How do you feel about Asuka's treatment in Q?
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How do you feel about Asuka's treatment in Q?
I remember reading that a big point of disappointment in 2.0 was that Asuka's screen time was very limited, and some even felt that her character development was rather shallow. In retrospect, do Asuka fans (or for that matter, Asuka's detractors) feel that Anno's favorite character was better handled in 3.0? Do you embrace and furthermore, enjoy the differences between Soryu and Shikinami and they way she has progressed or because Rebuild seems to be very much Shinji's POV, have you accepted that Asuka (at least at this point in the game) won't have the same in depth character progression as her TV counterpart?
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A small scene showing Asuka and Mari off duty would have been nice, but the movie's fine without one anyway.
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We do get a feeling that Shikinami has become less focused on piloting that she was in 2.0 and her Soryu incarnation- particularly in the scene in which she self-destructs her Eva to save the Wunder. She seems more focused on what's important, and doesn't seem as reliant on piloting as before.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀
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Re: How do you feel about Asuka's treatment in Q?
She got way more screen time in 2.0 over 3.0, and as for being shallow I don't see it. Regardless, she is still infinitely better than Soryu, even if she started acting a bit aggressive in her battle with Eva 13 "Die Shinji!" I'll never get over the scene in the end though, where she's kicking Shinji when's already down about what happened, wasn't really called for Asuka.
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Re: How do you feel about Asuka's treatment in Q?
TheFriskyIan wrote:She got way more screen time in 2.0 over 3.0, and as for being shallow I don't see it. Regardless, she is still infinitely better than Soryu, even if she started acting a bit aggressive in her battle with Eva 13 "Die Shinji!" I'll never get over the scene in the end though, where she's kicking Shinji when's already down about what happened, wasn't really called for Asuka.
Maybe she got more screen time in 20 than 3.0, but her screen-time in the latter was far more relevant to the plot than in 2.0.
As for the "Shut up and die, brat Shinji!" line, that was a mistranslation from UTW, the true line was more along the line of "Go down quietly, bratty Shinji!" Going down being surrendering rather than dying.
As for the scene at the end, I found it understandable, not fair due the all the crap Shinji as gone through with the revelations he got in neo-NERV and Kaworu's death, but understandable nonetheless :
1/ Asuka didn't knew what Shinji has gone through, nor that he was completely desperate and more than half-insane when they fought. For all she knew, Shinji was willingly working for neo-NERV because he's has been tricked into thinking that by retrieving the two magical spears, he could fix everything... which was partially the case : he wanted to retrieve the spears to fix the world, but also trying to thwart neo-NERV.
2/ at the end of the movie, she had to make a gruelling fight, the world was almost obliterated by another Impact, she had to self-destruct her own Evangelion and is stranded in a desert of core with hours, if not days or marching ahead to reach a place were the Wunder can pick them up... all of this because Shinji acted like a selfish kid and refused to listen to anyone!(I recall that it's her POV, she don't know about Shinji's previous mental state, nor the fact that Gendo manipulated him into reaching said point) So she understandably had a lot of frustration to vent off, the fact that she "just" manhandled him instead of destroying his face and took upon herself to take care of him is a proof that she don't outright hate him, she's really frustrated and exasperated for sure(his unresponsive catatonic state surely not helping!), but not hateful.
In fact the scene that bothered me the more about her is their first meeting in the interrogation room : last time they "interacted" the guy saved her life, yet the first thing she did is punching a glass because of "pent-up anger and grief"... everyone else also have a lot of "pent-up anger and grief" but they didn't reacted that violently... even Sakura, a fellow adult but still one of the younger crew members of the Wunder, was completely freaked out by Asuka's outburst! And the rest of their conversation where she basically treated him like crap wasn't better. Unless that scene was here to showcase how she didn't matured that much under that "curse of Eva", I really can't understand the logic behind it.
Although the worst was undoubtedly the fact that Misato and Ritsuko didn't even moved an inch the whole time time! Hell Ritsuko didn't even turned in her chair! Had Sakura not been with Shinji and freaked out, I would have thought that Shinji actually hallucinated the whole scene!
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
ElMariachi: that's pretty much exactly how I felt about it too.
You haven't seen this guy for 14 years. He's got no idea of what passed during the missing time interval. When you went to retrieve his giant robot sarcophagus, the giant robot saves your hide.
So naturally, the first thing you do when you see him on the other side of some plexiglass is punch it as hard as you can.
I didn't mind the rest. Just that. Made it feel like N3I was a month ago, not a decade ago.
You haven't seen this guy for 14 years. He's got no idea of what passed during the missing time interval. When you went to retrieve his giant robot sarcophagus, the giant robot saves your hide.
So naturally, the first thing you do when you see him on the other side of some plexiglass is punch it as hard as you can.
I didn't mind the rest. Just that. Made it feel like N3I was a month ago, not a decade ago.
Charsi wrote:ElMariachi: that's pretty much exactly how I felt about it too.
You haven't seen this guy for 14 years. He's got no idea of what passed during the missing time interval. When you went to retrieve his giant robot sarcophagus, the giant robot saves your hide.
So naturally, the first thing you do when you see him on the other side of some plexiglass is punch it as hard as you can.
I didn't mind the rest. Just that. Made it feel like N3I was a month ago, not a decade ago.
Likewise. I am glad Asuka got some substantial screentime, but I am quite disappointed in the lack of maturity that should have developed by now in a 28 year old woman even if she was physically eternally 14.
It was first displayed in the "I know you just saved my ass and it seems like the same day you broke the world to you, but I am pissed off so talk to the fist" moment, and was not helped by her behaviour and refusal to listen to Shinji at all in Central Dogma.
Of course all the characters except ReiQ and Mari passed the idiot ball back and forth in that entire sequence, but that dosen't help the feeling that Asuka is almost as frozen in time as Shinji. Sorry Anno, but calling someone "Bratty Shinji" instead of "Stupid Shinji" =/= maturity.
Last edited by Jurrasic on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you feel about Asuka's treatment in Q?
TheFriskyIan wrote:She got way more screen time in 2.0 over 3.0, and as for being shallow I don't see it. Regardless, she is still infinitely better than Soryu, even if she started acting a bit aggressive in her battle with Eva 13 "Die Shinji!" I'll never get over the scene in the end though, where she's kicking Shinji when's already down about what happened, wasn't really called for Asuka.
She doesn't even kick him, she puts her foot in his back and pushes him over. Hardly the brutal assault some people make it out to be and nowhere near as bad as her flying roundhouse to the face in 2.0. In fact, I think 2.0 Asuka would have decked him at the very least after everything he'd just done.
Asuka's got a lot of pent-up resentment for Shinji and that's the chink in her armor. Look at what she says when she punches the glass: "It's no good. I can't stop myself. I've been holding it in all these years." It's clearly something she's not proud of, too.
Yes, his giant robot did save her ass with eye lasers when they were in space, but the last time they'd interacted face-to-face before that, that same giant robot mauled and tried to eat her. And then it caused some part of Third Impact. The first one was out of his hands, but we don't know how much she knows or remembers about that. She has pretty good reason to be pissed off at him from her point of view.
Shinji has really turned into a narrative black hole in this movie; discussion of other characters or most anything else comes back to him and his treatment.
AN-E-WAY, I was really, really happy with Asuka's portrayal in this movie. She finally gets to be the bad-ass she claims to be without immediately succumbing to the Worf Effect the minute the Angels/Nemeses/Enemy Evas pull out something unexpected. It was nice to see her interacting with Misato on more equal footing for a change, and her snarky teamwork banter with Mari was one of the highlights of the film for me. She listened to that whole damn song in the beginning and never once told Mari to shut up; says wonders for her self-control
I agree with the others who wished to see more quiet moments with her, Mari and the Wille crew, though. The movie needed some breathing room without Shinji or a battle scene to really establish how much the characters had and hadn't changed while we were away, and it never got that.
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Re: How do you feel about Asuka's treatment in Q?
BlueBasilisk wrote:I agree with the others who wished to see more quiet moments with her, Mari and the Wille crew, though. The movie needed some breathing room without Shinji or a battle scene to really establish how much the characters had and hadn't changed while we were away, and it never got that.
To be fair, not knowing anything about the other character outside of their scenes with Shinji was a vital part of the film to make us feel as confused as him, if any such scenes must happen, it will be in FINAL or in side material.
But overall except that scene(if it's purpose isn't revealed in FINAL to be an hint of some psychological side-effect of the curse in the victim's maturity) I'm really pleased by Asuka's portrayal in 3.0 : at last we see the ace pilot she's supposed to be, able to fend off for herself and save the day!
As for her teamwork with Mari, it's another thing I longed to see but never came to fruition until that film : actual functional and durable teamwork between EVA pilots! The teamwork we glimpsed in NGE when the trio defeated Matarael or in 2.0 when they defeated Sahaquiel that never came to be because of their psychological issues and traumatic events is now in full force with Asuka and Mari, and it's awesome!
I wonder if a third pilot will be added in FINAL(ReiQ, Shinji, another one?), so we can finally see the so awaited teamwork between three pilots!
Last edited by ElMariachi on Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
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Jurrasic wrote:It was first displayed in the "I know you just saved my ass again and it seems like the same day you broke the world to you, but I am pissed off so talk to the fist" moment, and was not helped by her behaviour and refusal to listen to Shinji at all in Central Dogma.
Of course all the characters except ReiQ and Mari passed the idiot ball back and forth in that entire sequence, but that dosen't help the feeling that Asuka is almost as frozen in time as Shinji. Sorry Anno, but calling someone "Bratty Shinji" instead of "Stupid Shinji" =/= maturity.
Tell me when is it that Shinji saved her ass before the beginning of 3.0 (seriously...). Also Asuka wasn't there for fun and if she hadn't brought him down to earth, Shinji would have never even come back (which would have been better for him probably, but still...). In 2.0 Shinji failed to help her out if i remember it right (he didn't even try actually...)
ElMariachi wrote:To be fair, not knowing anything about the other character outside of their scenes with Shinji was a vital part of the film to make us feel as confused as him, if any such scenes must happen, it will be in FINAL or in side material.
Yep, agree here.
Also, just pointing out that Asuka Shikinami never lost a fight... For all we know she's always been a great pilot. Even in the series she was the best pilot for a while. Things started to take a turn for the worse after ep.16, when Shinji beat her in the tests... In Eoe the last battle is hers and she proves what she can really do.
Q may be the first time in which she shows to be more interested in completing the mission than in proving her value. But even then, we have no evidence that Shikinami wasn't alrdy like that in 2.0.
ElMariachi wrote:As for the scene at the end, I found it understandable, not fair due the all the crap Shinji as gone through with the revelations he got in neo-NERV and Kaworu's death, but understandable nonetheless :
That scene is connected to the "study" of Asuka and Shinji's relationship in Eoe, during the mindrape. Its point being that Shinji did try to help Asuka out, but because of the fact that he helped her selfishly (quoting "i help you so that we can stay together forever") he could never really make her feel better. When you help a person selfishly, you never do anything to make that person angry, because you fear rejection. We know that Asuka (Soryu) doesn't accept the idea of needing help from other people (to unhealthy degrees), which means that Shinji can never truly help her out, because the only way to support her would be to go, openly, against her conscious "wishes" (wall of jericho scene being the best example of that) and feelings. Shinji doesn't really love Asuka, he loves the idea of being together with Asuka (similar to what Asuka feels for Kaji). Typical of romantic feelings that start out as a crush btw (nothing too serious and there's always time to change).
The last scene in 3.0, on the other hand, is meant to convey the idea that Asuka is helping the guy selflessly. She doesn't care about being liked by him (she pushes him, pulls his hair); she only cares about helping him out. Unlike Shinji (in NGE), she doesn't simply turn around and walk away when Shinji shows no sign of cooperation (even though she probably wanted to, for a second...), instead she forcefully helps him out, because it's the only way Shinji could ever get out of that situation alive.
So yeah, my point being that the last scene is a real sign of growth for Asuka, exactly because of the more "violent" side of the rescue (at least this is what i think Anno is trying to convey, i may be wrong...). Not denying that there's still some immaturity in Asuka, but it's no big deal. I think she actually treats him fairly. We've seen how the way Kaworu treated Shinji wasn't the right one. He may as well receive the "Asuka-treatment" now, maybe it's what he needs...
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AlphaGamma wrote:Tell me when is it that Shinji saved her ass before the beginning of 3.0 (seriously...). Also Asuka wasn't there for fun and if she hadn't brought him down to earth, Shinji would have never even come back (which would have been better for him probably, but still...). In 2.0 Shinji failed to help her out if i remember it right (he didn't even try actually...)
Not before 3.0, at the START of 3.0. Remember? Eva02-Dash getting carved up like a roast turkey in space from Mk04b's focused-light beam? Asuka is so hurt and scared she screams for Stupid Shinji to do something, and low and behold, Stupid Shinji berzerks out of the stasis field inside the Tesseract and uses Unit 1's nifty angelic eye-beam to tear up all the reflection panels and then Mk4b itself. The last thing we see before fading away to re-entry is Asuka's shocked face. She knows who saved her.
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Jurrasic wrote:Not before 3.0, at the START of 3.0. Remember? Eva02-Dash getting carved up like a roast turkey in space from Mk04b's focused-light beam? Asuka is so hurt and scared she screams for Stupid Shinji to do something, and low and behold, Stupid Shinji berzerks out of the stasis field inside the Tesseract and uses Unit 1's nifty angelic eye-beam to tear up all the reflection panels and then Mk4b itself. The last thing we see before fading away to re-entry is Asuka's shocked face. She knows who saved her.
I think AlphaGamma was referring the phrase you used :
The "again" implying that there was another time when he saved her, and I really don't think she saw her being mauled by the Dummy System as being saved.
Na7e wrote:None of them are particularly good anyways. The only real fight that made me impressed at ones piloting skill was Asuka's opening scene. But, then she's railroaded into cooking wars and being a damsel. But other than that there haven't been scenes that make me go wow...what a great pilot.
And what about her fight against the pseudo-evolved Mark.09 when she used "Code 777"? That was fucking impressive : she jumped on the Wunder's wing, evaded various eye beams while in the air, transformed mid-air, precisely shoot Mark.09's core from the other side of the Wunder and did a point-blank, then ate another eye beam before managing to get close to Mark.09 and rip-off its head and shoot its inside.
On a purely martial level she had a clean victory over Mark.09, and if that thing wasn't equipped with SEELE's special cheating protection plate and the Evangelion itself not being an almost indestructible full-body core, the fight would have ended here! And Asuka is piloting a "normal" production model Evangelion cobbled with mechanical parts!
Or you could also count Mari's giant parkour to catch EVA-13 and eject Shinji. Or Shinji's own insane parkour in 2.0 to catch Sahaquiel.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Jurrasic wrote:Not before 3.0, at the START of 3.0. Remember? Eva02-Dash getting carved up like a roast turkey in space from Mk04b's focused-light beam? Asuka is so hurt and scared she screams for Stupid Shinji to do something, and low and behold, Stupid Shinji berzerks out of the stasis field inside the Tesseract and uses Unit 1's nifty angelic eye-beam to tear up all the reflection panels and then Mk4b itself. The last thing we see before fading away to re-entry is Asuka's shocked face. She knows who saved her.
Here's a picture of Asuka's reaction just for reference.
SPOILER: Show
That's one of the things that bothered me in Q. Just how quickly she goes from, "Wow you saved me" to "face-punch."
The last scene in 3.0, on the other hand, is meant to convey the idea that Asuka is helping the guy selflessly
I wouldn't say she's doing all that selflessly. They have a history, she probably couldn't leave him there if she wanted. Also, I'd say it's her duty to take Shinji with her. Wille would most likely want to keep Shinji under their control, as Nerv still may find value in him as an Impact Trigger.
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I think AlphaGamma was referring the phrase you used :
View Original Post Jurrasic wrote:
It was first displayed in the "I know you just saved my ass again and it seems like the same day you broke the world to you, but I am pissed off so talk to the fist" moment, and was not helped by her behaviour and refusal to listen to Shinji at all in Central Dogma.
The "again" implying that there was another time when he saved her, and I really don't think she saw her being mauled by the Dummy System as being saved.
Stupid typo on my part. Sorry! There was only the one time he saved her. Not that he didn't WANT to save her from the situation with dummy-controlled Eva-1 and Bardiel, he was just unable to do so and of course she wouldn't have known that being chomped up and all.
The punch was still a damn bitchy thing to do when he actually saved her this time around however.
Thanks for the point-out, Mariachi Man!
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Re: How do you feel about Asuka's treatment in Q?
SleepS wrote:I remember reading that a big point of disappointment in 2.0 was that Asuka's screen time was very limited, and some even felt that her character development was rather shallow. In retrospect, do Asuka fans (or for that matter, Asuka's detractors) feel that Anno's favorite character was better handled in 3.0? Do you embrace and furthermore, enjoy the differences between Soryu and Shikinami and they way she has progressed or because Rebuild seems to be very much Shinji's POV, have you accepted that Asuka (at least at this point in the game) won't have the same in depth character progression as her TV counterpart?
It's difficult to say whether Asuka was handled better in 3.0 in comparison to the series. I think with the amount of time we're given with her is lackluster, which could lead to a lesser developed character and how much of the Soryu character is revealed, but as the Shikinami character I think she is coming across in the way she is meant to with what ever purpose she has.
I do embrace this Shikinami character, and enjoy the slights of her personality in comparison to Soryu. When I look back at the first times I watched 2.0 I remember wishing that there was more of her story and hoping that 3.0 would have more of it... in whatever way they could. But like you said 3.0 is very much Shinji's PoV, so in some ways I was disappointed in that regard.
All in all, I wish she could have been more than what she is now on terms of development. I like who she is in the series but I mean COME ON!!! She needs her own movie, maybe that's what 4.0 will be.
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