Mari is irrelevant?! {not character bashing}

[pwhodges]

The final image will be Shinji watching Mari ride off with his harem while a sad trombone plays. -FIN-

After which he returns to his room to look at his shrine to the memory of...

[ElMariachi]

@ Merkaba : I remember your theory, a pretty good one. And so according to it, Mari will play the role of "Warrior Therapist" for Shinji in FINAL?

Well that would tie with her previous interactions with Shinji, where she already showed similar tendencies : first in 2.0 when she picked him up from the bunker she crashed into, while telling him that he should stop torturing his mind about what he must of mustn't do, and in Q with her rousing speech just before ejecting EVA-13's entry plug.(a shame that apparently Shinji was too broken at that point to even realize that someone was talking to him)

Her good mood, detachment to the events around her and laid back character suits her fine for providing life lessons, like Kaji(and coincidentally the two of them were acquaintance in 2.0!)

Maybe with some chance bot her and Kaji will be at that place when Shinji will ends up, and will be the ones to teach him hope again, 'cause he really needs some guidance, preferably from people who don't judge him!


Also, does that means that the endgame will be Shinji x Mari?

[Reichu]

Mari represents Anno's wife

I don't see any indications from the interviews that this is true. It just seems like something fans want to be true.

someone who wasn't completely fucked in the head and helped him get through his depressive state.

This sounds like more mythology to me. Anno's classic depressive phase happened in response to Nadia, and making Eva was his personal art therapy. By the time he got into a serious relationship with Moyoco, I would guess that the major depression was long since a thing of the past.

What we do know: Mari is the one character who doesn't represent some part of Anno's psyche. Kazuya Tsurumaki was entrusted with her development.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Are we suggesting that things not related to the plot are not relevant to the narrative as a whole? Because, I don't agree with that idea. There's a reason why the omission of Tom Bombadil hindered the LoTR movies from being as powerful as they could have been, and it was more than just fan boys but-hurting about the movies not having every single character from the books. The character introduced some very prominent thematic elements in the narrative and focused more on the positive side of the magic in that universe that otherwise would have been quickly forgotten without his character. If you were to watch the movies first (as I did,) you would get the impression that the majority of the magic in Middle-Earth is evil and must be destroyed, and not Sauron's magic specifically being evil and needing destruction. Sure, the filmmakers could have tried to tie in the idea of "good magic" into the film trilogy in other ways, and there are some blink-and-you'll-miss-them references to the "magic of the elves" and how it's usual positive side-effects. (Galadriel gives Frodo the Light of Elendil in film one, suggesting that some magic can be good. But it, along with the only surviving reminder of the good magic in this story, is never focused on at all and is hardly mentioned until Frodo needs a deus ex machina-esque rescue in film three.)

The same thing is true for Mari in Evangelion. Like Tom Bombadil, it can be argued that she doesn't have too much to do with the plot at all. (Though, it does seem like she was one of the first Kaji contacted about being a pilot for Wille in 2.22.) But in the same way like Tom Bombadil was a prominent reminder in the LoTR books that there was good magic on Middle-Earth, Mari is the prominent reminder in the NTE movies of normal people, especially normal children (I'm assuming that, even with those bosoms, Mari is closer to the ages of 16 or 17), and especially in Eva Q when all other normal children have died off. She's the reminder of why Wille exists: to have society return to that state of youths simply being youthful, rather then have them half-orphaned and assimilated to battle with the cosmically scaled Kaiju by age 13 or 14.

So, yeah. She has little to do with the plot. And she's destroying Eva. But if Eva was all about a bleak and unforgiving future where all of humanity is engulfed by an all-consuming goddess, then being the reminder of why the characters are fighting to get away from that is a good way to "break Eva."

EDIT: I realize now that Gandalf also has good magic. But for some reason, I never readily equated Wizard or Witch magic with the rest of the magic in that movie. Strange, huh?

[ElMariachi]

^
The problem with your interpretation is that Mari is not a normal person : we're talking about a character happily singing while an alien abomination is rampaging through the base she's stationed in, who happily shrug off intense pain because piloting Eva is fun, who gets aroused by the smell of LCL which smells like blood, and who almost get off from the sympathetic pain of her Eva transforming into Beast Mode.

Mari is not normal : she's a bloodthirsty maniac the moment she steps into an Eva who happens to be able to keep herself under control when not piloting, which give her a semblance of normalcy, sure she's better adjusted to the world of Eva, but that's because the world of Eva is fucked up.

[Lord ikari shinji]

So, yeah. She has little to do with the plot. And she's destroying Eva. But if Eva was all about a bleak and unforgiving future where all of humanity is engulfed by an all-consuming goddess, then being the reminder of why the characters are fighting to get away from that is a good way to "break Eva."

indeed Mari has *broken* has Eva, and I do believe I'm starting to understand her character concept (due to must of the post ) but she (and must of the other changes) turned Eva. into a mainstream thing, in others words dumb it down into something the viewers of today/ this generation can easily grasp as anime(the rebuilds feel like some shounen crap like naruto, bleach, etc.) . Eva. has lost it ambiguous feel and that something that I will condemn Anno & his Mari for doing. hopefully the finale of this EVA wanna be films redeems the RoE series and shines true to the true concept of Evangelion, although its a different take on the story in general.

NGE & EoE > RoE

but......., what mari's development as a character in this story{i.e. her goals, her past etc.}/ what makes her so relevant to must of you?

[pwhodges]

turned Eva. into a mainstream thing, [...] Eva. has lost it ambiguous feel

I am just rewatching the series; and one thing that struck me most forcibly is that without pre-knowledge fully the first half of the series gives no hint of the way that it will go after that. Same with the films, then, I'd say.

[Lord ikari shinji]

I am just rewatching the series; and one thing that struck me most forcibly is that without pre-knowledge fully the first half of the series gives no hint of the way that it will go after that. Same with the films, then, I'd say.

you can say that for 3.33 and probably 4.44 giving the 14 year time skip other like I said the RoE are mainstreamed

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I am just rewatching the series; and one thing that struck me most forcibly is that without pre-knowledge fully the first half of the series gives no hint of the way that it will go after that. Same with the films, then, I'd say.

I agree. No one was waiting for the other show to drop when watching NGE for the first time, yet people were with the new series only because they had seen the older series.

Also, "turned Eva into a mainstream thing"? Wasn't this series always obscenely popular, originally created by an even more popular studio? Remember, NGE was created by the same studio and creative team that created Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water, a television series so popular that NHK actually asked Anno to add more episodes simply because the ratings were that good.

There was never any one point that Eva wasn't mainstream. There was also never any one point that Anno's Eva was very easy to grasp, even with the new series. (Many of the fans in Japan were struggling with Eva Q during its initial release.)

[Lord ikari shinji]

There was also never any one point that Anno's Eva was very easy to grasp, even with the new series.

evangelion was very philosophic and had the workings of complex characters{character with a meaning behind them}, you can't sit here and talk me that you from the beginning to the end of the original series went out questioning the entire psych of characters like Asuka, ritsuko, Shinji etc. and got the entire message of the series (episode.25-26 & EoE) with no review hmmmmmm.....

Also, "turned Eva into a mainstream thing"?

as in no or not much different from anime like naruto, attack on titian etc.
not popularity

it {the RoE} loss its uniqueness in my opinion

[Rodeo]

The same thing is true for Mari in Evangelion. Like Tom Bombadil, it can be argued that she doesn't have too much to do with the plot at all. (Though, it does seem like she was one of the first Kaji contacted about being a pilot for Wille in 2.22.) But in the same way like Tom Bombadil was a prominent reminder in the LoTR books that there was good magic on Middle-Earth, Mari is the prominent reminder in the NTE movies of normal people, especially normal children (I'm assuming that, even with those bosoms, Mari is closer to the ages of 16 or 17), and especially in Eva Q when all other normal children have died off. She's the reminder of why Wille exists: to have society return to that state of youths simply being youthful, rather then have them half-orphaned and assimilated to battle with the cosmically scaled Kaiju by age 13 or 14.

I object to this reading since Mari is arguably the least normal character of the bunch. I mean she comes of as almost deranged at times, there was this early version of her that had this weird practice of tattooing the names of her dead pets on her body or something like that. Mari didn't turn out quite that extreme in the end but she still retains all these bizarre traits, such as her obsession with smells, that make her seem pretty funny in the head.

Edit: Beaten. This ended up taking a while.

I'd say Shinji and Asuka are very much normal kids. People like to obsess over the part of this one show where everyone gets depressed, but it's just that, one part of the show. Most of the time Asuka is pretty darn cheery and Shinji is a pretty typical quiet kid with confidence issues. But even if they don't represent what normal kids are like, what about Toji and Kensuke or the rest of their classmates?
The problem I have with Mari is that this "funny" personality of hers feels very forced and very gimmicky, like they were really desperate in trying to find a niche for her that wasn't already covered by the existing (very well rounded) cast. Clearly not a character who arose naturally through the process of writing.

[TheFriskyIan]

as in no or not much different from anime like naruto, attack on titian etc.
not popularity

Except the popularity has always made Eva like those "mainstream" shows, the only thing that has really changed is the number of fans it currently has. What makes it different from those other popular shows has always been there, and still is here now with Rebuild.

it {the RoE} loss its uniqueness in my opinion

I for one feel that uniqueness is still there. The fact that such controversy behind Ha and Q remain despite its popularity is what I believe makes it so unique from your typical popular show where people criticize them for being all the same.

[ElMariachi]

I object to this reading since Mari is arguably the least normal character of the bunch. I mean she comes of as almost deranged at times, there was this early version of her that had this weird practice of tattooing the names of her dead pets on her body or something like that. Mari didn't turn out quite that extreme in the end but she still retains all these bizarre traits, such as her obsession with smells, that make her seem pretty funny in the head.

You know, when you think about it, it's a big testament of how fucked up the world of Q is that the only character who seems to thrive in it is Mari!

[Lord ikari shinji]

Except the popularity has always made Eva like those "mainstream" shows, the only thing that has really changed is the number of fans it currently has. What makes it different from those other popular shows has always been there, and still is here now with Rebuild.


I for one feel that uniqueness is still there. The fact that such controversy behind Ha and Q remain despite its popularity is what I believe makes it so unique from your typical popular show where people criticize them for being all the same.

WELL, if you put it that way, yeah I can see your point of view but when I was watching NGE it felt really different from animes like naruto, bleach, etc./ it felt new in a sense.

never the last, the rebuilds despite 3.33 (that I actually like due to the new take on the story/plot) feel similar to the show I somewhat detest, and I guess that why im so disappointed in it

[Redtophat]

What am I even reading from some of you people?

SPOILER: Show

[NemZ]

Mari deserves her own damn show, and she clearly knows it. There simply has to be some sort of deconstruction coming with her, otherwise she's just some wayward Slider who accidentally the whole rebuilds.

Tom Bombadil

You're clearly insane. Cutting that idiot was one of the best alterations PJ made.

[Warren Peace]

What am I even reading from some of you people?

#PickTheNewEvaGeeksSlogan

[pwhodges]

You're clearly insane. Cutting that idiot [Tom Bombadil] was one of the best alterations PJ made.

Rubbish. It contributed to turning something unique into a rather conventional adventure epic (albeit a well-done one, though somewhat overblown).

But I doubt that Mari's significance is as great as Tom's, even if she has a somewhat similar role.

[Warren Peace]

No no, Kaworu is Tom Bombadil. Both represent digressions from the "main" story that some fans deride as pointless sidetracking, while others hail the characters as worthy microcosms encapsulating the tale's broader themes.

[pwhodges]

No, not Kaworu. Tom represents a greater and longer-lasting world within which the events of the main story take place, and thus gives a perspective that is otherwise lacking. The parallel with Mari's role that someone suggested is not precise, but has some interest.