2.0 Translation Thread

squall.leonhart · Postby **squall.leonhart** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:42 pm

That would be a question for SSD or Ornette.

squall.leonhart · Postby **squall.leonhart** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:46 pm

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Evangelion_2.0_%28Translation%29

The subs are here.

And SSD finished the lines I was unsure of.

LiLi · Postby **LiLi** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:52 pm

:EDIT: Ack, you replied while I edited.

squall: If you meant you wanted me to look at the Picnic scene + all those lines you asked about, that's likely going to take at least a couple of days, since I'm supposed to work on that pesky thesis (for a moment I thought you meant the picnic thing). Please clarify input.

Also: are we going to have a chance to check the subs (=more time) before OK'ing a distribution of the file?

Postby **Sailor Star Dust** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:54 pm

Probably, but you should ask Ornette that, I'm not sure.

Lili: The picnic scene and other lines are fine since it was double-checked already, so that's fine, you don't need to look at those unless you want to.

The only stuff that needs translating then double-checking--which isn't completely necessary anyway--is the random techno-babble stuff I pointed out. Everything else is good to go in terms of subs. :asuka_happy:

LiLi · Postby **LiLi** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:55 pm

^Well... I just noticed some stuff I(?) did was changed in the wiki with a version that looks, well, wrong...?

There are other bits I don't agree with, too.

Also, since I'd been asked to do some stuff, keeping me posted about the progress if my input wasn't needed could have been nice and maybe saved me time/work/stress... :(

I thought each of us would have had a chance to look at the final product before OK'ing, but if you're all in a rush to release the subs... go ahead, I guess?

squall.leonhart · Postby **squall.leonhart** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:13 pm

I don't remember any lines of yours that we changed. All the lines were edited though for coherency while still maintaining the same translation. Think of it like taking a Thesaurus out and using synonyms.

LiLi · Postby **LiLi** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:18 pm

squall.leonhart wrote:I don't remember any lines of yours that we changed. All the lines were edited though for coherency while still maintaining the same translation. Think of it like taking a Thesaurus out and using synonyms.

What about this, for example?

00:21:51,070 --> 00:21:55,500 Rei Yeah. Today I'm better than normal.

Versus my translation:

レイ「ええ。ノルマ終わったから今日は良いの。」
Rei: Yes. My work is done so, today it's OK.

The meaning is completely different.

Really got to go now...

:EDIT: BTW, according to my dictionary, ノルマ = one's assigned work

Vinyl collection at Discogs · Postby **Ornette** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:45 pm

Anytime everyone OKs what's in the wiki page, I'll just run a script and then have an SRT file. If squall.leonhart wants to make stylized subs, I can generate an .ass file with no styles by default (personally, I think colored subtitles are annoying) that he can add styles if you want (I'll make sure to generate it with the speaker as a "Style:").

Axell · Postby **Axell** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:48 pm

will the subs include song lyrics?

LiLi · Postby **LiLi** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:53 pm

I just noticed this part, from:

00:07:39,205 --> 00:07:40,735 Misato So, Shinji?

to

00:08:01,370 --> 00:08:04,216 Shinji I just feel too upset about it.

May I inquire about its source? It looks rather substantially different from what I understand of the scene...?

Vinyl collection at Discogs · Postby **Ornette** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:58 pm

Axell wrote:will the subs include song lyrics?

If someone wants to add those in to the wiki (timed), then be my guest.

Postby **Sailor Star Dust** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:32 pm

Lili: First off, I was under the impression this whole time that you weren't working on the wiki 2.0 subs page considering you didn't want your translations up there.

I thought whatever you were posting was simply for thread purposes, but at the very least I do remember you saying something along the lines of you feeling your Japanese knowledge was too weak to help out; it didn't have to do with the "legal" reasons Tab felt, IIRC. :um:

Just to clarify, myself and Squall were taking it upon ourselves to translate the grayed out areas that weren't translated on the 2.0 pages yet. ~~Also, I have no idea WHEN the subs are going to be released by Ornette, I just wanted to give a headsup about this in here since Ornette asked me to.~~ EDIT: Never mind, Ornette posted while I typed this up.

squall.leonhart: Thanks for clarifying.

Lili: I just fixed up Rei's line to reflect what she's really saying, so it's okay now. I'm not sure who changed it considering what I had up was accurate compared to Rei being "better than normal" , but it's fixed, so this part at least is a non-issue.

Axell: Not to my knowledge they won't.

EDIT: The Misato talking to Shinji scene looks alright to me, when double checking with the fan transcript and the actual Japanese (as well as the Engrish subs from that Spanish translation!), I didn't notice anything off in terms of what's being said.

Protip: If you go to "history" on the wiki page tab (sorry, I'm too pressed for time to check who did what considering there was SO much work on it), you should be able to see who was more or less working on what. My guess it was either Reichu, Squall, or RockManBalls that did that scene.

Anyway, the fact that we have several translators working on the 2.0 whether it's in here or the actual Evawiki subs, I'd say things will be alright. Of course, I agree completely with you that everything does need to have one last (or several checks) before it's "shipped out" as it were.

Request: If any of the translators do find something that seems currently wrong on the 2.0 subs page, could they PLEASE mention the line and timestamp in this thread?

To make things clear, I'm referring to translations on the wiki that seem to have completely different meanings then what translators or pointing out (In other words, what Lili is taking the initiative to do). I think this would be a good idea so we can make sure we're "all on the same page" before we'd be in agreement and the translation would be made into subtitles. ^_^

LiLi · Postby **LiLi** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:07 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Lili: First off, I was under the impression this whole time that you weren't working on the wiki 2.0 subs page considering you didn't want your translations up there.

I thought whatever you were posting was simply for thread purposes, but at the very least I do remember you saying something along the lines of you feeling your Japanese knowledge was too weak to help out; it didn't have to do with the "legal" reasons Tab felt, IIRC.

First off, I was referring to a scene I've been asked to translate by squall - you can find his post from a couple of days ago in this thread.

Secondly - what are you talking about? Before making such affirmations which completely misrepresent my actions, would you mind going back and looking at my posts concerning my worries about copyright infringements, accuracy vs Engrish, and the like? Or just ask Reichu.
We've been discussing the issue on this very thread for days. My name is on top of the wiki page along with those of the other translators, in case you missed it somehow:

English->Japanese Translations:

LiLi, Reichu, RockManBalls, Sailor Star Dust, radionerd [squall.leonhart]

As far as I can tell, my translations have been copiously copypasta'd at various points in that wiki, with some editing. (IIRC, squall himself also said he'd used my translations in his work).Why would they be there had I not given my consent? It took a while for me and Reichu to work out how to do that in order for my concerns to be addressed - since apparently she wanted my 'weak Japanese translations' to be included => hence the Private Use Only warning and grey bits instead of Engrish.

I think you can trace them easily enough by referring to the compilative post I've done for ease of reference with links to all my translations.

Like I said before, I am not editing the wiki personally simply because I am supposed to be working on my MSc thesis and translating is time consuming enough as it is.

You know what, guys? If you prefer, you might as well take down the bits I've done and handle the subs however you wish. Or whatever. We're really not on the same page here anymore, concerning the way things are being handled, so I think I'd better retire from this project now - it's been too much stress already, and I should really prioritize my RL work over this.

I wish you all good luck with the subs project, I guess it's time for me to take my leave.

Postby **Sailor Star Dust** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:45 pm

Lili wrote:Whose translations do you think have been copiously copypasta'd at various points in that wiki, with some editing? Why would they be there had I not given my consent?

With the translations: Reichu was working on her own version of translations (although I've noticed both you and Reichu as well as you and Squall have been "comparing notes" on a few things), same with myself. It's just like when you'd do your own version of translations. If you and Squall have been collaborating on subtitles together, I don't know anything about that so I can't say.

Whose translations do you think have been copiously copypasta'd at various points in that wiki, with some editing? Why would they be there had I not given my consent? It took a while for me and Reichu to work out how to do that in order for my concerns to be addressed - since apparently she wanted my weak Japanese translations to be included - that's all.

Despite some "comparing notes" between you and Reichu (as well as any input on the forums by you and RockManBalls), from what I've seen with the actual wiki pages, it's only been myself, Ornette, and Squall that have been doing any translating for those.

If you look at the History, you'll see there were A LOT of the grayed out Engrish subtitles before we would add our own translations of things.

All else I can say is your possessiveness over the wiki is reminding me A LOT of V and Zuggy right now, which isn't a good thing.

Secondly - what are you talking about? Before making such affirmations, would you mind going back and looking at my posts concerning my worries about copyright infringements and the like? Or just ask Reichu. We've been discussing the issue on this very thread for days.

If you re-read what I wrote, I was saying you did NOT have copyright concerns, but that you didn't want to work on the translations because of your lack of Japanese knowledge.

Frankly I'm annoyed by the fact you're complaining about the translations without doing any of the work on the wiki page; if other translations have been bothering you so much, the least you could have done is put in the effort.

It's either been by myself, Reichu, Squall or Ornette slaving over the pages if you look at the actual History instead of looking at who's been credited because of their help in the forums.

LiLi · Postby **LiLi** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:17 pm

Odd, my reply has disappeared.

Anyway, I'm sure Reichu would be able to explain what my involvement in the project/actual concerns were.

Bye.

Southen · Postby **Southen** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:15 pm

I'm not sure whether to thank you all profusely for translating and combining the fansub, or ask you to stop fighting and let LiLi get on with their thesis. :thumbsup:

Also, muxing the subs with a camrip would be begging for legal troubles and a takedown notice, and would link evageeks (otherwise only guilty of fansubbing) with any camrips that wisely haven't been allowed to be linked to from here. I'd caution against allowing/encouraging it to occur except for private use.

squall.leonhart · Postby **squall.leonhart** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:22 pm

WTF?? I leave for a few hours and come back to this??

The Invincible Shinji · Postby **The Invincible Shinji** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:42 pm

It appears there was a bit of a disagreement. It's a shame and this project is almost done from what i gather.

squall.leonhart · Postby **squall.leonhart** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:01 am

I'll post the following because I believe it should be viewed by all.

PM removed. Please don't post PMs publicly without permission from the sender.

As you wanted, I scanned through your page and my ASS script/Wiki script. I only found 2 cases (excluding song translations) where your translations matched word-for-word what we used. Most of your lines have either been replaced by ones SSD and I made or have been so heavily edited that they are no longer yours. You must understand that some lines, no matter who translates them, will come out the same. I will not be responsible for removing the remaining lines because of reasons I will mention further down.

That said, I believe I speak for everyone else here who worked on this that we accepted your prior commitments and understand where your priorities lie. Everyone of us have to work and/or go to school as well as maintain our social lives.

We are not trying to throw away the work you volunteered for this project. Rather, I believe that SSD did not want to put so much pressure on you to do a final check and finish the last few lines. Many people have been waiting for one of us to finalize the translations.

I was not present during your whole dispute between you, Reichu, and Tab about "copyright" issues. But I do want to voice my opinion on the matter. Everyone of us has NO RIGHT to any of the work we have done on this project. The overall source of our translations is a 2009 film copyrighted by GAINAX/Khara. The fan-transcript used for 90% of our translations was, for lack of a better term, stolen from Khara and placed in a publicly accessible area of the internet. We simply took what was already available, gave our best shot at providing a translation for it, and in turn placed it in yet another publicly accessible area. Laying a copyright on our work would be like charging someone for Warez simply because we bypassed the security checks.

Now that our work is available, albeit in a fragmented form, publicly, there is nothing stopping someone from our script along with a copy of the Camrip and claiming it as their own. If not us, then who. It would be more productive to all of us if "we" did it and not someone else. It was inevitable. I believe I mentioned this beforehand.

I have no control over what happens next. SSD has apparently allocated Ornette to compile/mux/whatever and I have no idea how he will do it.

If you truly feel like leaving, that is your choice. No one is stopping you. I, at least, harbor now ill will towards you for leaving. We thank you for your time and effort and wish you good luck on your thesis. It is my sincerest desire for you to return in time for 3.0 & Final.

Until then, yours truly,
Reito a.k.a. radionerd a.k.a. squall.leonhart

I would like to thank everyone who put forth their effort and time into this. I'll even thank Tab for his work, even though he left before I came on board, on getting this whole project started. Even trueno_twentyone for keeping us up late with those cups of coffee. ...Or was that sake? F**k, I don't remember.

P.S.: Ornette, here is a screenshot of what my styled script looks like. I used the same styling as my Evangelion 1.11 subs. Let me know if you want it.

Vinyl collection at Discogs · Postby **Ornette** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:14 am

@squall.leonhart

Oh, if you have a quick way of taking what's in the wiki and making an .ass file (or you've been editing your sub file when the wiki gets updated), then that's fine. It was just that I told SSD that I had a script that automatically takes what's in the 4 wiki pages and outputs a vanilla .ass file. You're more than welcome to do the subs file, I was just offering because I wasn't sure if you (or anyone else) were doing it by hand.

The screenshot looks fine, the songs aren't entered in the wiki so my script obviously wouldn't have them in the outputed .ass file. If you didn't have a way to automate it or don't already have everything that's there, then I can just generate the vanilla .ass file and give it to you so you can just add the header and search/replace the style names, and add the layers for the songs. Eitherway, I figured someone else would take what I had and make it look nicer.

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