Split: Rebuild 2.0 pace/plot complaints

[NAveryW]

Being the perfectionist I am, I don't consider a movie good unless I consider it fantastic. Does that make any sense?

[The Goose]

I'm not saying that everyone here has to see the complete film with subs to decide that some film elements are good or not, but talking about how the character development is bad and not understanding the dialogue doesn't make any sense.

However, some there are some things one can decide without seeing subs is whether the action elements work. And even those kind of elements are hard to pick apart if the quality you're viewing the film isn't the best. But, for people trying to pick apart the plot/character/pacing, maybe you should wait for the subs to come out.

[eva0313777]

some of you guys complain so much,i'd like to see you try to condense 13 episodes into 1 film in 90 minutes while trying to add new elements and character development.and yes i did mean 1 film.i'm actually glad with this film,it's not like the crappy new gurren lagann movie,which just condensed 14 episodes into 1 film with like 2 or 3 new scenes

[I Accidentally Dracula]

some of you guys complain so much,i'd like to see you try to condense 13 episodes into 1 film in 90 minutes while trying to add new elements and character development.

uh

It's not like Gainax or Studio Khara or anybody was actually forced to make Rebuild this way and had no choice but to make the job harder for themselves. Why the hell should I feel sorry for them in that regard?

That's not to say Mari should be excluded entirely, but, between making a semi-stable adaptation without her and inserting her in a way that effectively gives the original cast the finger and forces a bunch of nonsensical plot devices to make a role for her, it's the lesser of the two evils.

[Soul Fire]

That's not to say Mari should be excluded entirely, but, between making a semi-stable adaptation without her and inserting her in a way that effectively gives the original cast the finger and forces a bunch of nonsensical plot devices to make a role for her, it's the lesser of the two evils.

Oh come on. I find it hard to work out how you have developed such an acute hatred for this movie without even seeing it in it's full entiety and without the full picture.The plot isnt completely nonsensical and you really should just WAIT AND SEE what happens in the next lot of movies and when the subs for 2:0 are out in thier entirety. You have basically picked on two things to do with the plot and blown them out of preportion. We have a bunch of scenes that we do not fully understand and think are poor because we have only translated the most important scenes. I say 'we' but it has been the hard work of other individuals on here that have translated a lot of the scenes for us. The scenes they have translated thus far are excellent in my estimation but we are still left with scenes like the one with mari and Shinji at the end or the entire unit 5 battle which to be honest we really should wait and see translated before we pick holes in them becasue we dont understand what is going on or how it relates to the rest of the plot.

I'm a film student half way through my degree and Im extraordinarilly picky about what I see also. I do understand however that we are always going to be critical of this movie as we are exspecting it to live up to it's NGE values regardless of what people claim about respecting it as a new universe but to be honest this isnt designed with hard core fans in mind only. It is designed with a bigger audience in mind this time round. We want these movies to be perfect and the minute it offers us something that isnt what we are used to seeing people seem to throw there toys out of the pram.

It's like this issue that some seem to have with the pilots swapping out and piloting each others evangelion. The topic has always been slightly ambigous. There's the duel syncronisation of Shinji and Asuka in unit2 there is the fact that both Rei and Shinji synced with each others evangelions. ( yes I know that they are better suited for that task than others). Of course Toji being used as the test pilot in unit 3 was never fully explained either. We only know that everyone was up for pilot duty in that class and that we had an idea that evnagelions had the pilots mother's souls in them*. In which case why didnt the entire class work out that at some point they had all lost mothers. I'm getting a bit off track here but like I said there has always been a certain amount of ambiguity in evangelion and that I think becasue this is rebuild people are happy to jump all over the slightest little blemish.

We dont know the full details. We dont know what or who Mari is and we certainly dont know the full dynamics of how the evangelions work this time round. It's just a case of wait and see. Perhaps in the new movie we will be given information that goes along way to explaininign all these things. We will at least build up a better understanding of how everything gels together as of the next movie. This movie had little to explain from the first movie but was rather the film that sets up the rest of the plot. It introduces a lot of change to us but that is no reason to exspect it to all make perfect bloody sense stright away and more over to make any sort of sense without a full quality subbed release.

Fine those limiters look too big to fit in unit 2 but it's not the end of the world is it. There's tons of things that are not really explained in the evnagleion universe like that. It does seem to be on the other hand, typical evangleion where we are only given half the facts at any one time and have ample amounts of character development. A large porportion of the angels are out of the way I believe now so that leaves quite a lot of space for plot and character development in the next film dont you think? Im really looking forward to the next film becasue this film has left us with so many mysteries.. Like I said we will have to wait and see and have a little patience.


There are some annoying bits that I dont like. The exagerated facial exspressions and the whole issue with certain pieces of music making the film seem much more lighthearted than it really should be in my mind. I also have a slight issue with Mari's first meeting with Shinji and a small niggle with the whole beast mode thing though the scene where it activated was one of my favourites. I liked the beast mode to an exstent however in that it was something that played heavilly upon the Eva's being organic and 'beasts' at the end of the day. I dont really think the beast mode is that much of a big deal in that we have seen eva's going beserk before and the line between pilot control of eva and eva control of eva has always been thin. The only difference this time round is A:
We see what is going on in the cockpit
and B: The pilots seem to have a certain amount of control or will involved over the process.

However, I do want more explaination of how it actually works.

The unit 03 battle was extremely well done and shocked us with the nursery rhyme music alongside that scene. That is just one of those things that confirms to me that despite this films frankly small shortcomings, this is still eva and still able to shock. I think the innitiation of third impact at the end and actually being able to see Shinji's concern for Rei manifest itself into anger/piloting was excellent. The battle scenes and the scenes right at the end were edited very well and in a very short amound of time we have had a lot of character development. Rei ( from the little I have seen of her dialogue) shows her lack of exsperience in the real world quite amply by arranging a party for Shinji with his father when any other character would have just left the two of them to it. I wouldnt try and meddle in those things but then Rei doesnt really know what she is doing. Rei actually shows some progress in this film and to be honest I think it is totally fine since in the origional series we were shown her talking quite lively with Gendo outside unit 00 and yet we never see her talk to Shinji like that in the series.

I like this film I think half of the things people have said they dont like about it are blown out of preportion and do not consider that we might actually get explainiations later on. There are small mistakes in editing and pacing as far as I can see and there was obviously not really enough time to fit all the stuff into the short running time but I dont think this is a bad movie yet. Slating it both without a full understanding of it's dialogue and a full quality image isnt going to help in the long run is it. It's like trying to review a film with only half of the scenes included.

* If Iam wrong please correct me on this as Im not as learned in evangelion as some of you on here.

[I Accidentally Dracula]

We dont know the full details. We dont know what or who Mari is and we certainly dont know the full dynamics of how the evangelions work this time round.

At two-thirds of the way through the whole story, we should certainly have a basic idea.

[Soul Fire]

At two-thirds of the way through the whole story, we should certainly have a basic idea.

Yes perhaps but like I said maybe we will have a better idea once the full subs come out and we have a proper quality version of this film to watch. We can scrutinise every last nut and bolt once we have a dvd or bluray quality version of this film and perhaps we will be enlightened. You say two thirds of the way through but there are still 2 other films to come yet. Im not entirelly sure about how they are breaking the last two down and so cant say for sure. You might be right and they have cocked up by not leaving themselves enough leeway to explain the couple of things that dont make complete sense in this movie but like I said it is only 2 or 3 things such as beast mode, Mari and the vatican treaty to offer explainations about really isnt there* so I hold my hands up on this one and say, I know no more than you do but that I will not jump all over this movie until I have see how the last 2 compliment it.


* These are the things which people percieve to be a result of bad plot or pacing and not neccessarilly something like the end of the film with 3rd impact which will almost certainly have to be explained.

[schismatics]

We dont know the full details. We dont know what or who Mari is and we certainly dont know the full dynamics of how the evangelions work this time round.

At two-thirds of the way through the whole story, we should certainly have a basic idea.

I don't think we even got a basic idea about the Evas until after Zeruel in the original series anyways.

[CyberXIII]

I've seen most of the movie, and honestly I have to echo some of the complaints here.

And I'll echo some other people's complaints in that the ones who don't understand Japanese probably aren't the best ones to trust on whether or not the the film succeeds.

QFT.

Personally, I think most of these complaints are somewhat petty. I've enjoyed the movies so far. I just hope it doesn't end like the original series did...

[JimmyWolk]

At two-thirds of the way through the whole story, we should certainly have a basic idea.

I don't think we even got a basic idea about the Evas until after Zeruel in the original series anyways.

Well, the difference is that with the series you at least didn't have to wait months or even years for these answers. XD
The "mean" thing about this is that the big questions aren't "what's the reason/mystery behind this and that?" but rather "why is this and that different from the original?". I think newcomers won't bother all that much about the treaty, Mari, changes about Asuka, this version of TI, etc, and rather just take it for what it is. It's the die-hard fans, who are left to wonder mostly because they "already know what happens when/how/why", and that just doesn't mix up anymore.
So it's kinda true, when seeing the series the first time, I couldn't hardly make sense of everything said and done either and just accepted it for the moment in hope to get it explained in the end... (...which... wasn't and the gaps had to be filled by complimentary informations on the net, learning that there's also a movie.... >_>)
But this time, I can't just tune out everything I know of the series, the things that made me attached to it, so I can't just detach myself completely from it, telling myself Rebuild is something entirely new of its own and just go with the flow. There are certain things that I expected to be addressed, certain things I'd like to be addressed, and while maybe not necessarily in 2.0 already, with it instead of doing so bringing up even much more that "has" to be addressed with all it's yet unexplained changes, it puts a lot of pressure on 3.0/4.0

[Mr. Tines]

so I can't just detach myself completely from it, telling myself Rebuild is something entirely new of its own and just go with the flow.

This.

If it were a new series, with a new title and new cast -- Raki, Yuki Nagato, Kaede Fuyou, Kozue Kaoru, and some random adults, say -- then it would be fine for something pitched somewhere on the spectrum from Gurren Lagann to RahXephon.

Unfortunately it has a millstone around its neck in the form of Anno's accidental work of genius.

[I Accidentally Dracula]

Let me try to generalize Rebuild's problem as a remake / alternate universe.


Let's say you write a story about a guy named Jimmy. In this story, Jimmy finds out his girlfriend is cheating on him and, in a fit of depression, goes out for a sporadic walk in a thunderous rainstorm and gets struck by lightning.

Ten years later, you decide to remake this story in a lighter tone so that after breaking up, Jimmy goes out to play the lottery. He becomes a millionaire overnight, and at this point it's obvious that we as readers are supposed to feel better for Jimmy. And then he gets struck by lightning on a sunny day during his victory speech.

The event of "Jimmy getting struck by lightning" no longer makes sense in this new universe due to the fact that it was directly tied to a specific interdependent series of events that the old version developed and the new version removes. And, rather than stop to explain why this event still fits the new universe, the writer actually cuts into that opportunity by taking time adding a new subplot concerning Jimmy's dog looking for his bone.


Do you sorta kinda see why I think 2.0 is so idiotic now?

[schismatics]

And then he gets struck by lightning on a sunny day during his victory speech.

[Soul Fire]

Do you sorta kinda see why I think 2.0 is so idiotic now?

No- As usual you have blown your little story out of porportion. You are determined to not like this new film or even consider that it has good points. That story made even less sense than what you were saying before. Seriously If you hate the rebuild movie so much why are you going out of your way to make sure EVERYBODY knows. It has it's flaws but it is nothing like the abomination you have cooked up.

I agree with Mr Tines how ever that this series of films will always be burdened by anno's origional works. It will probably never be as good as them either for a lot of people but then that is how it is with nearly every remake I've ever seen.

[I Accidentally Dracula]

No- As usual you have blown your little story out of porportion.

And as usual, you simply state that I'm wrong without elaborating on why I'm wrong. So we're pretty much even.

You are determined to not like this new film or even consider that it has good points.

I guess I'm kind of person who can't pause to enjoy the "good points" when they're not really good after being written atop a summit of character un-development and rubbish plot devices.

[schismatics]

Angry threads are angry.

[Soul Fire]

I guess I'm kind of person who can't pause to enjoy the "good points" when they're not really good after being written atop a summit of character un-development and rubbish plot devices.

So there isnt a single part of the new movie you liked. You thought the animation was crap, the battles boring and every single thing about the plot poor. I just dont see it and I wont buy it.

I didnt say you are wrong did I. I think you are being melodramatic with your crusade against the latest rebuild film and despite me spending time to show you that your arguments against various plot points are not completely nonsensical, you have ignored my arguments and just carried on splitting hairs and so on.

Im not saying your wrong, I'm saying I dont particularly feel your arguments against this film are fair. Im saying you have gone over the top and over the top on a film you havent even seen the full dialogue for yet no less.

Angry threads are angry.

Ahh we love each other really

Dean

[I Accidentally Dracula]

Angry threads are angry.

Bad things make me angry.

So there isnt a single part of the new movie you liked.

Not really. The party only stopped when EVA-04 blew up.

You thought the animation was crap

I... haven't even said anything about the animation. Not directly, anyway. There's my recurring "'Because it looked pretty' [which is an automatic admission that the animation is nice, btw] isn't an excuse for ruining the characters and story" argument, but that's ... that.

the battles boring

I think the only battle I've criticized for being outright boring was Bardiel, and that's just because cutting and pasting the framework and battle choreography to an entire episode without leaving any of the underlying reasoning of the original version intact is incredibly boring. On top of being poorly thought out and yadda yadda yadda.

Everything before that was nice. Zeruel was interesting (not to imply that I'm for a second ignoring the "Things are only happening this way because the Bardiel chapter forced it" aspect to it), until it turned into Gurrengelion. That just leads back to my previous point about eyecandy.

and everysingle thing about the plot poor

Every single thing about half of plot, actually.

[Soul Fire]

I think the only battle I've criticized for being outright boring was Bardiel, and that's just because cutting and pasting the framework and battle choreography to an entire episode without leaving any of the underlying reasoning of the original version intact is incredibly boring. On top of being poorly thought out and yadda yadda yadda.

And this is the Bardiel battle you didnt like becasue it was Asuka piloting and not Toji and becasue of the circumstances leading up to that?

I didnt find that battle boring I found it to be quite disturbing and it hit a nerve for me when watching it. I thought the cinematography of the scenes as we are shown Shiji's face and the action out side along side that music was wholly disturbing. We really do dissagree on this dont we?



Ahh well it could be worse. You could be a Haruhi fan about now.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one. Some are just crustier than others.

On a side note I'm tempted to leave this board for the next few weeks cause of the juvenile negativity. Can't we all just get along?