Vatican Treaty

[schismatics]

^ See episode 8. Asuka is plugged into a power supply on one of the boats.

[Reichu]

But it wouldnt matter since EVAs have a limted range of mobiltity, so theres no way Japan could invade a country with an EVA. They could try while using the 5 miuntes of battery time, but it still wouldnt matter because they can't swim eithter.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=244913#244913 is the thread we want for whatever tangent may manifest itself. (And see also linked post and what's below it.)

[I Accidentally Dracula]

It also seems Eva-02 is under European control, but the details of the treaty was talked about earlier (which was why I missed it in the conversation with Asuka while Eva-02 was being put away) and there's probably more context to it then. Someone will have to translate it from the transcript.

This is making less and less sense.

What "context"? The only thing left for the treaty to do is theoretically outline that, in a situation where an Angel completely flattened Japan and incapacitated Units 00, 01, and 02 without actually destroying or deactivating them in some way, any neighboring country with perfectly working Evas would be forced to sit back and watch the whole of humanity be screwed unless the Angel decided to enter their physical territory at its own leisure.

... why the hell did they bother to build giant cyborgs to have a war with aliens again?


On the naturally limited mobility issue: It doesn't matter. If Japan wanted to do a 180 and suddenly use Evangelions as weapons of war against mankind, it wouldn't be very hard for a defending country to blow up the boat / truck / whatever powering them and cut off threat at the source. Heavily armored alien clones may be indestructible to conventional weapons, but man-made power generators fueling them through a hard cable certainly aren't.

[UltraBlackPilot]

^ See episode 8. Asuka is plugged into a power supply on one of the boats.

What happens when you reach land and the end of the umbilacal cord?

[schismatics]

... why the hell did they bother to build giant cyborgs to have a war with aliens again?

Cuz its so much cooler that way :P

But with the whole treaty thing you have to take into context world politics. If one country gets to build some giant fukcin' robots then why can't another? Plus there'd be countries a little suspicious of others that have an army of giant robots.

[I Accidentally Dracula]

If one country gets to build some giant fukcin' robots then why can't another? Plus there'd be countries a little suspicious of others that have an army of giant robots.

And this just leads back to issue that Japan neither built nor technically owns Unit 03.

And, come on, they personally don't even want to own it with the omen of Unit 04 floating over everybody's heads.

[UltraBlackPilot]

Plus there'd be countries a little suspicious of others that have an army of giant robots.

If they had no way of getting to me why be suspicious of them no harm done.

[Ornette]

What "context"? The only thing left for the treaty to do is theoretically outline that, in a situation where an Angel completely flattened Japan and incapacitated Units 00, 01, and 02 without actually destroying or deactivating them in some way, any neighboring country with perfectly working Evas would be forced to sit back and watch the whole of humanity be screwed unless the Angel decided to enter their physical territory at its own leisure.

Like, what the treaty actually says and why it was put in place to begin with? And why they were talking about it after the damage to Eva-00. I just get the feeling that there's a lot of speculation going on that is based on something someone else said about a movie only a handful of people have seen (and even those people are going from memory), so a bit of "context" about the what and why's may shed some light on the discussion one way or the other.

[scarmullet]

To tell the truth, such a law would make sense. It could prevent one nation from getting enough EVAs to effortlessly conquering its neighbors.

But it wouldnt matter since EVAs have a limted range of mobiltity, so theres no way Japan could invade a country with an EVA. They could try while using the 5 miuntes of battery time, but it still wouldnt matter because they can't swim eithter.

Tech growth is always constant. Soon enough, battery technology would advance enough to power an EVA for hours on full power mode. Also remember, they mentioned in Episode 8; a type of equipment for an EVA which would let them function in the water.

[Otakon 08 Ikari]

I think its one of those "better safe then sorry" kinda deals.

[I Accidentally Dracula]

Tech growth is always constant. Soon enough, battery technology would advance enough to power an EVA for hours on full power mode. Also remember, they mentioned in Episode 8; a type of equipment for an EVA which would let them function in the water.

Then, uh, shouldn't it be the quality of the technology itself be what the Vatican Treaty limits, rather than the quantity?

Surely the world would see one independent Evangelion with an infinite power supply to be a bigger threat than ten interdependent Evangelions with gimp power supplies.

[bladerj]

Seele sure didnt give a damn about with its eva production series.....

[Ingrod]

What "context"? The only thing left for the treaty to do is theoretically outline that, in a situation where an Angel completely flattened Japan and incapacitated Units 00, 01, and 02 without actually destroying or deactivating them in some way, any neighboring country with perfectly working Evas would be forced to sit back and watch the whole of humanity be screwed unless the Angel decided to enter their physical territory at its own leisure.

Like, what the treaty actually says and why it was put in place to begin with? And why they were talking about it after the damage to Eva-00. I just get the feeling that there's a lot of speculation going on that is based on something someone else said about a movie only a handful of people have seen (and even those people are going from memory), so a bit of "context" about the what and why's may shed some light on the discussion one way or the other.

Its true, perhaps the Vatican Treaty have another meaning in the context of the main plot, and nothing to do with Asuka plot.

The reason for explain Asuka in EVA-03 can be more simple, they cant have four EVAs active in Japan because they only have three active pilots (nobody in Nerv knows who Mari is). That give a plot reason to put Asuka in 03 and put on hold 02 without the need for create a Vatican Treaty.

Also, perhaps SEELE forced that situation, if they have suspiction about the Gendo plans they can use some international legality trick to have under control Gendo activities in Japan. Plus, if they send Mari to Nerv to stole the EVA-02 for stop the Gendo plans in colaboration with Kaworu in EVA-06 (build by SEELE in the moon) with more reason they need do that. Putting the 02 on hold leave free space to Mari for accomplish her mission.

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

There's a lot of credible arguments here. I agree with the proliferation argument, but the reason they had to deactivate 02 is still getting to me.

I'm just hoping this whole plot point comes full circle in 3.0 and starts making sense. Unless it impacts the plot in some significant and credible way, this is just going to be written off as a half-assed plot device and I hope that doesn't happen.

[Ingraman]

Any ideas about what IPEA stands for? The "A" is almost surely for Agency; the "E" for Evangelion/s maybe, but the rest? Anyway, the logo is cool...

[NemZ]

I'm guessing:

International
Proliferation of
Evangelions
Administration

[Soul Fire]

What makes me laugh about this whole situation is that Asuka would have probably still piloted 03 regardless of wether 02 had been in storage. So wether or not the vatican treaty was a plot pusher makes no difference does it really. Asuka would have still been out for the count and Mari would have still gone bat shit insane inside of unit 2.

[I Accidentally Dracula]

What makes me laugh about this whole situation is that Asuka would have probably still piloted 03 regardless of wether 02 had been in storage.

huh?

[Soul Fire]

huh?

Well you said that the vatican treaty was a plot device to simply get Asuka into unit 3?. I apologise if I have misunderstood you in advance. I was thinking that Asuka'a reasons for piloting were only half to do with not being able to pilot unit 2 anymore. She would have wanted to do the test anyway I think based on the situation leading up to the bardiel incident not including the vatican treaty. It in her nature to want to impress after all. Basically lets not just assume that the vatican treaty was only a plot device to spur Asuka's piloting of 3. It may possibly have other implications later.

Umm also

Am I right in thinking that if NERV in Japan were say accused of breaking that treaty at any point in the future, that would be ample enough leverage that SEELE needs to attack NERV alla EoE?

[I Accidentally Dracula]

Well you said that the vatican treaty was a plot device to simply get Asuka into unit 3?

Yeah, I said that. Because I think it's absolutely true.

I was "huh"ing at you casually posting a complete contradiction to this criticism while not actually citing anything or elaborating on how you reached that conclusion. You just ... dropped it on the table.

She would have wanted to do the test anyway I think based on the situation leading up to the bardiel incident not including the vatican treaty. It in her nature to want to impress after all.

... no, it's not?

It's in her nature to make herself feel valuable to other people, and she loses this ability specifically from EVA-02 being shut down. If it was in her character to simply overbear on everybody, she would have been begging to hop in EVA-00 and EVA-01 to prove her mastery of being a pilot long before EVA-03 was a blip on the storytelling radar.

Thinking about this has made me realize that it would be completely out-of-character for Asuka to just suddenly ditch her personal, prized EVA-02 for someone else's puppy anyway, so the idea is flawed even in the original series.

Basically lets not just assume that the vatican treaty was only a plot device to spur Asuka's piloting of 3. It may possibly have other implications later.

A domino effect caused by a writing train wreck... is still a train wreck. You can't say "oh the ends will justify the means" when it's the writer's job to be intelligent enough and in enough control of the story to not have to resort to nonsensical means in the first place.