A remake or a sequel?

[UrsusArctos]

Stop omnislashing!

E2c. Omnislashing: "Omnislashing" involves replying in the form of long, verbose, multi-segmented posts filled with multiple quotations and line-by-line, point-by-point replies. Even if omnislashing is civil and on-topic, it is a major eyesore and makes casual readers struggle to follow the conversation. Please keep your replies short and to the point, quote in paragraphs or sections rather than individual lines or points, and try not to exceed three quotes per post to keep things readable. Excessive omnislashing will invite moderator action.

[pwhodges]

I still find the sensitivity of this forum towards trying to deal with all aspects of an argument when that seems justified to be quite puzzling. In the present conversation it is creating no difficulty in following what is going on at all; and the aesthetic objection is arguable. A better cause for objection would be the simple repetition of the same arguments over and over again.

[ElMariachi]

Time traveling or universe hopping Kaworu is too bland. There is only one Kaworu who exists as a superposition of all possible Kaworus. We can only see one tiny slice of him at a time.

Well, a pan-dimensional Quantum!Kaworu is interesting too!

[qu4d]

Continuing to use Lost, a show noted for its utter lack of planning or direction, as a point of reference isn't very compelling. Most anime isn't that disorganized, and this is particularly true of Eva. Anno has changed his mind about the show's direction in the past, but he doesn't make shit up out of whole cloth to anywhere near the extent the creators of Lost did, and he doesn't have a track record of lying to his crew or the public as the creators of Lost do. Assuming he did (or even that that's a likely possibility) without some indication that that's the case is both unfair and misleading.

LOST had more stuff planned than most other shows ever had. Sure, some things didn't work out that well and some things had to be changed due to TPTB... but claiming that they made up shit as they went along is pure nonsense and if people would pay attention, they would notice.

Breaking Bad was quite the opposite. Vince Gilligan happily admitted that they had no idea, what the M60 from episode 5x01 was going to be used for. The character of uncle Jack didn't even exist by this point. So fucking what? Nobody cares.

That's hypocrisy and nothing else.

[Bagheera]

I still find the sensitivity of this forum towards trying to deal with all aspects of an argument when that seems justified to be quite puzzling. In the present conversation it is creating no difficulty in following what is going on at all; and the aesthetic objection is arguable. A better cause for objection would be the simple repetition of the same arguments over and over again.

I tend to agree on both counts. I think I'll bow out of this mess unless/until something new shows up.

[NemZ]

The problem with omnislashing is multifaceted. Replying in this form tends to point people towards nitpicky tangent arguments about minutia rather than sticking to the topic. Writing so many sections seems to invite a more dismissive tone or pointless wastes like "see above" stated repeatedly. Composing your thoughts in this manner also tends toward setting up multiple separate arguments with different posters, which often leads to arguments about people rather than about their ideas. Such in-depth arguments also more frequently become entrenched, heated affairs producing far more drama than insight. Finally, it just makes posts rather ugly to sort through if you haven't been following it from the beginning which dissuades others from joining in.

Omnislashing has a history on this forum of being a problem and leading to larger problems, so we try to nip it in the bud. I've been guilty of it myself in the past, though I try to make an effort to curtail it when a discussion is leading that way. I find it helpful to shift gears by summing up my understanding of the disagreement and addressing only the largest areas of interest in turn rather than continuing to hammer away in all directions simultaneously.

[s:18d5pwuf]For now I think it's time for this thread to take a break for a few days and for everyone involved to cool off.[/s:18d5pwuf]
Now, let's try that again.

[Ringworm128]

I've decided to go with the sequel theory. It just makes too much sense. From the characters acting different to the blood stain on the moon there's just too many things that scream "NGE/EOE happened in this universe." Even the things that have in universe explanations still seem to be visual hints.

Hmmm... the first is the GeoFront, the second is outside Tokyo-3. And the footprint is probably <this guy.

Still it could be a visual reference. It might not be the same footprint but it could still be a way of saying the EOE fight once happened.

[Bagheera]

I've decided to go with the sequel theory. It just makes too much sense.

No, it doesn't. The visual callbacks are there for thematic resonance and as Easter eggs for viewers who saw the original show, and are demonstrably not evidence of a sequel. The only unexplained element to date is Kaworu's cryptic lines, and they point toward an ENT-specific loop more than anything else (though even that approach has some serious problems).

This has all been addressed many, many times in this very thread. At this point the theory is dead, and we're left with puzzling out which parts of the story repeat, and how, and why, and what that means. We're also stuck with a few diehards who stick their fingers in their ears and scream "la la la I can't hear you sequel is totally true!" Such is life.

[ElMariachi]

Still it could be a visual reference. It might not be the same footprint but it could still be a way of saying the EOE fight once happened.

It's definitively not the same footprint : the EoE fight happened in the Geofront, the footprint in 1.0 was on the surface.
That footprint was simply left by EVA-01 when it charged Shamshel.

[Ringworm128]

No, it doesn't. The visual callbacks are there for thematic resonance and as Easter eggs for viewers who saw the original show, and are demonstrably not evidence of a sequel. The only unexplained element to date is Kaworu's cryptic lines, and they point toward an ENT-specific loop more than anything else (though even that approach has some serious problems).

Still there seems to be a little too many call backs. If it were one or two things, yeah you could brush them off as easter eggs. But they're fairly frequent . Merge this with Kaworu's line and the characters acting differently and all things point to it being a continuation. Also as far as I know nothings actually been said on the whole sequel thing so saying those things are just easter eggs is just as much speculation.

It's definitively not the same footprint : the EoE fight happened in the Geofront, the foot print in 1.0 was on the surface.

As I said, it's not the same print but it could still be a visual call back implying the Asuka fight once happened. Think of it as reverse forshadowing.

[pwhodges]

Now try to view it from the perspective of someone who has not seen the original series. What, other than Kaworu's cryptic remarks, would make it even occur to you as a possibility that this is a sequel?

[Ringworm128]

The (possible) hints that it's a sequel probably do count on one already seeing NGE. Which would make sense if it were a sequel given that you usually watch the first entry in something before you watch it's sequel.

[ElMariachi]

Personally I prefer the Occam's Razor method : all the hints got an explanation, except Kaworu's lines which could also hints at a NTE-contained time loop.

[pwhodges]

Which would make sense if it were a sequel given that you usually watch the first entry in something before you watch it's sequel.

But what we've been told elsewhere, in hints, about the vision for Rebuild suggests that such is not the intention - this was to be a somewhat more accessible story for those who don't know the series.

[Chuckman]

I think they through that out the window after the first one. We saw the original series and we still don't know what the hell is going on.

[Ringworm128]

It can still be a self contained series for newcomers while still being a continuation of NGE.

[pwhodges]

I think they threw that out the window after the first one.

Hence my "was" to be. None the less, if there was a change in attitude after the first film, it still doesn't seem convincing to retcon the first into being part of a sequel.

[Bagheera]

Still there seems to be a little too many call backs. If it were one or two things, yeah you could brush them off as easter eggs. But they're fairly frequent . Merge this with Kaworu's line and the characters acting differently and all things point to it being a continuation.

No, they don't. The characters are "acting differently" because it's a different continuity; if you view the movies as their own thing they aren't "acting differently" at all. And, as noted, the Easter eggs have all been explained, in detail, using official sources. There is simply nothing to work with here apart from Kaworu's line, and that has many plausible meanings that do not in any way necessitate ENT's being a sequel (or even a loop).

Also as far as I know nothings actually been said on the whole sequel thing so saying those things are just easter eggs is just as much speculation. As I said, it's not the same print but it could still be a visual call back implying the Asuka fight once happened. Think of it as reverse forshadowing.

If it's not the same footprint, if the blood stain doesn't match up, if all the actual evidence does not match what we see in NGE, it is not evidence in support of ENT being a sequel. Visual callbacks alone are not evidence. They have to match what's seen in the other show to qualify, and they don't. No evidence, dead theory.

It can still be a self contained series for newcomers while still being a continuation of NGE.

But there's no reason to do that, particularly when Anno and others have said outright that it's not a sequel.

All available evidence indicates the ENT can not be a sequel without resorting to painfully contorted storytelling and turning the crew of Khara into a pack of liars. We have no reason to suspect either of these things is a possibility, so give it up already.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I personally think that NTE is a prequel to Space Battleship Yamato, chronicalizing the events that occurred prior to launching that thing out into space.

I mean, the references within the NTE series are all plain and obvious to see, right? Who’s to say it’s not in light of this strong evidence?

Or is it simply because Anno likes putting certain things in certain films her makes....

[airman4]

NTE is the sequel to the

SPOILER: Show

BIBLE...