruga [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

Washu-chan wrote:055: Misatos car seems to have Automatic and Manual transmision.... Not that its important.

[lame attempt at humor] No, no. I think you're on to something. The fact that Misato's car has Automatic and Maunal tranmission must have some impact on the outcome of Instrumentality later on in the series. [/lame attempt at humor]

Er, don't mind me. I'm just here to watch. I have no idea what to add to this thing. =P

Originally posted on: 30-May-2004, 20:24 GMT

Keisuke-kun [ANF]
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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:05 pm

lol. I admit if you didn't put the quote thing it would be really lame but that was good. lol

Originally posted on: 30-May-2004, 09:23 GMT


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