DSS Choker
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- Reichu
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I think it's "pseudo"-evolution because they're not "going forward" and changing into something new so much as returning to a previous form of existence. You'd think a "retro-" prefix would be more straightforward, but Anno has developed a massive boner for putting "pseudo" in front of everything.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
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- pwhodges
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Since an individual changing form is not actually evolution as it is defined, calling the change pseudo-evolution seems to me merely to acknowledge that the word itself is the wrong one to use.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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- Monk Ed
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I always figured the term "pseudo" was being used to suggest that the evolution was only partial or incomplete, as others have apparently been taking it to mean. Doesn't Asuka or someone else say that Eva 13 has "surpassed its pseudo-evolved form"? Which I took to mean, it has finally achieved its true evolved form.
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara
Since an individual changing form is not actually evolution as it is defined, calling the change pseudo-evolution seems to me merely to acknowledge that the word itself is the wrong one to use.
He could have used metamorphosis, it would be more correct.
I think it's "pseudo"-evolution because they're not "going forward" and changing into something new so much as returning to a previous form of existence. You'd think a "retro-" prefix would be more straightforward, but Anno has developed a massive boner for putting "pseudo" in front of everything.
The word should be atavism or the neologism involution or devolution, as you said, retro-evolution.
Anno should chosen pseudo because he felt cool. You must be right.
Returning to the topic at hand.......
Looking at the dialogue, I could see where it's possible that Wille finds it necessary to put Chokers on all pilots. Just look at Asuka's dialogue:
00:28:10 {Asuka} All this fuss over just one person.
00:28:12 {Asuka} In this world, we don't have the luxury of worrying about such things.
00:28:16 {Asuka} Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?
I detect a hint of bitterness in that line, as though Asuka is saying that Wille doesn't have the time to worry about the pilots individually anymore, so they are all under control by the DSS Chokers. I could be grabbing at straws here, but oh well, it's a thought.
Looking at the dialogue, I could see where it's possible that Wille finds it necessary to put Chokers on all pilots. Just look at Asuka's dialogue:
00:28:10 {Asuka} All this fuss over just one person.
00:28:12 {Asuka} In this world, we don't have the luxury of worrying about such things.
00:28:16 {Asuka} Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?
I detect a hint of bitterness in that line, as though Asuka is saying that Wille doesn't have the time to worry about the pilots individually anymore, so they are all under control by the DSS Chokers. I could be grabbing at straws here, but oh well, it's a thought.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
- Seele00TextOnly
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- FreakyFilmFan4ever
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Seele00TextOnly makes a good point. Also, Asuka was running around with Beast Mode. Even though that's clearly not the same as her unit "awakening," this seems to indicate that Wille isn't that concerned with Asuka abusing her Eva Unit. (Why they're not concerned might be another matter all together.)
I think the nail in the coffin as to whether or not other pilots also wear the DSS Choker is that Kaworu explains that it was built for him. I think Wille built a choker to place on the trigger to 4th Impact, and Kaworu was the only one who fit that description before they extracted Shinji from Unit 01. I have no idea how they would have planted it on Kaworu, though.
The fact that he specifies that the choker had only this one use indicates that non threats to 4th Impact, such as Asuka or Mari, would go without a choker.
"All that fuss over one person. In this world, we don't have the luxury of worrying about such things."
This line indicates that Asuka hates the fact that N3I seems to have killed or otherwise altered everyone else so that Shinji could save just one person. Seems like a poor trade off to her. The focus now is in humanity as a whole, and not the well-being of one individual.
The line "Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?" indicates that Misato was the one who informed her on all of these events that have transpired. It would make sense too, as Asuka would not have been conscious during N3I to have know what she's relaying to Shinji.
I think the nail in the coffin as to whether or not other pilots also wear the DSS Choker is that Kaworu explains that it was built for him. I think Wille built a choker to place on the trigger to 4th Impact, and Kaworu was the only one who fit that description before they extracted Shinji from Unit 01. I have no idea how they would have planted it on Kaworu, though.
The fact that he specifies that the choker had only this one use indicates that non threats to 4th Impact, such as Asuka or Mari, would go without a choker.
"All that fuss over one person. In this world, we don't have the luxury of worrying about such things."
This line indicates that Asuka hates the fact that N3I seems to have killed or otherwise altered everyone else so that Shinji could save just one person. Seems like a poor trade off to her. The focus now is in humanity as a whole, and not the well-being of one individual.
The line "Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?" indicates that Misato was the one who informed her on all of these events that have transpired. It would make sense too, as Asuka would not have been conscious during N3I to have know what she's relaying to Shinji.
- FreakyFilmFan4ever
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It could also be an indicator of the relationship between Asuka and Misato. Asuka chose to talk with Msiato before the Unit 03 test just to chat. She doesn't know why, but she seemed to trust her more than she does the other characters. I see no reason why this trust shouldn't have grown since Asuka's recovery, especially since Nerv was willing to keep her as a "specimen."
Trust can decay very quickly. 14 years is a long time for a little trust to decay. And we know something bad happened to her. She's 14 after 28 years of living because of what she calls the curse of eva and she's calling humans lillin. There's a lot to potentially blame Misato for, though we just don't know enough about what that could be yet. It just seemed like she had a lot of bitterness for her captain to me.
disagree its more subtle, throughout the series we always see ritsuko adressing Misato by her rank instead of name whenever she is reprimanding Misato to think of her duty and responsability like when she did the crazy catch angel plan, so the scene where Misato is worried about seeing the dss choker on Shinji, ritsuko uses the rank again to remind her of her position and leave feelings aside, Asuka does that same snark towards Misato in the quarentine pen
ANATA BAKA !?
But note that only applies to evolution in the biological sense, and specifically in the context of natural selection and the origin of species. But the word was old long before Darwin penned his major theory; all it means is "change". Also note that evolution is not directional (you never suggested such, but others in the thread have) -- there is no such thing as "involution" or "devolution" or "retro-evolution", there's just evolution.
IMO they call is a pseudo-evolved form because it's an approximation -- the awakening is not complete, and the Adam is no longer what it was all those many years ago. Those beings we saw in the flashback to 2I are Adams in their proper evolved forms (perhaps labelled such because those are not their natural forms, and they cannot maintain them indefinitely?); what we see with Unit 01 and Unit 13 are faded callbacks, nothing more.
With that said I'd personally call it an ascended form, since it's pretty clearly an upgrade of some sort. "Evolved" in this context is so generic as to be nigh-meaningless.
FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I think the nail in the coffin as to whether or not other pilots also wear the DSS Choker is that Kaworu explains that it was built for him. I think Wille built a choker to place on the trigger to 4th Impact, and Kaworu was the only one who fit that description before they extracted Shinji from Unit 01. I have no idea how they would have planted it on Kaworu, though.
I'm surprised there's even discussion about this. Seems obvious to me that this is something Seele would have designed for him before sticking him in the Mark VI, and Wille adapted it for use with Shinji. They probably didn't bother doing the same with Mari and Asuka because they're piloting Evas that simply aren't capable of deification under any circumstances.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
- FreakyFilmFan4ever
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Bryan wrote:Trust can decay very quickly. 14 years is a long time for a little trust to decay. And we know something bad happened to her. She's 14 after 28 years of living because of what she calls the curse of eva and she's calling humans lillin. There's a lot to potentially blame Misato for, though we just don't know enough about what that could be yet. It just seemed like she had a lot of bitterness for her captain to me.
The scene before hand where she was happily receiving Misato's orders seems to contradict that idea. I mean, look at her taking orders:
SPOILER: Show
Look at her set eyebrows and excited smile. She's clearly not harboring any grudge against the giver of orders, Misato.
Now look at her when Shinji's present:
SPOILER: Show
She has a totally different attitude when she's around Shinji.
- ElMariachi
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That's off topic, but your second image made me notice that there is actually a moment in 3.0 when Asuka is actually smiling!
You should put it in the "Things you noticed thread", that something as noteworthy as Rei greeting the class in 2.0!
You should put it in the "Things you noticed thread", that something as noteworthy as Rei greeting the class in 2.0!
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
- pwhodges
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True - but elsewhere in Eva, when Seele talk of the evolution of mankind through instrumentality, we may be being expected to think of the biological sense (even thought it's still inappropriate).
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
- Elect G-Max
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Dead Sea Scrolls
Down, Strange, Strange
Now Deification shutdown System?
Dammit guys make up your minds.
Down, Strange, Strange
Now Deification shutdown System?
Dammit guys make up your minds.
"Whatever the story or the development of the characters, I made them without a plan... We only started working on the next script once the previous one was done." - Anno, 1996
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"Sometimes, putting your toothbrush in its holder upside down can express your feelings towards life in general, your secret desire to commit suicide, the feelings for your long-lost mother that you never got to know, and your favorite color. But sometimes that toothbrush is simply a toothbrush." - Nuclear Lunchbox
- riffraff11235
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Wow, I didn't notice that. Not one, not two, but three instances of the DSS acronym?!
だから みんな 死んでしまえば いいのに... では, あなたは何故, ココにいるの? ...ココにいても, いいの?
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Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
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"Cogito ergo sum." - Rene Descartes
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
Avatar: Asuka is superior. That is all.
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- ElMariachi
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From where does the "Down, Strange, Strange" comes from?
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger
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