A remake or a sequel?

[Archangel]

BM-03 could also mean the third subject to have sunk below safe plug depths and returned as "human".

"Bio-Mass -03"?

BM-01 might have been Asuka and BM-02 could have been Mari.

[ChaddyManPrime]

^
That's another idea I had but as I said I chose the ones I liked most, that and I couldn't find good enough pictures I kinda gave up. I couldn't find a picture of Shinji in the capsule/coffin thing which was the one I wanted to use for BM 03.

I have so many ideas and combinations but it would require so many damn pictures.

[robersora]

Just one question to be sure... There is no information what BM stands for, right? Not even in the Groundworks? I would tremendously appreciate, if someone who's in possession of the Q Groundworks could confirm that.

[Ray]

Best guess is "Biological Mass"

[ElMariachi]

Someone emitted the hypothesis that it was a shotout to Gunbuster's "Buster Machine III", alias the black hole bomb.
After all, both are very destructive and Shinji's Impact Trigger power could classify him as a WMD!

I couldn't find a picture of Shinji in the capsule/coffin thing which was the one I wanted to use for BM 03.

You mean this image?

SPOILER: Show

It's in EGF wiki gallery.

[ChaddyManPrime]

^
Yeah that's the one Good Sir, I couldn't find it anywhere, no matter what combination of words I used in the Google search bar. That's the earliest we see of a reformed Shinji.

[pwhodges]

Just one question to be sure... There is no information what BM stands for, right? Not even in the Groundworks? I would tremendously appreciate, if someone who's in possession of the Q Groundworks could confirm that.

Q Groundwork doesn't even show the writing on the foot, let alone say anything about it.

[ElMariachi]

It's clear that the only source that will give us answers is the 3.0 CRC, if it comes out one day.

[ChaddyManPrime]

They'll probably release it after 4.0, from what I heard 3.0 and 4.0 were supposed to be one movie so it may have spoilers in it.

[Dataprime]

what I heard 3.0 and 4.0 were supposed to be one movie

That would have been nice if was that way
but nooooooooo

[robersora]

Someone emitted the hypothesis that it was a shotout to Gunbuster's "Buster Machine III", alias the black hole bomb.
After, both are very destructive and Shinji's Impact Trigger power could classify him as a WMD!

I would be perfectly content with that explanation!

Q Groundwork doesn't even show the writing on the foot, let alone say anything about it.

I thought so. But thank you for checking.

[ChaddyManPrime]

What I wonder is if it is a sequel is when and how Shinji will get his memories back. I mean I can conjure up images of the BM reuniting or Instrumentality showing him what happened ( Unless he is in Instrumentality still). I want something dramatic to happen.

I'm just going to start throwing ideas out there

What we are witnessing is Asuka's Instrumentality, this is what lead up to her caressing his face.

The three endings, EOTV and EoE + this new one all happened. Shinji is coming to terms with the three things he needs in order to get out of Instrumentality, they are; Acceptance, Love, and Forgiveness.

There is are no alternate realities, only false dreams. 1.0 and 2.0 were false dreams.

The reunification process of Asuka and Mari is between that of one's self or between that of a Mother and Child.

The reunification process will take place in Unit 8+2

The BM's if they are indeed Shinji and not clones of Shinji will reunite.

Shinji is Kaworu from the future, the only one that can love Shinji is himself.

Kaworu is a clone of Shinji and Adam.

Kaworu is a clone of Gendo and Adam.

Mari's real last name is Soryu, Illustrious is just a title.

Shikinami and Makinami somehow equal Soryu

The final fight will between Shinji's parents and everybody else.

A after credits scene will return to Asuka and Shinji by the red sea, they will say or do something that will confirm they love each other, it may be silent.

Quantum Rei and Kaworu will come and save Shinji's ass.

Gendo will meld with Lilith this time around.

It will show the Children grown up.

Anno will instead of saying Congratulations to all the Children will this time say something akin to welcome to adulthood.

Kaji will come out the Red Sea to be with Misato, so will PenPen.

Mari is the daughter of Shinji and Asuka but only after Shinji becomes Kaworu.

Where's the Fourth Children? Mari and Kaworu are 5th and 6th but the 4th is absent... because Shinji's subconscious is protecting him from harm.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I wonder if everyone somewhat aggressively against any kind of sequel would be able to stomach the truth if it turns out to be the case when the final rebuild film is released.

I’ve always stated that if NTE is indeed a sequel to NGE, then I’d rather have Anno tell me in his own compelling way. I certainly don’t want to stretch logic in order to force imagery that may or may nor have anything to do with this as being evidence of NTE being a sequel. Even if NTE is a sequel, much of the “evidences” people are claiming to have seem to be used for entirely different purposes in the narrative itself.
(Red oceans making it impossible for ocean life to exist post Second Impact, and not a carry over from 3I in EoE. In fact, if you think about it, if the red dead oceans were indeed a carry-over from EoE, then it would inhibit life from evolving all together, making it impossible for there to be any human characters to speak of in NTE. If NTE is a sequel, then it will be presented in a different way than just red oceans and stuff.)

[Sicarius VI]

The one problem I have with NTE being a sequel is the fact that it would render EOE message and themes meaningless.

This is because EOE and NGE was never intended to have a sequel let alone to past the point of the characters actually getting better.

That is the only problem I have with the sequel theory. For pros it really does do some good things, for example NTE can be forgiven a tad for jump-start in character development.

This does seem to hint at various reason why the sequel theory applies now, if it is canon.

Also the reflection with the old schoolboy Shinji and the Eva-13 plug suit Shinji is I think part of showing his Character development and also a call back to the very opening of EOE and NGE with the water splash, and the flock of birds before Rei appears.

Maybe Shinji was thinking of suicide before he saw Quantum Rei, also there is no indication ReiQ or Asuka is with him, backing up what I said about them splitting up.

Also anyone have an idea on what Shinji is staring at and then proceeds to walk towards? Is it Rei? Because he seems to be staring in the opposite direction.

[Sorrow]

FreakyFilmFan4ever: but it's not impossible[s]---[/s]or even hard[s]---[/s]to present this imagery that implies sequel, but also give it a meaning that works on its own to possibly subvert any intentions being inexplicable any other way, and therefore dead give aways. Or so people who haven't seen the original can still understand the work on its own.

You said you'd rather have Anno tell you in his own compelling way, but perhaps he has been. This is what I mean; so if the sequel is true and people's stretches of logic (guesses at Anno's intention is all it really is) were spot on, would people admit their aggressive stance was unfounded, or would they be utterly disappointed in Anno for not surprising them and coming up with something no one could have possibly thought of? Claim Anno is as dumb as they think the people who think a sequel may be at play are?

If people don't think we can guess at Anno's game, then why do they bother talking about it or even telling others "no, because"? Just wait until the film is out to talk about it, in that case. And If they just think the sequel theory is wrong, but have "more likely" opinions, then I ask if their aggressive dismissal would be swept under the carpet were it to be true?

It seems to me that people who hold up sequel theory have the attitude of "but there are possible clues, it could happen. I wouldn't dismiss it if I were you", and people who think otherwise have the attitude "that's just illogical. Do you remember a thing called common sense? I see no evidence at all". One group is going to look a lot sillier than the other if the opposite opinion turns out to be true.

This is because EOE and NGE was never intended to have a sequel let alone to past the point of the characters actually getting better.

Unless Anno decided otherwise.

Just because people guessed it, doesn't mean Anno himself didn't think it was a good idea. He announced the rebuilds as simply remakes, therefore viewable for people who haven't already seen Evangelion, though with a "new ending" which a lot of people took to mean more fleshed out or more accessible than EoE, and Anno decided it would be a good idea to subvert people's expectations. Linking these "remakes" to the original work would have been an easy way of doing so; that may have at least at one point been his intention, and we have known since the end of 2.0 he wasn't staying true to the idea of "remakes + new ending". This is still very much a piece of work for those who have seen and probably enjoyed the original than it is for new people, or people who didn't get/like the original, to enjoy.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

As I’ve stated before, every possible “clue” to a sequel theory is completely usurped by the narrative for completely different uses. Anno’s work usually does more than just leave tiny visual indicators of things. Yes, there are visual indicators to his overall narrative goals, but there’s more to it than that. His over-all tone of his work plants ideas in the viewers’ heads long before there are tiny visual indicators. Shinji stands on a street corner, unrecognizable ceilings make him feel uncomfortable, and he constantly reminds himself of his mother long before Ep 16 reveals abandonment issues as well as who’s inside Unit 01.

With NTE you just have an outline of a giant humanoid figure on a hillside, red oceans, and stories of a mysterious Second Impact. Instead of extrapolating that the humanoid outline could have been one of the 4 Adams we see in the flashback in Ha, everyone assumes Sequel Theory and that it’s from one of the battles in NGE because NGE was cool and stuff. Then 14 years go by and for some reason the passage of time is greater evidence of a Sequel Theory.

No. No it’s not. Kaworu telling Shinji that he can jump between dimensions every time he dies in one of them would be evidence of a Sequel Theory of sorts. Seele telling Gendo that they rebirthed the world eons ago after an Impact went wrong would be evidence for a Sequel Theory. Major Misato Katsuragi crawling out of the red ocean and punching Captain Katsuragi of Wille in the face would be evidence of a Sequel Theory. Heck, all of the characters referencing deja vu at some point would even be considered thematic evidence for a sequel theory, but you can’t even get that from this series! (The best you could accomplish is trying up Akira Ishida and torturing the information out of him, as Anno is apparently willing to go to his grave with a lot of personal views of Eva.)

Now this isn’t to say that Eva Shin won’t come down and break everyone’s minds open with all sorts of actual evidences of a sequel universe. But we gotta let Eva Shin do that it it’s own way, rather than trying to talk over the points these previous movies have been trying to make all along with our own brand of theories/fanfiction/whatever.

[Sorrow]

Also @Sorrow, Very well if Anno wants to change the meaning of NGE with the confirmation that the sequel theory is true, then so be it, we can always still remember what the message was before. I will admit I should've been less concrete with my reasoning and saying "it never intended".

Sequel or not, I still think Anno's intent for rebuild is to be a separate story with a separate message using the Evangelion universe and its characters as the foundation. All that rebuild being a sequel would do would mean that its message incorporates the events of EoE* into it. EoE would still work and have a point on its own, while rebuild would be dependant on EoE to tell its own.

*When I say EoE here, I also mean the series, not just the film.

[pwhodges]

Somebody rename this thread A River in Egypt.

You won't convince me like that; the evidence is all in people's heads.

[airman4]

who whoooo wait
what is it ?
I was joking about official material of FINAL in shorts of animator expo
it's really that ? (sorry my connection is low shit )

[Chuckman]

The one problem I have with NTE being a sequel is the fact that it would render EOE message and themes meaningless.

EoE is still EoE. A time loop doesn't change any of its lessons.

What's actually going on here is a complexity beyond a time loop.

As I’ve stated before, every possible “clue” to a sequel theory is completely usurped by the narrative for completely different uses.

Why can't it be both?

A narrative is not a historical account. It's not a puzzle to be solved with one possible answer and the others to be disproved somehow.

Anno isn't going to hand you the answers on a platter and "Anno didn't hand us timeywimey bullshit on a platter" isn't evidence against timeywimey bullshit going on when there clearly is. The Rebuild universe is broken, straining at the seams. NGE is leaking in through the cracks and we'll probably see hints of other realities- if we haven't seen them already.

Opponents of the so-called sequel theory -a term I dispute for the following reason- have built a an implicit strawman ("the sequel theory states that Rebuild takes place in some form directly after EoE") to knock down and casually dismiss all the evidence that something fucked up and weird is going on in NTE and the characters aren't even aware of it. Every time one of them is about to notice something distracts them. See: Track 27.

Anno is never going to explain anything to you. Anno isn't going to hijack Kaworu and spew some crap from a videogame to explain everything.

@pwhodges I don't even care about "proving" the "sequel theory" "correct". I will be triumphant if I can get one person to acknowledge that in the absence of explicit confirmation of something within the text of the film itself and not in paratext or metatext or an interview, the work is open to interpretation and both sides are equally valid.

So much effort wasted trying to quantify. Vistas of the imagination wait in every frame. Enough bean counting and lawyering, says Chuckman.