Why label the New Movies as "fanfiction"?

[esselfortium]

question: that is bad because...? relating to a character is subjective, you said it yourself.

Huh? It's not necessarily; that's not what I was saying at all. I just felt the need to respond to the statement that the new characters were somehow "almost automatically" relatable. :P

[Lucretius]

rebuild!Asuka is closer to my reality at the moment, being a girl who's lonely, but feels she shouldn't be, someone who pushes people away because it's the only way she knows how to handle human interaction. that is a lot closer to who i am, to the way i react in my real life. so it's easier to identify with her-- up to this point, at least. who knows what's going to happen over the next two movies.

So Rebuild!Asuka is a superior character...because her backstory hasn't been revealed yet? She could just as easily have one twice as melodramatic as that of her TV counterpart.

Saying Rebuild is Anno's fanfic of NGE is like saying LOTR was Tolkien's fanfic of the Hobbit.

A fanfic is something a fan unrelated to the creator writes. Anno is the creator of NGE. By that definition he cannot write a fanfic of NGE, he simply making a retelling of it.

Nobody thinks that Rebuild is literally a fanwork. See above posts in this thread.

EOTV mentioned that were tons of other possibilities in the world, many of them completely different in tone from NGE.

I believe the point was that there are different ways of seeing the world, not that Shinji literally inhabits a multiverse.

If you dislike Rebuild you still have the original. Rebuild is not going to infect the original somehow.

(Besides we're only half down with Rebuild. It's impossible to judge it until the whole product is complete).

Statements like these don't really convince anyone of anything. Why try to enforce a false consensus? Also: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=379264#379264

[carla]

@essel-- oh, ok. thanks for clarifying, guess i didn't really get what you were saying there.

@lucretius-- note that i never used the word "superior." i like them both very much. i think NGE!Asuka was an amazing character. and i would like to have more background info on rebuild!Asuka, actually.

i just think the ambiguity about her at this point makes it easier to emphatize with her, because it leaves open the possibilities for other, different circumstances that could've marked her life and made her who she is-- circumstances which could potentially be closer to my own. the uncertainty about her background allows me to think that maybe it was smaller things that defined her, which is more similar to my own situation.

i always felt NGE!Asuka's circumstances were rather unsurmountable-- and i just can't relate to that. i see myself in her reactions, but not in her motivations. it's harder to see my own struggles in her struggles, when her struggles are so, so far beyond mine.

of course, if it turns out rebuild!Asuka does have a background that is just as extreme or maybe even worse than the original, i'll be left feeling a bit like my own problems are insignificant-- like i did with the original. but that's fine, 'cause like i said, i identify with Asuka regardless of her background. it's the way she reacts to the world that reminds me of myself, and that's there whether or not she had a crappy childhood. so although i can relate to both, it's just whether the cause of those reactions is closer to my own or not, that makes one easier to relate than the other. well, so far.

this is complicated, i know. but what can i say, it's the way i feel.

[Ornette]

Let's try to steer this thread back to why Rebuild is sometimes referred to as "Fanfiction". There's the Asuka thread for this, and the general Hate thread.

[carla]

Let's try to steer this thread back to why Rebuild is sometimes referred to as "Fanfiction". There's the Asuka thread for this, and the general Hate thread.

my bad! sorry. i've quoted the relevant posts over at the "shikinami isn't so bad" thread in case anyone wants to add to this Asuka tangent.

[Sun Stealer]

The primary defense around here seems to be that Q and 4.0 will retroactively fix all the poor writing/directing decisions made in 2.xx. Q and Final may turn out to be cinematic masterpieces, and I hope that happens, but it won't make 2.xx a better movie.

I believe the point was that there are different ways of seeing the world, not that Shinji literally inhabits a multiverse.

I interpreted it as meaning both.

Looks like I was right on both counts

well, using your own logic, it looks like you are...? or maybe people are just that predictable. either way, that doesn't change the fact that i meant what i said, and your comment gives me no argument to change the way i think of fanfic.

go back and reread the line Carla. the line immediately before it reads, "then I told myself I was crazy for thinking it."

[carla]

^ i'm clearly completely missing your point, SS, so i'll just quit this line of thinking before saying something wrong.

[Eric Blair]

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here, and say that given the fact that since a large number of people have actually said both here and elsewhere that Rebuild of evangelion is something of little value when compared to the series, that may be the reason why to those who didn't get their rocks off from the movies, Rebuild is seen as "fanfiction", even if the best approximation should be "an adaptation", just like the manga done by Sadamoto.

However, I think the reason why Rebuild is seen as fanfiction is mainly because of the way the characters (and for simplicity I'm going to adhere to the main three here: Rei, Shinji, Asuka) that were portrayed in the series in a certain way, lack that same characterization in the OMA's, making Shinji, Rei and Shikinami less deep and complex as characters compared to their counterparts, even if their back stories are similar or not.

If one analyzes them individually, they seem to be something OUT of fanfiction; Shinji is seen as someone who is more "ballsy" in some ways... more aggressive (just like his manga counterpart), something that is very common in fanfiction; make Shinji less of a pathetic wimp, and make him more assertive in the way he acts and thinks.

Rei is also something out of fanfiction; she goes from silent, cold and distant to someone unable to express the emotions she has yet able to smile, and even "joke" saying something is top secret.

This however can be explained by the progression of movie 1 to movie 2 because in movie 1 and 2 Rei and Shinji are essentially their animu counterparts; not 1:1, but very similar to such a way that fans said "why do we need Rebuild? this is just like watching episodes 1-6 with brand-spanking new animation".

Then there's Shikinami, who is also something out of a fanfiction; the way she is presented, the way her character "develops" (and I'm using the word very, VERY liberally) all of her actions, etc.

If one analyzes how the characters of Shinji Asuka and Rei behave in various forms of fanfiction, versus the series, versus rebuild, we come to the conclusion that the characters are more generic protagonist from a super robot drama: we have the lead male who is afraid of acting, but nevertheless acts, the distant, mysterious girl who slowly begins to open up, and the aggressive, cheerful other girl, token best pilot who is supposed to be the best trained but suffers a devastating blow for plot purposes; This leaves the viewer seeing Rebuild as fanfiction with the feeling that these three characters are expected to behave and react according to what one "understood" from watching the series, but the spirit of the original isn't there.

The only thing that separates Rebuild from fanfiction is the fact that Anno does not require to put a "disclaimer" saying "Evangelios doesn't belong to me."

[Mr. Tines]

even if the best approximation should be "an adaptation", just like the manga done by Sadamoto.

And that's been referred to as a Sadamoto's Rei/Shinji fic before now.

However, I think the reason why Rebuild is seen as fanfiction is mainly because of the way the characters (and for simplicity I'm going to adhere to the main three here: Rei, Shinji, Asuka) that were portrayed in the series in a certain way, lack that same characterization in the OMA's,

That, plus other tropes (extra Children, EVAs and Angels) common in fanfics, even if not in the manga.

The only thing that separates Rebuild from fanfiction is the fact that Anno does not require to put a "disclaimer" saying "Evangelios doesn't belong to me."

[url]http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=252551#252551[/url]

[berto]

This is a rediculus proposition. This is like arguing that a sequel is fanfiction, or a reboot is fanfiction. The Lost World(Novel) is not a fanficc of Jurasic Park(also Novel), it's its sequel. The last Star Trek movie is not a fan fiction, it is a series rebooth. Under that premise I could argue that the End of Evangelion is fan fiction for the same reasons.

[Eric Blair]

You need to re-read what was said, there is nothing saying that a sequel, or a reboot like you mention is fanfiction; a sequel follows something stated before; a storyline, development, etc. while a reboot marks a brand new beginning keeping the spirit of the series true and original.

Rebuild has no Adam, we get a "key", there are no cores so far as we know in the evas that require a mother-son/daughter connection (Mari effectively overrides this with unit 05 AND 02); for all we know, Naoko Akagi COULD BE in unit 00 this time around, even if, paradoxically, we have no reason to believe there is a Naoko Akagi in this universe.

Fanfiction stems from the fact that, while trying to present something grounded in the same concept, the characters are essentially "different" from their original characterization, a fan explores something that he/she feels should have been addressed int he series, etc.

Rebuild isn't made for no other reason than to rack up some yen, and sell merchandise; it's not made out of Anno's latent need to show us he has artistic integrity; that flew out the moment he decided he needed a new pilot, who just so happened to be a girl with huge tits, glasses, and a school girl uniform.

Whether Mari has a real reason to be there or she's simply eye candy, does not take away the fact that Mari, Rei, Shinji, and Shikinami are simple versions of character archetypes who are essentially the opposite of what they stood for, respectively, in Eva (excluding of course Mari).

And that may be why the fans who felt personally cheated and/or offended by it, are categorizing it as fanfiction.

[Sun Stealer]

Because it's going to be said again and again. No, when we call it fanfiction, we do not mean it is literally fanfiction. It can't be because Anno is the one doing it. We do not think that there is a man masquerading as Anno, whom once we capture, it will turn out to have been Old Farmer Touji, who was keeping Anno locked up in a basement while he went about ruining his life's work. When we call it fanfiction, we mean it as an insult, highlighting that 2.xx is not up to the standard Anno set for himself, and as Eric put it so well, that it is not true to the spirit of Eva.

Now, he can have the Key of Marmaduke or whatever it was, and the characters can be different, even if only a little, so long as it is true to the spirit of evangelion and is up to quality. Sadamoto's manga, while the characters are for all intents and purposes, compeltely different characters, and there are some major derivations from the plot, no one calls it fanfiction, because it is still true to the spirit of the series and is excellent quality (and it is licensed by Gainax, of course). And when we say the spirit of the eva, (because I know this will be nitpicked next as if no one has heard of the phrase, "the spirit of ___") we do not mean a literal spirit, nor do we mean it lacked enough mindfuckery, or that it wasn't horribly bleak and depressing enough, we mean it wasn't true to the godd*mn spirit of Shin Seiki Evangelion.

tl;dr: we call it that because it is not up to snuff.


I'm starting to think this thread is repeating itself, the defenders all seem to be suffering from a bout of literalmindedness, and the anti-rebuild crowd is pulling their hair out trying to get the other side to understand the concept of a metaphor, and nothing particularly constructive seems to be happening as a result, other than providing an outlet to keep the full force of this inferno from scorching the rest of the threads.

[berto]

You can't have film quality animation for 26 episodes, nor do you have the time to present a story of equal magnitude.

I do agree that the Rebuild series is not on par with the original in many aspects but I also think that people are over reacting.

[Ornette]

yeah, I think we're done here.