Q does (not) suck

[Rosenakahara]

Oh wow is this seriously a thread? i thought most people on this site liked this?


Whatever i will just continue with my heresy of preferring rebuild to the main series and thinking anyway who calls rebuild a fanfic is an idiot.

If you want me to go into detail as to why i loved 3.33 reply to me and prepare for an info dump

[ElMariachi]

It seems like the biggest complain is the lack of exposition, because we know the broad strokes of what happened and changed everyone: the red Earth and wide destruction? A Third Impact that almost succeeded happened. WILLE? The truth about SEELE and Gendo was revealed and WILLE was created to counter them. Everyone being colder and harsher? 14 years of war, that changes anyone (except Mari, but she was always nuts!)
What we didn't see the process leading to these changes: we didn't see the core erosion spreading, the FoIs being created and doing their thing, hell we didn't even saw what triggered that mass core erosion and if it has anything to do with the 12th Angel and Lilith instead of Shinji and EVA-01! We also didn't saw all the difficult decisions and stress of commandeering wearing out Misato little by little into her current persona, or the process of the foundation of WILLE, or Asuka struggling into coming to terms with her lost eye and angelic infection, how she had to work with Mari and developed a strong bond of friendship and trust.

In short, we know the end results (Red Earth, cold people...), we know the broad strokes of how we ended here (Third Impact, the war) but not the finest details. And while it's a genuine source of frustration (I would love to see the foundation of WILLE and Asuka and Mari's meeting and growing friendship during their zany and epic adventures), it's impossible to show in the main movies without breaking the rhythm of the narration (which is supposed to be from Shinji's POV I recall) since it would need at least one full movie to show everything about it. So while I'm sure that we'll get more explanations on the main events of the time skip (notably everything surrounding the 12th Angel), Misato and Co's adventures will be for a spin-off, outside of the narrative of Shinji's story.

Now for the lack of expansion on the characters that aren't Shinji and Rei Q (Kaworu was a plot device utterly dependent on Shinji to exist, his only characterization was "Gotta make Shinji happy"), that remember me a comment I made some time ago: Q is a prologue for the new setting, the same way that 1.0 was a prologue for the old setting and the Prologue arc was a prologue for NGE. Back then we didn't had a clue about any of the characters, their past or their motivations, how they worked, same for the setting: we only know that Aliens want destroy the city and that the heroes must pilot a robot to stop them.

But in Rebuild we already knew all of that: people protect a giant progenitor being that the bad aliens mustn't reach or everyone dies, while they're actually manipulated by a crazy death cult wanting to end the world on their terms to bring forth a Singularity. The details are different (Shikinami is milder than Soryu, Rei becomes more open, SEELE are more competent...) but the broad strokes are here, we know where we're going.
And with this drastic change of setting, we're almost back at square one in the first episodes of NGE, when we didn't know what's happening or the different facets of the characters!

Like I said back then: Q is a second prologue for the Rebuild, it's just that people didn't expected to see a second prologue when the review led us to believe that it'll be the climax of the quadrilogy. Now the impression that Q (and the rest of the Rebuild) will leave will depend on how FINAL follows on from the foundations laid by Q: what's the real state of the Earth (WILLE's resources must come from somewhere!), what's exactly Gendo's plan, how WILLE are going to stop him, and how Shinji will fit in all of this.

[airman4]

>3.0
>talent

Nah, bro. Some neckbeards have actually done better.

of course the neckbeards have done better ...



















Only in their "sweet doritos coca dumb" dreams !

[Giji Shinka]

I thought most people on this site liked this?

Nah, most veteran's/Hc fans dislike the film.
When something new is released to their favorite series/game franchises etc, many will automatically hate it.
This type of behavior is nothing new.

[Mr. Tines]

i thought most people on this site liked this?

Nah, most veteran's/Hc fans dislike the film.

Both these statements hold simultaneously. Evageeks seems to be contrarian, being the place that on balance hated Ha but warmed to Q.

[The Eva Monkey]

Every time I watch Evangelion 3.0, I like it less. I can't say the same for any of the other movies, including Death.

[Bagheera]

Both these statements hold simultaneously. Evageeks seems to be contrarian, being the place that on balance hated Ha but warmed to Q.

In my case, Q even helped me warm to Ha. I hated Ha for years, but seeing the way Anno turned everything on its head in Q and subverted the fuck out of everything he did in Ha just made me appreciate the two as a pair all the more.

[KingXanaduu]

What are you talking about? He never failed in the original series. He succeeded every time he got in the cockpit (Bardiel excepted, though that was less him not succeeding than him getting overruled). I guess you could note Ramiel and Israfel, but he got do-overs in both cases.

EoE was the only place he really screwed up, and that wasn't even really his fault. Q is kinda a new take on Shinji.

I'm not talking about the Angel fights or the Eva battles, Eva (to me at least) is less about the robots and more about the characters.

That said, I meant the failures between Shinji and his family/friends, how his circumstances only seemed to cause pain and hurt them in the long run.

And yes, I know that there's still a movie left, and that EoE has a silver lining that implies a better future, but as I said, I would like to SEE that possible future, even just a glimpse.

And in regards to there still be one story left, until Final comes out, I'm judging Q with what we got. When it does come out, I have no doubt my opinion will change to some degree.

[TheFriskyIan]

It did give us insight, they didn't hate on him, and he wasn't forced to do anything. The entire movie was propelled by his choices start to finish.

No it didn't, why are all these characters giving him the evil eye for things he had nothing to do with? Not hating on him? Clearly strapping a bomb to his neck, not filling him in on just the basics, and once again giving him the stink eye is their way of being "Indifferent". As far as his choices went, he was clearly manipulated, but I guess that doesn't matter and we're still supposed to blame him?

Er, no? We were given tons of clues to piece together the story. We've done that in plenty of discussion threads right here. We don't have all of it just yet, but we didn't have it in the original series either until EoE (and not even really then; we didn't get all the answers until NGE2 and the Classified Information, but most of that was confirmation of what we already suspected).

Speculation is not "Piecing it all together". It's one thing to leave some things in the realm of speculation, it's another thing entirely to leave everything important in there. Q was the perfect chance to shed some light on the questions brought forth in the first two movies, but instead it kept us in the dark and left us there for all that and more.

[Bagheera]

No it didn't, why are all these characters giving him the evil eye for things he had nothing to do with?

They aren't (Midori's the only one who really did), and he obviously started it. We don't know what happened next, but we know he was the trigger.

Not hating on him? Clearly strapping a bomb to his neck, not filling him in on just the basics, and once again giving him the stink eye is their way of being "Indifferent".

They did fill him in on the basics, at least until he ran away.

As far as his choices went, he was clearly manipulated, but I guess that doesn't matter and we're still supposed to blame him?

I don't see the movie telling us to blame anyone. I don't see a lot of manipulation, either, apart from Kaworu. Everything else is "Don't do it, you moron!" and Shinji ignoring everything in front of him. Again, we aren't told to blame him for this -- there are reasons, after all -- but pretending he had no choices along the way is absurd.

Speculation is not "Piecing it all together".

That's exactly what it is. We have the teaser from Ha, and we have what Kaworu showed us in Q. That's a lot of information. Just because Anno didn't spoonfeed us the particulars doesn't mean the evidence isn't there. And really, apart from the connection between Unit 01 getting speared and the events that took place in CD, there's very little we need to know but don't. There's plenty we want to know, of course, but most of it isn't needed to make the story work.

[robersora]

There's plenty we want to know, of course, but most of it isn't needed to make the story work.

Which is the main drawing point towards ENT. While everything what made Evangelion so fascinatingly complex is watered down a considerable amount the whole scope of convoluted plot still sells it to me as Evangelion.

And the animation. O M G THE ANIMATION.

[TheFriskyIan]

They aren't (Midori's the only one who really did), and he obviously started it. We don't know what happened next, but we know he was the trigger.

Yes they are. They clearly give him more than just a curious glance. None of them are happy about his presence. Furthermore, whatever happened after the events of 2.0 have nothing to do with Shinji, Shinji's role in everything died as soon as Kaworu through the spear from orbit. They have only themselves to blame after he came down.

They did fill him in on the basics, at least until he ran away.

Being cryptic =/= filling him in on the basics.

I don't see the movie telling us to blame anyone. I don't see a lot of manipulation, either, apart from Kaworu. Everything else is "Don't do it, you moron!" and Shinji ignoring everything in front of him. Again, we aren't told to blame him for this -- there are reasons, after all -- but pretending he had no choices along the way is absurd.

Shinji being manipulated by Kaworu into piloting Eva 13, and Kaworu didn't really sell his point after the fact. "Shinji, we HAVE to get those spears!" "Nah man, don't touch them spears!" And why the Hell would he listen to Asuka when she was just trying to kill him? Cause I take advice from the first person that attacks me and then throws insults like a child, which is another grand flaw of Q in that characters have years to develop but still act in the most bullshit immature manner.

That's exactly what it is. We have the teaser from Ha, and we have what Kaworu showed us in Q. That's a lot of information. Just because Anno didn't spoonfeed us the particulars doesn't mean the evidence isn't there. And really, apart from the connection between Unit 01 getting speared and the events that took place in CD, there's very little we need to know but don't. There's plenty we want to know, of course, but most of it isn't needed to make the story work.

That's a lot of information that leads to a lot of....nothing. Hey, we got the Mark 06 in Dogma, two spears, Lilith's corpse, and her head in the old command center, what does it mean? Pffft, your guess is as good as mine. None of that information actually leads to piecing together what happened. For all we know, Dinosaurs could have sprang up and started Third Impact, it would still make more sense than blaming Shinji.

[Bagheera]

Yes they are.

No, they aren't. Again, Midori's the only one who's even remotely negative. The others are neutral/curious.

As to 3I, it's clear that it does have something to do with Shinji, since Kaworu clearly tells us as much.

Being cryptic =/= filling him in on the basics.

They weren't being cryptic. They were being quite straightforward, but he left before they could finish. That's hardly their fault.

Shinji being manipulated by Kaworu into piloting Eva 13, and Kaworu didn't really sell his point after the fact. "Shinji, we HAVE to get those spears!" "Nah man, don't touch them spears!" And why the Hell would he listen to Asuka when she was just trying to kill him? Cause I take advice from the first person that attacks me and then throws insults like a child, which is another grand flaw of Q in that characters have years to develop but still act in the most bullshit immature manner.

IOW Kaworu's being manipulative, but everyone else is saying "Don't do it!", just as I said. The only bullshit I see here is from you.

That's a lot of information that leads to a lot of....nothing.

Bullshit. It's led to an awful lot of insights here. Sorry if you couldn't be bothered to pay attention to the relevant threads, but there was a lot of good info in them. Again, the fact that you're incredulous doesn't mean you're right. Get a better argument.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Settle down, folks. Unnecessary tensions on either side happening.

[Ray]

It's obvious Midori would give him the evil eye, she had to Grow up in this post apocalyptic world and the captain isn't immediately shooting him for doing it.

Whether it was out of mercy or necessity we'll find out in Final.

[TheFriskyIan]

No, they aren't. Again, Midori's the only one who's even remotely negative. The others are neutral/curious.

As to 3I, it's clear that it does have something to do with Shinji, since Kaworu clearly tells us as much.

Tama's look doesn't show curiousness/indifference, neither does Koji's.

As to 3I: How? How is Shinji responsible? I want more than Kaworu's word since he likes to leave out major points like how he stopped N3I (which would have made Shinji ask my question: How is Shinji responsible?). Point is, if you're gonna blame Shinji, you're gonna need to show proof that he's responsible.

They weren't being cryptic. They were being quite straightforward, but he left before they could finish. That's hardly their fault.

"Ayanami Rei no longer exists."
What does that even mean?

"You can't pilot Unit 01 anymore."
So why am I even wearing this bomb if I can't pilot it and you guys plan on keeping me with you?

"Your choker is insurance for us."
Care to elaborate Ritsuko? I just woke up from a 14 year nap, the only thing I remember was killing the 10th Angel.

"It's the curse of the Eva."
Sure would be nice if I got some insight into what that actually is considering I'm the former pilot of Unit 01 so that might involve me.

The only time they were being straightforward was right before Shinji GTFO'd out of there and I would too if they kept giving me vague responses that don't help me grasp the situation. Had the Mark 09 not showed up, I doubt they would have even told him about WILLE or NERV.

IOW Kaworu's being manipulative, but everyone else is saying "Don't do it!", just as I said. The only bullshit I see here is from you.

Only one other person was saying don't do it and she was trying to kill Shinji. What credibility does Asuka have after not only being vague when he was on the Wundar but just called him brat nonstop while attacking him? Shinji and Eva 13 was standing perfectly still meaning he was willing to talk, but Asuka just decided to mindlessly attack while insulting him. Clearly Shinji was in the wrong by fighting back when somebody wont even stop throwing a temper tantrum when he's in the picture.

Bullshit. It's led to an awful lot of insights here. Sorry if you couldn't be bothered to pay attention to the relevant threads, but there was a lot of good info in them. Again, the fact that you're incredulous doesn't mean you're right. Get a better argument.

All the threads we've had on this information just gives us more questions or vague possibilities. It certainly does not give us any insight as to what actually happened other than speculation. There are no answers coming from this information, only possibilities, and that's not good enough. What information did the next time preview give us that actually led to answers in Q? Nothing. What did what we see in Q actually give us answers to what actually happened during the time skip? We got Third Impact, but no information about it (other than wrongly putting all the blame on Shinji for it). The Mark 06 thread is a perfect example of this, we get well over ten pages of discussion but no real leads to figuring out what actually happened to the Mark 06. If I missed some grand thread that used all the clues that has filled everyone else in on the questions Q gave us answers, please point me in the right direction, but from what I'm seeing from others peoples posts, such a thread does not exist.

Settle down, folks. Unnecessary tensions on either side happening.

I'm perfectly calm. The "Tension" in my posts is coming from Anno and the movie.

[kboyrulez12345]

Only one other person was saying don't do it and she was trying to kill Shinji. What credibility does Asuka have after not only being vague when he was on the Wundar but just called him brat nonstop while attacking him? Shinji and Eva 13 was standing perfectly still meaning he was willing to talk, but Asuka just decided to mindlessly attack while insulting him. Clearly Shinji was in the wrong by fighting back when somebody wont even stop throwing a temper tantrum when he's in the picture.

Just want to add this in, I don't believe that Asuka was trying to kill Shinji. I believe she was just trying to subdue him actually. I know that doesn't really change your argument much, but I just wanted to point that out for the sake of clarifying it.

[Guy Nacks]

Just want to add this in, I don't believe that Asuka was trying to kill Shinji. I believe she was just trying to subdue him actually. I know that doesn't really change your argument much, but I just wanted to point that out for the sake of clarifying it.

Just die, Baka-Shinji!!!

YMMV on how much she meant this, but she sure does seem pissed and full of intense hatred in that moment.

[Ray]

Well she had him at her mercy at the end of 3., and she could have just killed him and been done with it. But she didn't. If this was out of genuine pity or just military protocol, we'll find out in 3.0.

If she really did mean it, she probably would have said something like

"I've been dreaming about killing you for years you brat!"

- - -

But back on topic. . . This film. . . really upset me. Seriously Anno! Cut the kid a break already! You heartless fiend!

Can we STOP THIS CRUEL GAME? And allow the boy to keep ONE SHRED of human dignity!? For GOD’S sake! I can’t stand to see him in all this pain! YOU VICIOUS BASTARDS! Is it so bad to see him happy?!
-Chris Farley (The Herlihy Boy Sketch) and my general attitude toward Anno after 3.0

[kboyrulez12345]

YMMV on how much she meant this, but she sure does seem pissed and full of intense hatred in that moment.

Yeah about that, I was sure that it was discussed years ago that that was from an earlier fan sub translation and that was inaccurate.