Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Ray » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:44 pm

Alright I'm posting this here primarily to get it off my chest, sorry if it's inflammatory but this needs to be said. I was going to post this on the "Asuka Shinji's Help" thread but I haven't really seen a topic here yet talking about this in detail.

I'm making the argument that it's just asking too much of the audience to honestly believe that Asuka and Misato can honestly forgive Shinji after 14 years of baggage and bitterness. What really bugs me about 3.33 and the people who defend it is that they fail to realize or even acknowledge that 14 Years have passed for Asuka and Misato. 14 years. They knew Shinji for a few months as a friend/surrogate mother, and 14 years as the one who hurt them in such a personal and invasive way.

Set aside for a fact the argument that Shinji is responsible for causing the end of the world. He hurt Misato and Asuka in very deep, personal ways. They've suffered because of his actions, I can relate, I can imagine the resentment they must feel towards him, especially as a person who has been in a good relationship that went bad.

Time warps memories, makes the bad ones worse in hindsight, and if the last memories you had of someone you trusted was of them hurting you, it would make you wonder the good ones you had of them were real at all.

Here's a thought experiment. Imagine A person you care about deeply, a son, a girlfriend, a significant other, etc. someone you trust and love despite their flaws.

Now imagine(in the case of Asuka) that they left you to die in an accident, an accident that left you in a crippled and stunted body and/or (in the case of Misato) made you relive your childhood trauma, after burning the emotional bridge they had with you and then left you to live in a horrid mess he left behind/played a part in creating. You were forced to live in a world that exists because of his actions, deal with the betrayal, the pain, the bad memories for 14 years. Eventually you mangage to move on with your life.

Then out of nowhere, the person who hurt you in such a deep and intimate way came back into your life. Would you want to restart the relationship you had with them? Or would more likely, you resent, or even outright hate them for what they did to you? More than likely, bitter and angry at them, you would tell them exactly what you think of them, and then, after you tell them what you think of them, they make you relive the trauma AGAIN.

How would you feel? How would you act towards the former loved one once you saw him again? Would you want to forgive him? Would you want revenge? Would you want him to face justice for what he's done? Would you still have any positive feelings towards him?

Congrats, you now know (to a certain extent) how Asuka and Misato feel about Shinji after the events of 2.22 and 3.33.

Okay. Shinji didn't INTEND to hurt Asuka and Misato the way he did. But like I said, 14 years have passed, 14 years of bitterness, of resentment of dealing with trauma he inflicted on them accidentally or not, years of dealing with the consequences of his actions, and on top of all that causing ANOTHER Impact days after he came back? Nuance is probably going to be the farthest thing from Asuka and Misato's mind when they see him again. More in the case of Asuka than Misato likely, but still. Are they more likely to see him as the kind but troubled boy they knew back then? Or the one responsible for their current misery now? are they more likely to respond with kindness, or to assign blame?

Again remember. They only knew him for a few months at most as a human being, and 14 Years as the one who hurt them in a deep and personal way. and in the case of Misato, he burned the bridge he had. He left her right after he threatened to tear apart Nerv headquarters in a nihilistic rage, and stormed out of her apartment even after she tried to get him to stay and after 14 years of fighting on the losing side of a war, of steeling herself from emotions.

True Misato didn't pull the DSS choker trigger. But is the audience really meant to believe it's because she can honestly bring herself to care for him after 14 years of bitterness and pain? True, Asuka went to pull him out of his plug after N4I, but is it more believable that she did that because she still cares for him or because she wants him to face justice for what he did to her and the world?

It's kind've a strain on the suspension of disbelief. I can believe that Misato and Asuka would treat Shinji the way the did after the events of 2.22, and a 14 year time skip. But if Anno is going to try for anything but a sad ending, is it really believable that they'd treat him like a human being again in the next movie? Much less as a friend and comrade? Especially considering they could lose this war with Gendo and Neo-Nerv because of what he did in 3.33?

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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Sicarius VI » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:10 pm

He hurt Misato and Asuka in very deep, personal ways.


I understand Asuka, but how did he hurt Misato? Like she was cheering him on at the end of 2.0, unless you mean how he attempts to leave her apartment before hand... but I don't understand what you mean here.

There are for sure ways Rebuild 3.0+1.0 can go down without the relationship being somewhat repaired between the 3, or rather Shinji Willie. But quite frankly who knows what will happen at this point.
Last edited by Sicarius VI on Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:34 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:Again remember. They only knew him for a few months at most as a human being, and 14 Years as the one who hurt them in a deep and personal way.


This right here is the core of your problem, and it's why this whole premise falls apart. He didn't hurt them in a deep and personal way. He couldn't. They barely knew him. You act as though he was a beloved family member who betrayed them, but he wasn't; he knew Misato for a few months, and Asuka for mere weeks, and as far as both of them knew he was completely and utterly duped by Gendo into participating in 3I. He had no idea what was going on, and they know this, and they have no personal stake in hating him because he never betrayed them. He's just a frustrating, idiotic kid who inadvertently became an Impact Trigger and, in Q, was foolish enough to think he could fix things. People forgive far, far greater sins every day.

I mean, think about it. People forgive murderers. They forgive rapists. They forgive people who have chosen to do horrible, unspeakable things, and they forgive people who have actively and willfully betrayed them. This is something that happens for real, in the real world, all the time. People are capable of staggering acts of grace when they put their minds to it. And you seriously think people who were not betrayed, who had their lives wrecked due to the machinations of someone else, are going to find Shinji's actions unforgivable? It just doesn't make sense. People aren't like that, or at least many people aren't. If Misato couldn't bring herself to kill him when every logical thought in her mind was telling her to do it do you really think she couldn't find a way to forgive him for his sins? If Asuka couldn't find it within her to leave the kid to rot do you really think she couldn't muster a bit of empathy for him? How does that even work? It isn't consistent with the narrative logic of a story or with the story of human experience, and it just plain doesn't follow.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:37 pm

It's a solid argument with validity behind it that comes from a genuine emotional place BUT Shinji's actions were not done with knowing malicious intent.

He didn't force Asuka into piloting Eva Unit 03. She did that of her own volition because SHE wanted to do a nice thing for Rei & Shinji so they could have their get together with Gendo. The tragedy that befell was a bad case of circumstances. Not something brought on by Shinji intentionally. Even Unit 01 destroying the Polluted Eva is removed from being Shinji's fault It all falls back to Gendo & that damn Dummy System. Asuka can be frustrated at Shinji all she wants but at some point in those 14 years she would have accepted that the reason she was put in harms way was because of her own decisions. Of course seeing Shinji brings up those feelings of aggression & she'll have the occasional outburst here & there but in the end the anger is inward driven. She chose to get in the Eva. Not Shinji. AND as a soldier she'd also understand personal responsibility.

Misato's a far more complex case. The argument put forth in the original post removes ALL sense of responsibility from Misato for the suffering Shinji caused. What is the narrative of the first film? Shinji shows up hoping to reconnect with his father & is instead FORCED to pilot a giant robot. Unlike Asuka, who makes the decision to pilot Unit 03 all on her own one night in her bedroom, Shinji is literally strong armed into the situation. Hell, if he doesn't some blue haired girl who can barely stand up has to do it. And Misato ENCOURAGES HIM to pilot it as well. It's her job to keep him piloting the damn thing & she's emotionally conflicted about it but damn it she's a professional. That's one of the drives of the first film.

Shinji: Driving the Eva depresses me. I hate it. But I'll keep doing it so people like me.
Misato: Yeah. It sucks. But you gotta keep piloting Eva. Oh you want to quit? Here, let me show you this reason why if you don't WE ALL DIE.

At the end of the first film Shinji has accepted his role as Eva pilot. He doesn't like it. In fact, he hates it. But, he'll continue to pilot it. And then DISASTER strikes. A disaster that Shinji does have a hand in. But WHO put him there?

Shinji & all the disasters he unintentionally created are all a product of Misato's failure as a surrogate parent. She failed Shinji completely! Instead of protecting him, like a parent should any child, she instead spends the first two films pushing him into harm's way. Then when disaster strikes his life is taken from him. It wasn't like he was off frolicking around for those missing 14 years. He was in some sort of mystical coma. When he finally does return to the world she's finally ready to take on that parental role and keep him from harm's way - "From now on you do nothing." - only that too fails because while they're trying to slowly introduce Shinji to this new world Gendo fucks it all up by sending a Rei to retrieve him, the perfect Shinji Ikari catnip & he foolishly/understandably runs away.

Misato is not Shinji's lover. That's a poor comparison. The argument that he hurt her & then fucked off to fool around only to come back 14 years later holds no sway. Misato is more Shinji's parent & in this case it's more that she abandoned him 14 years ago. She let him walk out the door - Misato cheering Shinji on at the end of 2.0 is a whole new essay all together about this great conflicted character - & he's returned 14 years & she loves him/feels responsible for him but she's uncertain how to go about mending things.

As for Asuka. I'd say it's clear she doesn't view Shinji as a romantic partner - your ships are dead people - BUT she still relates to him as a fellow Eva pilot. As a fellow soldier. There's not many of them in the world.

Nobody knows what will happen in the final film. I will say this, I'm positive everyone in Wille other than Misato, Asuka & Mari will despise Shinji - yes, even best girl Sakura Suzuhara - but in the long run those people don't matter. Asuka will probably find a way to make peace with Shinji - something I'd argue she very well might have done so in the last scene of 3.0 since it would be so much easier to leave him be or just kill him - & then work to make him feel better due to their shared experiences as Eva pilots though they might never be close friends again. Empathy man. Misato will HAVE TO find a way to apologize to Shinji for being the one - aside from Gendo - who had the biggest hand in forcing him down this life path. To put into simple perspective, it's like Shinji accidentally shot & killed a friend with a pistol BUT it was Misato who put the gun in the child's hands. Misato has to show Shinji she loves him - which she does - & that she shares the blame for all the evil that has happened so Shinji is really (Not) Alone. And Mari will just be Mari.

So no. I disagree with any argument that it's all over for Shinji. Everyone in the main cast had a role to play in the horrors that befell the world & to say otherwise on their behalf would be hypocrisy. There's no way this series is going to end with Shinji driving off into the sunset with a babe on his arms & everything he ever wanted laid out before him. But, there's a damn good chance this series could end with Shinji genuinely looking forward to a future life post Eva. Maybe the last shot could be him smiling.

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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Lennik » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:48 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:What really bugs me about 3.33 and the people who defend it is that they fail to realize or even acknowledge that 14 Years have passed for Asuka and Misato. 14 years. They knew Shinji for a few months as a friend/surrogate mother, and 14 years as the one who hurt them in such a personal and invasive way.


This is a mischaracterization. Of course we realize 14 years have passed. That we can all agree on. It's not really something that's disputed.

View Original PostRay wrote:Set aside for a fact the argument that Shinji is responsible for causing the end of the world.


Funny, you'd think the end of the world would have caused the world and the people in it to stop existing, which ... hasn't happened. This is part of the disconnect between two sides of this debate. The world has not ended in 3.33, and since we don't see anything outside of one part of Japan, there's really no evidence yet that the entire world has been "destroyed." Especially since, you know, there are still people on it.

View Original PostRay wrote:Time warps memories, makes the bad ones worse in hindsight, and if the last memories you had of someone you trusted was of them hurting you, it would make you wonder the good ones you had of them were real at all.

Here's a thought experiment. Imagine A person you care about deeply, a son, a girlfriend, a significant other, etc. someone you trust and love despite their flaws.


See, this is a projection. I'm not Asuka or Misato, so I couldn't possibly equate my experiences with theirs. I do know this, however. I have bad memories of friendships ending. You know what still stands out to me years later? The good memories. Those are the ones I think about most. That's the nature of forgiveness, and that's why time heals emotional wounds.

View Original PostRay wrote:Now imagine(in the case of Asuka) that they left you to die in an accident, an accident that left you in a crippled and stunted body and/or (in the case of Misato) made you relive your childhood trauma, after burning the emotional bridge they had with you and then left you to live in a horrid mess he left behind/played a part in creating. You were forced to live in a world that exists because of his actions, deal with the betrayal, the pain, the bad memories for 14 years. Eventually you manage to move on with your life.


Again, you're assuming that this is what matters most to them. I'm sure they're plenty pissed at him for his mistakes, and you know what? They have every right to be. He was reckless, and his reckless actions had consequences. But you're assuming that anger is absolute, that it isn't conflicted, and that it's the only thing they feel for him. You also keep calling it a betrayal, which doesn't fit. He didn't do any of it on purpose, and they know that. Not once do Misato or Asuka ever characterize Shinji as actively malicious or ill-intentioned.

View Original PostRay wrote:Then out of nowhere, the person who hurt you in such a deep and intimate way came back into your life. Would you want to restart the relationship you had with them? Or would more likely, you resent, or even outright hate them for what they did to you? More than likely, bitter and angry at them, you would tell them exactly what you think of them, and then, after you tell them what you think of them, they make you relive the trauma AGAIN.

How would you feel? How would you act towards the former loved one once you saw him again? Would you want to forgive him? Would you want revenge? Would you want him to face justice for what he's done? Would you still have any positive feelings towards him?


This is a personal application of the question, which again, does not fit. We know they still have some positive feelings towards him because we see evidence of it. We see Asuka call out to him for help. We see her save his life. We see Misato spare him and worry about him even when the most tactically advantageous and practical thing for her to do would be to kill him. Yet, she doesn't do it. And the reason is fairly clear.

View Original PostRay wrote:are they more likely to respond with kindness, or to assign blame?


I'd say sparing his life and then pulling him out of the Eva and back on his feet after all the trouble he's caused is pretty kind given the situation. Being kind doesn't mean they can't hold him responsible for his choices, so it's not binary. You can do both.

View Original PostRay wrote:Again remember. They only knew him for a few months at most as a human being, and 14 Years as the one who hurt them in a deep and personal way. and in the case of Misato, he burned the bridge he had. He left her right after he threatened to tear apart Nerv headquarters in a nihilistic rage, and stormed out of her apartment even after she tried to get him to stay and after 14 years of fighting on the losing side of a war, of steeling herself from emotions.


You forget the part where he came back and saved her from being blasted in the face. We see no evidence of her feeling betrayed in the immediate aftermath of his breakdown in 2.22. She seems pretty understanding about the whole thing, even if she doesn't agree with his choice to leave.

View Original PostRay wrote:True Misato didn't pull the DSS choker trigger. But is the audience really meant to believe it's because she can honestly bring herself to care for him after 14 years of bitterness and pain?


...yeah.

View Original PostRay wrote:True, Asuka went to pull him out of his plug after N4I, but is it more believable that she did that because she still cares for him or because she wants him to face justice for what he did to her and the world?


We don't even know what he really did to her or the world. Physically she seems fine, with the exception of what appears to be angelic contamination in her eye and her perpetually teenage body, neither of which are even his fault, since the contact experiment with Unit 03 already went south before he even came into the picture. And seeing as she never mentions anything about wanting him to "face justice," you're just speculating.

And there's evidence that Kaworu was misleading him about what he did to the world.

View Original PostRay wrote:It's kind've a strain on the suspension of disbelief. I can believe that Misato and Asuka would treat Shinji the way the did after the events of 2.22, and a 14 year time skip. But if Anno is going to try for anything but a sad ending, is it really believable that they'd treat him like a human being again in the next movie? Much less as a friend and comrade? Especially considering they could lose this war with Gendo and Neo-Nerv because of what he did in 3.33?


But they did treat him like a human being even after what he did in 3.33. We see Asuka getting him back on his feet and we see Misato worrying about him. As long as he tries in the next movie, he can earn their forgiveness. Your doom-and-glooming is based on huge assumptions about the setting and about what the characters are thinking, even when we have evidence that directly contradicts or at least conflicts with what you're saying.

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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:54 pm

I know there's a lot of information to address in Ray's topic, but I'd like to remind everybody early against omnislashing. There's no need to address each and every sentence point by point in that manner.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Sicarius VI » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:04 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:This right here is the core of your problem, and it's why this whole premise falls apart. He didn't hurt them in a deep and personal way. He couldn't. They barely knew him. You act as though he was a beloved family member who betrayed them, but he wasn't; he knew Misato for a few months, and Asuka for mere weeks, and as far as both of them knew he was completely and utterly duped by Gendo into participating in 3I. He had no idea what was going on, and they know this, and they have no personal stake in hating him because he never betrayed them. He's just a frustrating, idiotic kid who inadvertently became an Impact Trigger and, in Q, was foolish enough to think he could fix things. People forgive far, far greater sins every day.


You have a few wrong things here, first Asuka in 2.22 gets time to know Shinji for a few months at least. We get this easily from what Keele is saying to Gendo near the end of the movie. He flat out states that it's been month between the beginning and that point in 2.22. Also dealing with Misato, it's been even longer say about 6 months give or take between the beginning of 1.22 and the end of 2.22.

Even so, it really doesn't take as much time as your saying to form the bonds that they do. Especially considering their work and how they see and live with each other. Even though it happens off screen you can't say the bonding between them doesn't happen and can't state that 2.22 takes place within a few weeks when we are told it's a few months.

Also let me bring in the whole argument about how Shinji saves Rei, but not Asuka. And how Asuka has had 14 years to think about that, which in turn is one of the reasons why she smashes glass in the beginning of 3.33. Shinji did have more than enough time to make a sufficient impact on Asuka and Misato.


Edit- This whole thread is a product of knowing so little about the 14 year time skip and character motivations because 3.33 refused to give us anything besides Shinji and Kaworu, and then 3.0+1.0 is coming out who knows when? I'd say being optimistic that most of this should be a lot more clearer once 3.0+1.0 gets released.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:39 am

View Original PostRay wrote:Here's a thought experiment. Imagine A person you care about deeply, a son, a girlfriend, a significant other, etc. someone you trust and love despite their flaws.

Now imagine(in the case of Asuka) that they left you to die in an accident, an accident that left you in a crippled and stunted body and/or (in the case of Misato) made you relive your childhood trauma, after burning the emotional bridge they had with you and then left you to live in a horrid mess he left behind

Your thought experiment is not based on an accurate depiction of what we are shown in the Eva films, so I see no relevance in discussing it further.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:03 am

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:You have a few wrong things here, first Asuka in 2.22 gets time to know Shinji for a few months at least. We get this easily from what Keele is saying to Gendo near the end of the movie. He flat out states that it's been month between the beginning and that point in 2.22. Also dealing with Misato, it's been even longer say about 6 months give or take between the beginning of 1.22 and the end of 2.22.


That doesn't really conflict with what I said at all.

Past that, the rest of your post seems to be addressing things I never claimed so I don't see your point. The fact that bonds can form in a short time does not mean that Shinji betrayed anyone, much less in a "deep and personal way", and that's nothing to do with the nature of forgiveness in any event.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:07 am

Misato, Ritsuko, Asuka, Sakura and Mari all treat Shinji decently when they're not in the middle of a crisis. People remember the glares he got on the bridge, but the situation in the quarantine room sweeps the legs on that argument.

Misato's anger toward Shinji is a reaction to what he does. When they're talking during the interview, she's more aloof than she used to be but is perfectly civil. She only gets angry and stern with him when he tries to do something involving the Eva. Wanting to pilot Unit 01, trying to run away with Rei, awakening Unit 13 and so on. And Asuka's parting shot at Misato when she leaves the quarantine room strongly implies this isn't an attitude that's reserved for Shinji. There's some bitterness there too.

They don't hate Shinji, they are afraid of the super power he has and what it can mean for all of them. Fair or not, he's one of two, maybe three people in the whole world who holds the key to human extinction. That's pretty goddamn scary when you think about it. If they wanted him dead, they could have quietly euthanised him in his sleep, shot down the Mark.09, shot AP rounds through Unit 13's entry plug or any number of things. Instead they put limitations on his ability to pilot an Eva, leaving him every other option in the world to do with his life. That's not much of a punishment.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Ray » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:03 pm

@Gendo'spapa
I think I like your explanation the best. . . Though I still obviously have my doubts. So you're saying Asuka doesn't blame him at all for her deformity? Her act of kindness was done for him.

I just wish someone could be unconditionally kind to Shinji. But after all he's done, I doubt anyone will be unconditional towards him again. When Misato and Wille inevitably need him to pilot the Eva again he could very well just outright accuse her of not caring for him at all again. Although at this point he's probably so broken he'll do anything anyone says without questioning orders.

Empathy man. Misato will HAVE TO find a way to apologize to Shinji for being the one - aside from Gendo - who had the biggest hand in forcing him down this life path. To put into simple perspective, it's like Shinji accidentally shot & killed a friend with a pistol BUT it was Misato who put the gun in the child's hands. Misato has to show Shinji she loves him - which she does - & that she shares the blame for all the evil that has happened so Shinji is really (Not) Alone.


But what can Shinji do to earn her forgiveness? To earn anyones forgiveness? People will still blame him, and lets just say his first impression with Wille, and possibly the rest of humanity didn't start out well.

there's a damn good chance this series could end with Shinji genuinely looking forward to a future life post Eva. Maybe the last shot could be him smiling.


I highly doubt that. Personally I see Shinji helping somewhat in the war and humanity living on and the world surviving, but I highly doubt it can be in any way believable that Shinji can have anything but a tortured, short, and miserable life after all he's done and all he's lost. To both his friends, and the world. Even if he can by some miracle reconcile with Misato and Asuka, his future isn't looking good at all.

As for Asuka. I'd say it's clear she doesn't view Shinji as a romantic partner - your ships are dead people -

Yeah. . . That IS really depressing. Shin is probably going to die a virgin after all he's guilty of. Who'd want to sleep with Impact boy?


@Lennik
you're assuming the anger is absolute


I'm not saying it is, but it would be a huge driving factor and considering the stakes they're playing for (preventing the end of the world, and the extinction of the human race), I highly doubt nuance will be on Misato and Asuka's minds when he returns. Will they even want to understand why he did what he did? Or will they just lock him away to deal with once all the adult stuff is sorted out? If they do the latter, then the whole thing will pretty much be destined for a repeat of EOE. Call me pessimistic, but I think the latter is ultimately the more likely outcome.

It's even worse that he can't just be punished for what he did. He's responsible for the deaths of a lot of people, and causing two impacts. That's a huge crime I still can't imagine anyone in the entire human race forgiving him for. If it were anyone else it would be easy. Put him on trial and see him imprisoned or executed. But he can't be punished because he was manipulated.

He's in a spot where nobody will give him a second chance or likely even see him as a human being, but those same people can't get closure by just putting him out of his misery.

@Bluebasilisk
In my opinion, that would have been much more merciful than allowing him to live. What kind of life can he honestly hope to look forward to after this?

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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:44 pm

Shinji commits suicide at the beginning of the next movie. Problem solved! Writing a fanfic for this would be super-easy, too.

Also, unconditional kindness is a terrible, terrible thing. Once you get past the infant stage and become a verbal human being, that shit will rightfully stop unless your parents are complete idiots who want to be your best friend instead of, like, be your parent. If you do something bad, you're not going to learn a damn thing if everyone pampers you like a little baby. You need to feel bad about it. Letting someone feel bad can be the greatest kindness of all. It lets you become a bigger and better person. Not a little baby. Not a brat.

I wonder if the new Eva movies are going to end up as some outlandish metaphor for "get the fuck over yourself and grow up". I wouldn't mind, honestly.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Sicarius VI » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:48 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Shinji commits suicide at the beginning of the next movie. Problem solved! Writing a fanfic for this would be super-easy, too.

Also, unconditional kindness is a terrible, terrible thing. Once you get past the infant stage and become a verbal human being, that shit will rightfully stop unless your parents are complete idiots who want to be your best friend instead of, like, be your parent. If you do something bad, you're not going to learn a damn thing if everyone pampers you like a little baby. You need to feel bad about it. Letting someone feel bad can be the greatest kindness of all. It lets you become a bigger and better person. Not a little baby. Not a brat.

I wonder if the new Eva movies are going to end up as some outlandish metaphor for "get the fuck over yourself and grow up". I wouldn't mind, honestly.


That depends on what message the Rebuilds are trying to push. Cause I doubt it's the same as NGE.

3.33 is literally like, if you fuck up and everyone hates you, do the same thing again and go catatonic. Literally what it tells viewers.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Sachi » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:26 pm

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:3.33 is literally like, if you fuck up and everyone hates you, do the same thing again and go catatonic. Literally what it tells viewers.

That is the exact opposite of what it's telling viewers. The message is that you can not redo, and that you should not make the same mistakes again. The story tells us the negative consequences of doing so and is a warning for the audience; ever heard of tragedy?
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby IronEvangelion » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:30 pm

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:3.33 is literally like, if you fuck up and everyone hates you, do the same thing again and go catatonic. Literally what it tells viewers.

The message I'm getting from NTE so far is: "If you screw up really bad and hurt a lot of people, don't try to go back and redo things, you'll only make things worse. Instead, let go of your old way of life and move on." If Shinji had followed that advice and not tried to resume his old life as an Eva pilot to 'fix things', Gendo would not have been able to start 4I.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Sicarius VI » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:38 pm

IronEvangelion wrote:The message I'm getting from NTE so far is: "If you screw up really bad and hurt a lot of people, don't try to go back and redo things, you'll only make things worse. Instead, let go of your old way of life and move on." If Shinji had followed that advice and not tried to resume his old life as an Eva pilot to 'fix things', Gendo would not have been able to start 4I.
Sachi wrote:That is the exact opposite of what it's telling viewers. The message is that you can not redo, and that you should not make the same mistakes again. The story tells us the negative consequences of doing so and is a warning for the audience; ever heard of tragedy?


Yea that message.

Thou not being the focal point of that post, I wonder where 4.0 is going to go with the it's message whatever it would be, because as Ray says, Shinji isn't getting any forgiveness.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:47 am

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:Thou not being the focal point of that post, I wonder where 4.0 is going to go with the it's message whatever it would be, because as Ray says, Shinji isn't getting any forgiveness.


And you base this conclusion on . . . ?
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:59 am

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:because as Ray says, Shinji isn't getting any forgiveness.

Many religions allow for absolute unconditional forgiveness. Even if this is as much honoured in the breach as the observance, it shows that humans have that capacity or can seriously consider it.
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Stillborn » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:08 am

^
To bad for Shinji, that Anno is a god of his world and its a spiteful and cruel deity :P
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Re: Memories Of Shinji: Months Of Good Vs A Decade of Bad

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:25 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:^
To bad for Shinji, that Anno is a god of his world and its a spiteful and cruel deity :P


That's yet to be demonstrated.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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