DSS Choker

[Reichu]

I think it's "pseudo"-evolution because they're not "going forward" and changing into something new so much as returning to a previous form of existence. You'd think a "retro-" prefix would be more straightforward, but Anno has developed a massive boner for putting "pseudo" in front of everything.

[pwhodges]

Since an individual changing form is not actually evolution as it is defined, calling the change pseudo-evolution seems to me merely to acknowledge that the word itself is the wrong one to use.

[Monk Ed]

I always figured the term "pseudo" was being used to suggest that the evolution was only partial or incomplete, as others have apparently been taking it to mean. Doesn't Asuka or someone else say that Eva 13 has "surpassed its pseudo-evolved form"? Which I took to mean, it has finally achieved its true evolved form.

[one-eyed]

Since an individual changing form is not actually evolution as it is defined, calling the change pseudo-evolution seems to me merely to acknowledge that the word itself is the wrong one to use.

He could have used metamorphosis, it would be more correct.

I think it's "pseudo"-evolution because they're not "going forward" and changing into something new so much as returning to a previous form of existence. You'd think a "retro-" prefix would be more straightforward, but Anno has developed a massive boner for putting "pseudo" in front of everything.

The word should be atavism or the neologism involution or devolution, as you said, retro-evolution.
Anno should chosen pseudo because he felt cool. You must be right.

[Removal]

Returning to the topic at hand.......
Looking at the dialogue, I could see where it's possible that Wille finds it necessary to put Chokers on all pilots. Just look at Asuka's dialogue:

00:28:10 {Asuka} All this fuss over just one person.
00:28:12 {Asuka} In this world, we don't have the luxury of worrying about such things.
00:28:16 {Asuka} Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?

I detect a hint of bitterness in that line, as though Asuka is saying that Wille doesn't have the time to worry about the pilots individually anymore, so they are all under control by the DSS Chokers. I could be grabbing at straws here, but oh well, it's a thought.

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[Removal]

Any suggestions as to the significance of those lines then? They kinda stuck out to me as one of the more important pieces of dialogue watching this the first time through, but I still haven't been able to discern a meaning, really.

[Bryan]

I don't detect a hint of bitterness between them, but rather a comically huge amount. I have no idea why though.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Seele00TextOnly makes a good point. Also, Asuka was running around with Beast Mode. Even though that's clearly not the same as her unit "awakening," this seems to indicate that Wille isn't that concerned with Asuka abusing her Eva Unit. (Why they're not concerned might be another matter all together.)

I think the nail in the coffin as to whether or not other pilots also wear the DSS Choker is that Kaworu explains that it was built for him. I think Wille built a choker to place on the trigger to 4th Impact, and Kaworu was the only one who fit that description before they extracted Shinji from Unit 01. I have no idea how they would have planted it on Kaworu, though.

The fact that he specifies that the choker had only this one use indicates that non threats to 4th Impact, such as Asuka or Mari, would go without a choker.

Any suggestions as to the significance of those lines then? They kinda stuck out to me as one of the more important pieces of dialogue watching this the first time through, but I still haven't been able to discern a meaning, really.

"All that fuss over one person. In this world, we don't have the luxury of worrying about such things."

This line indicates that Asuka hates the fact that N3I seems to have killed or otherwise altered everyone else so that Shinji could save just one person. Seems like a poor trade off to her. The focus now is in humanity as a whole, and not the well-being of one individual.

The line "Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?" indicates that Misato was the one who informed her on all of these events that have transpired. It would make sense too, as Asuka would not have been conscious during N3I to have know what she's relaying to Shinji.

[Bryan]

The line "Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?" indicates that Misato was the one who informed her on all of these events that have transpired.

It would make sense if Misato told her exactly that she thinks they don't have the luxury of worrying about such things, but if she just told her what happened, I hardly see the need to mention who told her. Especially since it seems everyone on Wille knows.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

It would make sense if Misato told her exactly that she thinks they don't have the luxury of worrying about such things, but if she just told her what happened, I hardly see the need to mention who told her. Especially since it seems everyone on Wille knows.

It could also be an indicator of the relationship between Asuka and Misato. Asuka chose to talk with Msiato before the Unit 03 test just to chat. She doesn't know why, but she seemed to trust her more than she does the other characters. I see no reason why this trust shouldn't have grown since Asuka's recovery, especially since Nerv was willing to keep her as a "specimen."

[Bryan]

Trust can decay very quickly. 14 years is a long time for a little trust to decay. And we know something bad happened to her. She's 14 after 28 years of living because of what she calls the curse of eva and she's calling humans lillin. There's a lot to potentially blame Misato for, though we just don't know enough about what that could be yet. It just seemed like she had a lot of bitterness for her captain to me.

[bladerj]

The line "Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?" indicates that Misato was the one who informed her on all of these events that have transpired. It would make sense too, as Asuka would not have been conscious during N3I to have know what she's relaying to Shinji.

disagree its more subtle, throughout the series we always see ritsuko adressing Misato by her rank instead of name whenever she is reprimanding Misato to think of her duty and responsability like when she did the crazy catch angel plan, so the scene where Misato is worried about seeing the dss choker on Shinji, ritsuko uses the rank again to remind her of her position and leave feelings aside, Asuka does that same snark towards Misato in the quarentine pen

[Bagheera]

Since an individual changing form is not actually evolution as it is defined, calling the change pseudo-evolution seems to me merely to acknowledge that the word itself is the wrong one to use.

But note that only applies to evolution in the biological sense, and specifically in the context of natural selection and the origin of species. But the word was old long before Darwin penned his major theory; all it means is "change". Also note that evolution is not directional (you never suggested such, but others in the thread have) -- there is no such thing as "involution" or "devolution" or "retro-evolution", there's just evolution.

IMO they call is a pseudo-evolved form because it's an approximation -- the awakening is not complete, and the Adam is no longer what it was all those many years ago. Those beings we saw in the flashback to 2I are Adams in their proper evolved forms (perhaps labelled such because those are not their natural forms, and they cannot maintain them indefinitely?); what we see with Unit 01 and Unit 13 are faded callbacks, nothing more.

With that said I'd personally call it an ascended form, since it's pretty clearly an upgrade of some sort. "Evolved" in this context is so generic as to be nigh-meaningless.

I think the nail in the coffin as to whether or not other pilots also wear the DSS Choker is that Kaworu explains that it was built for him. I think Wille built a choker to place on the trigger to 4th Impact, and Kaworu was the only one who fit that description before they extracted Shinji from Unit 01. I have no idea how they would have planted it on Kaworu, though.

I'm surprised there's even discussion about this. Seems obvious to me that this is something Seele would have designed for him before sticking him in the Mark VI, and Wille adapted it for use with Shinji. They probably didn't bother doing the same with Mari and Asuka because they're piloting Evas that simply aren't capable of deification under any circumstances.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Trust can decay very quickly. 14 years is a long time for a little trust to decay. And we know something bad happened to her. She's 14 after 28 years of living because of what she calls the curse of eva and she's calling humans lillin. There's a lot to potentially blame Misato for, though we just don't know enough about what that could be yet. It just seemed like she had a lot of bitterness for her captain to me.

The scene before hand where she was happily receiving Misato's orders seems to contradict that idea. I mean, look at her taking orders:

SPOILER: Show

Look at her set eyebrows and excited smile. She's clearly not harboring any grudge against the giver of orders, Misato.

Now look at her when Shinji's present:

SPOILER: Show

She has a totally different attitude when she's around Shinji.

[ElMariachi]

That's off topic, but your second image made me notice that there is actually a moment in 3.0 when Asuka is actually smiling!
You should put it in the "Things you noticed thread", that something as noteworthy as Rei greeting the class in 2.0!

[pwhodges]

But note that only applies to evolution in the biological sense, and specifically in the context of natural selection and the origin of species. But the word was old long before Darwin penned his major theory; all it means is "change".

True - but elsewhere in Eva, when Seele talk of the evolution of mankind through instrumentality, we may be being expected to think of the biological sense (even thought it's still inappropriate).

[Elect G-Max]

Dead Sea Scrolls

Down, Strange, Strange

Now Deification shutdown System?

Dammit guys make up your minds.

[riffraff11235]

Dead Sea Scrolls

Down, Strange, Strange

Now Deification shutdown System?

Dammit guys make up your minds.

Wow, I didn't notice that. Not one, not two, but three instances of the DSS acronym?!

[ElMariachi]

From where does the "Down, Strange, Strange" comes from?