Story and Character Improvements

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Reichu » Thu May 27, 2010 11:51 pm

View Original PostIkariRei wrote:The only thing i count as improvement are the Angels. They are SO much more badass they made the battles for me so intense i felt i was watching them for the very first time. :kensuke_drool:

The NGE Angels will probably seem rather quaint to anyone who sees NME first. Somehow, though, I can't bring myself to really think any less of them... They occupy their own special place in anime history.

And some of the Angels are changed so radically that they barely bare any resemblance to their ancestors. I guess some might regard complete reimaginings as "improvements", but when something diverges so heavily from the original, and ends up feeling quite different as a result, can it really be regarded as "better"?

But this whole thread is about subjective opinion anyway, so what the hell am I doing?
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Postby IkariRei » Fri May 28, 2010 4:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:I guess some might regard complete reimaginings as "improvements", but when something diverges so heavily from the original, and ends up feeling quite different as a result, can it really be regarded as "better"?


Well the basics are still there and it's only a physical change.Shamsel was pretty much the same, Ramiel is still a blue cube that annihilates everything within a range but in the new movie takes other forms and actively defends/offends. I will agree Matariel was completely different (i'm not even sure if it was Matariel bdw) Sahaqiel has it's basic drop and bomb goal and it turned into the funny 3-eyed ranbow colored thingy from the series but in space it looked more like Leliel (maybe they just liked the desing but couldn't add the Angel in the movies) and there's additional human-like form that pierced the Eva's arms.
Bardiel no change besides growing another pair of hands which looked like Asuka's in plug suit and Zeruel still looked like the old one except it ate Eva 00 (which is more like plot change than Angel change) and i doubt anyone will dare to say he has toilet paper arms again. :)

The story is still blurry but if we're talking about characters..
Happy emotional Rei, cute tsundere Asuka and raging red eyed Shinji actively saving someone without his mommy are just not my thing. In fact after i watched the movie i took out the TV series dvds and watched them again cause i felt i was missing something.
That's why i didin't even want to comment on the "character improvement" at first.

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Postby Reichu » Fri May 28, 2010 7:47 am

@IkariRei: I guess if you're a die-hard Angel fan like me the changes may feel a bit more heavy. Zeruel, for example, especially not only looks incredibly different (I gotta disagree with you on that front), he (er... she?) feels like a totally different "character" in this incarnation. At least, within my own idiosyncratic version of reality. :tongue: I'm really quite fond of the original vaguely humanoid, monolithic Zeruel -- he's like something out of primitive art, and a steadfast, hulking tower of unstoppable power.

They could have revised him without altering the basic design aesthetic, and still reached the necessary levels of "badass", but they decided to take things in a rather different direction, not keeping much aside from the cutter arms and the general shape of the face intact. Their prerogative, but to me we've gone into "too different to be 'better'" turf.

raging red eyed Shinji actively saving someone without his mommy

Well, don't be too sure about that just yet...
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri May 28, 2010 10:33 am

An improvement from 2.0 is they got rid of Misato's stupid mini-orgasm with Kaji in the NERV Cafeteria. Thankfully they reanimated it to be a more subtle and human emotion.

More "I still have feelings for Kaji" and less "Oh Kaji-kuuuuuuunnn..... shit, do I have extra underwear in my locker?"

Though they still kept the "So Pervy I need a Shower" Crotch Shot of Asuka. So that's a negative.

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Postby Onii-chan » Fri May 28, 2010 10:46 am

I think it's too early to comment on the story as a whole, but one of the best improvements of rebuild over the original series is showing how much Shinji suffers (physically) in the Eva.

It really helps to show why he is so reluctant to pilot. Every time Shinji pilots the Eva he experiences physical pain, and yet he still pilots it time and time again. Why *does* he pilot it?

:shinchair:

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Postby JoeD80 » Fri May 28, 2010 11:12 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:they still kept the "So Pervy I need a Shower" Crotch Shot of Asuka

What shot is that? Nothing is jumping to mind. Guess I need to give back my Perv member's card.

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Postby simon » Fri May 28, 2010 11:24 am

I won't forgive them for cutting out Yui's role in saving the day while battling Zeruel. they just disposed of the most awesome climax they could have used in the second movie finale.


And to think that to make an ABSOLUTELY MARVELOUS movie they had to just shorten the original scenario and leave the most important stuff.

and they didn't even manage that, god damn it. Instead they gave us some motivational bullshit at the end. "And remember kids, if you try hard enough, you'll surely succeed!" said Eva the pooh!



Add me to the RoE haters list
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Postby Reichu » Fri May 28, 2010 11:32 am

@Onii-chan: Is the difference really as significant as you're making it out to be? I mean, sure, with an enhanced budget and without the limitations imposed by TV censorship, they can mutilate the Evas even more, and do things like draw attention to pilot injuries by having them blow er, glow and emit thousands of tiny bubbles.

But NME's ability to push the envelope aside, the pain aspect is pretty well established in the original from what I can tell. Shinji is totally useless in the Sachiel fight due to fear and being completely overwhelmed by the Eva's pain. They imply lingering trauma twice afterwards: when he stares at his left arm catatonically at the hospital, and via the zoom-in on his right eye while he's barraged with a flashback. He sobs after the Shamshel fight (he's emotionally overwhelmed, but Eva-01 also got her hands fried and her abdomen pierced); he has his first "I quit!" episode afterward. He gets boiled alive in the entry plug courtesy of Ramiel, and predictably isn't too keen on going out there again. (But after that, any reluctance Shinji has is more or less psychological/emotional, and physical pain seems beside the point.)

(EDIT: Also forgot that Toji says, "We saw how much you suffered in the Eva", in the event the audience needed some additional assistance.)

So for you, was the original show somehow too "low-key" about the pain stuff, and they needed glowing, boiling vicarious wounds to get the point across?

View Original Postsimon wrote:I won't forgive them for cutting out Yui's role in saving the day while battling Zeruel. they just disposed of the most awesome climax they could have used in the second movie finale.

I really hated the 2.0 finale, too -- at first. But I'm appreciating it more and more on its own merits. There's something really provocative about it.

As a die-hard Yui fan, I'm also a bit upset that no mention is made of her having a role during the finale (as in #19, what with the whole "she's awakened" bit), but things also seem a bit too weird to attribute everything that's happening to Shinji. Of course, that is the impression people tend to get, but it definitely remains to be seen if that impression is correct.

The supreme irony of the finale has been often noted. You only seem to be considering the events on an entirely superficial level.

Add me to the RoE haters list

Indifference or ambivalence might be wiser at this point. Last thing you want is for the other movies to come out, discover that the completed work isn't so bad after all, and have to take your foot out of your mouth. Not saying it will happen, but it's a possibility.
Last edited by Reichu on Sat May 29, 2010 1:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Taekmkm » Fri May 28, 2010 11:35 am

Instead they gave us some motivational bullshit at the end. "And remember kids, if you try hard enough, you'll surely succeed!" said Eva the pooh!


And end the world because of selfishness. Way to twist it.
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Postby JoeD80 » Fri May 28, 2010 11:41 am

Equating success with letting the planet burn around you!

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Re: Story and Character Improvements (SPOILERS)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri May 28, 2010 12:19 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Despite the fact that we still don't have the slightest idea what her deal is, Mari is much better defined than she was in the series.
Changing Sarai's name like that was just as gratuitous as changing Asuka's.
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Postby Legendary » Fri May 28, 2010 1:11 pm

View Original Postsimon wrote:and they didn't even manage that, god damn it. Instead they gave us some motivational bullshit at the end. "And remember kids, if you try hard enough, you'll surely succeed!" said Eva the pooh!

Yeah, that's exactly the message. Because Asuka is the most popular girl in school and the best Eva pilot right now, isn't she? Because Rei has succeeded in making the only people who matter to her happy, hasn't she? Because Shinji and his father finally have a relationship, don't they?

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Postby Heromaster111 » Fri May 28, 2010 4:44 pm

View Original PostJoeD80 wrote:What shot is that? Nothing is jumping to mind. Guess I need to give back my Perv member's card.


After the battle with Sahaquiel the scene with Asuka in bed and as she rolls over we get a nice upclose shot of her crotch.
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Postby simon » Fri May 28, 2010 4:56 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Indifference or ambivalence might be wiser at this point. Last thing you want is for the other movies to come out, discover that the movies aren't so bad after all, and have to take your foot out of your mouth. Not saying it will happen, but it's a possibility.


All I dream about is taking my foot out my mouth ;]

Also, I wonder what do you English-speaking guys feel when you hear Japanese trying to talk English at the beginning of the movie?


are you tearing your ears off your head like me?
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Postby Heromaster111 » Fri May 28, 2010 4:58 pm

When Kaji speaks I am the rest of the english in the movie is fine
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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Fri May 28, 2010 5:11 pm

Also, I wonder what do you English-speaking guys feel when you hear Japanese trying to talk English at the beginning of the movie?

Maybe they got their english lessons from Jack King.
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Postby Jinroh » Fri May 28, 2010 5:36 pm

Actually I don't understand how it is possible they accepted the actual Kaji english dub. I mean, if they had spent like 10 more minutes on it, he could have produced something that sounded like english.

Honestly without the subtitles I couldn't understand what he was saying. That was some hardcore engrish.

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Postby Onii-chan » Fri May 28, 2010 6:43 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:@Onii-chan:So for you, was the original show somehow too "low-key" about the pain stuff, and they needed glowing, boiling vicarious wounds to get the point across?

I'm mainly comparing 1.0 with eps 1-6 (too early for me to make calls about 2.0 as I've only seen it without subtitles). I agree that the pain aspect is in the series as well, but I think that 1.0 gets this across better than eps 1-6 alone do. It's not just the glowing and the wounds, Shinji's screams seem more blood curdling in NME compared to NGE. (In eps 1-6 anyway; the scream at the end of ep 18 is something missing from NME). Add to that the longer initial encounter with Ramiel and the added punishment he gets there.

It's been a while since I last watched NGE, so it could just be my memory failing me or my subconscious trying to justify NME.

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Postby Tarage » Fri May 28, 2010 10:33 pm

Not really sure if this has been said yet, but has anyone noticed that in the preview for Q Quickening, Asuka's plugsuit has two rows of those blue spiky things instead of one? I'm not sure if this is important at all. Did she have two or one in the original series?

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Postby Nonoriri » Fri May 28, 2010 10:43 pm

It's a new plugsuit.


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