Is the Eva universe ruined for you?

[gorgeousshutin]

It puts them both in the tier of secondary works, owing their existence to the central source. No more than that.

Well, actually, a bit more than that, as it acknowledges that it's fun to write fanfics.

It's sad when there are fanfics out there that are actually "better" than Q despite being put out much earlier.

Story and characterization wise, The Second Try by Jimmy W is superior to Q on all levels - it even manages to present the "adult in teen's body" bit in a way that make way more sense than Q's contrived Eva's Curse.

That, and The Second Try is free entertainment while Q is not.

[Darkwing]

Not really ruined but i am kinda bummed that they ditched the lighhearted side of EVA in the rebuild films(most notably 3.0)

Evangelion is the first anime i really liked (well maybe Ghost in Shell too but never got into the whole anime fandom with it)

I found hilarious those scenes from NGE that really shine in terms of synergy between animation and voice acting,you know moments like in EP 8 after the big battle when Shinji and Asuka bicker over the phones, the expressions and voice acting really make me crack up.

But the dark side of EVA...you know after EP 20 and the End of Evangelion is depression zone for me....really hate when i find a new show to watch and it ends on a sad note, and now that they seem to focus exclusively on the dark side from 3.0 and on, really bummed about that.

I was hoping (i still hope) they anounce a new tv series in this new universe after all its said and done with 4.0.

Thats unless that Anno guy pulls another EOE :)

Yeah, the shift just utterly changes everything.

I'd use this analogy. Eva is like a new burger joint. You go their and you hear the burgers have a piece of canadian bacon on them, and you get cheese fries. It's different, but in a good way. Then for some reason suddenly it's fried Tofu and grilled eels. Not what you came for, not what you wanted. So you get mad and leave. Years later you hear that they've gone back to actually serving the burgers and fries. So you check it out. And it's even better than before. Then right as you let your guard down the damn tofu and eels are back. Basicly it's a case of fool me once, fool me twice. Goddamn that was rambling.

But for a lot of people I know in real life one of the big attractions of Rebuild was the chance for the charecters to actually earn a happy ending. That and less brain episodes.

[Bagheera]

Story and characterization wise, The Second Try by Jimmy W is superior to Q on all levels - it even manages to present the "adult in teen's body" bit in a way that make way more sense than Q's contrived Eva's Curse.

Not to knock it (since I enjoyed it immensely and think Aki is the cutest thing in the history of forever), but no, it's not. It essentially handwaves all of the pilots' problems and presents no consequences whatsoever for their actions prior to and during EoE. It also invokes time travel (bad) and ignores the fact that other people can come back from the LCL sea if they so choose. All of these factors are pretty serious strikes against it as a serious work. It's a fine fanfic, mind, but the NTE's doing a lot more on all sorts of different levels than it ever did.

(this should not be taken as an endorsement of the NTE by any means; I'm still equivocal about it on many fronts and don't expect that to change soon. But your above comment ignores the reality of the situation and as such is something I can't take seriously no matter my ultimate opinion of the new movies).

[CJD]

But unlike fic writers entertaining fans for free, Anno is charging money from fans, who're paying ticket fares with expectations of him having done a reasonably good job.

I think he did a reasonably good job with the first two movies, and my official opinion on the third is undecided until I see it. Protip: Taste is subjective. Just because you don't like NME doesn't mean Anno is committing some despicable moral crime by creating, releasing, and charging for it, nor is he doing irreparable damage to the anime industry in the process.

[Mr. Tines]

I'd use this analogy. Eva is like a new burger joint.

Reminds me of this.

one of the big attractions of Rebuild was the chance for the charecters to actually earn a happy ending.

They had that in the TV series. It only gets worse from then on.

[IDontWantNoScrub]

When I became a fan of Neon Genesis Evangelion the two Rebuild movies were already out so for me Rebuild = more adventures with these characters = good. The characters and the mystery was what I liked about the series, I didn't particularly enjoy the ending (though I respect it). With Rebuild I'm getting more of what I liked and perhaps an alternative to what I did not like. In my mind both the series and the new films can co-exist and one isn't more...canon than the other.

[Ironfoot]

The fact that I've watched the 6 min + opening subbed, where Asuka and Mari still exude brattish little girl mannerism despite their now being 28 and surviving a supposedly hellish world, do point at crap/unrealistic characterization on the part of 3.0. Unless they state somewhere that both Asuka and Mari were in some 14 yr comma just like Shinji, portraying them with little/null mental-emotional growth when they've supposedly spent 14 hellish years post 3I - and are already 28 - ain't gonna fly with me.

Whatever it takes to make your penis worship them, that's the impression I got. The fact that they still act this way after 14 years considering the possible mental development they could have gone through (curse of eva or not) can only be explained as a marketing ploy. It can't be anything else, and it's amazing how many are in denial over this. Rabid fans have excuses for anything though, and saying that to a swarm of them could be considered unwise.

[gorgeousshutin]

Protip: Taste is subjective. Just because you don't like NME doesn't mean Anno is committing some despicable moral crime by creating

Indeed.

The translation thread has by now given away the (almost) complete plot of Q. There's

SPOILER: Show

1)Asuka (and Mari) still emotionally immature after 14 yr time skip, and do not interact with Shinji (or others) via mannerisms befitting of an adult
2)Unexplained "Curse of Eva" that conveniently kept Asuka a 14 yr old in body, instead of when she started training at a much younger age (5-ish)
3) Evas that no longer seem to require a specific pre-absorbed human soul to synch with a specific pilot
4)Misato, who would not talk in detail with Shinji, sees the boy as being dangerous enough to warrant a choker bomb, but still failed in having him slip out of her control despite the backing of the entire Wille by her side when it happened
5) Kaworu, fully capable of taking the choke bomb off Shinji, but then wears the item himself instead of disposing of it like any thinking being would do.

I know there are those who know the above and still are passionately insisting that Q is a masterpiece. Good for them I guess, but count me out of that ship.

[chaosakita]

Whatever it takes to make your penis worship them, that's the impression I got. The fact that they still act this way after 14 years considering the possible mental development they could have gone through (curse of eva or not) can only be explained as a marketing ploy. It can't be anything else, and it's amazing how many are in denial over this. Rabid fans have excuses for anything though, and saying that to a swarm of them could be considered unwise.

The thing is that I could buy Asuka and Mari having very stylized 28-year-old bodies, until the "Curse of Eva" was revealed to me. The Curse of Eva is really inexcusable to me.

From what I've read on 3.0, it seems like it will be really disappointing to me. Yes, I've read "wow, super cool giant robots like Anima" and "lol Anno is a troll; you're taking it too seriously." But it feels like a huge slap in the face to someone who was a huge fan of the first two Rebuild movies and Evangelion. I loved Rebuild because it was a new take on Evangelion, but 3.0 looks nothing like the Eva I know and love. It has Kaworu though, so I'm probably going to give it a pass because of that.

And having tons of dropped points in a movie series less than six hours long: terrible. Let's hope that 4.0 can wrap everything up adequately.

[Bagheera]

Indeed.

The translation thread has by now given away the (almost) complete plot of Q. There's

In order:

1. AFAICT neither Asuka nor Mari behave in particularly childish fashion at any point in the movie.
2. We don't know when Asuka started piloting in actual Evas; it's entirely possible that her battle with Clockiel was her first sortie in an actual Eva vs. in a simulator plug.
3. We haven't had evidence of souls in Evas since 1.xx. You can't call it a plot hole or whatever if it was never set up or even referenced in the first place.
4. Rei got Shinji via a blitz attack, in a Eva specifically designed for the task. No wonder she might have a good shot at it.
5. This one's a fair point.

Can't really see hanging a bunch of hate on the movie for one out of five, sorry.

(which, again, does not mean I'm an advocate for Q; it just seems like you're trying to justify hate for the movie rather than addressing legitimate issues with it, which doesn't make for a compelling argument.)

[gorgeousshutin]

chaosakita wrote:
The thing is that I could buy Asuka and Mari having very stylized 28-year-old bodies, until the "Curse of Eva" was revealed to me. The Curse of Eva is really inexcusable to me.

You're not alone.

Bagheera wrote:
1. AFAICT neither Asuka nor Mari behave in particularly childish fashion at any point in the movie.
2. We don't know when Asuka started piloting in actual Evas; it's entirely possible that her battle with Clockiel was her first sortie in an actual Eva vs. in a simulator plug.
3. We haven't had evidence of souls in Evas since 1.xx. You can't call it a plot hole or whatever if it was never set up or even referenced in the first place.
4. Rei got Shinji via a blitz attack, in a Eva specifically designed for the task. No wonder she might have a good shot at it.
5. This one's a fair point.

1. I stressed "mannerism" in my wording. The hyper girly mannerism and bickering between A and M we see in the first 6 min subbed preview (where they're doing something quite difficult in a serious setting) spelled doom for me. And her dialogues with awakened Shinji do not read mature to me. If she's 28 in mind, wouldn't she see Shinji as the child he is and act accordingly, instead of acting like a bratty child towards the child?
2. Is it? Then Rebuild Asuka's pride in her being the best eva pilot will be much less founded than it was in NGE
3. Then Shinji's line in 2.0 saying his Eva smells like Ayanami (Yui) will be pointless.
4. I find the "Eva specifically designed for that" trick too convenient. Next thing we know, there could be a Eva specially designed for time travel so none of Rebuild has ever happened in the first place.
5. As this one ties in with the supposedly dramatic climax/ending of Q, it is inexcusable bad storytelling flawing the entire film.

I know we all got different tastes, but is well-fleshed characters and the absence of plot holes - at least during crucial parts of the story - too much to ask for in a film bearing the name Eva?

[LiLi]

Not ruined. I'm -ing it.

Can't wait to see Q again.

[Jadley]

They should rename the thread title to "Come to Q.Q about Q."
(as far as i've read about the movie, i have not encountered yet a single thing that will make me hate it, the only thing that i can possible hate is the fact that im gonna have to wait another couple o' years to watch final).

[Shakabutt]

Btw do Asuka and Mari act more mature or not ? From the bits i gathered from the spoilers and a interview with her VA, i got that indeed shes taken the step to adulthood (fanwank eva curse or not).

Now you guys say shes immature in the way she relates ?

Who is right ?

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[LiLi]

Eh? Was Q really largely expected to be a Happier Lighter Eva?

Personally, I think I like the somewhat "darker" turn Q might be said to have taken.

I guess I might have even liked it to delve deeper into the darkness and the abyss of wtf-ery.

Maybe I am just desensitized.

Make me cry manly tears, Anno!

[Bagheera]

I know we all got different tastes, but is well-fleshed characters and the absence of plot holes - at least during crucial parts of the story - too much to ask for in a film bearing the name Eva?

We have both. They don't go away just because you say they do.

(I'd go point by point on the rest, but it's meaningless. As I said, this reads like you're justifying hate rather than pointing out legitimate criticisms of the film. And I say that as someone who has some serious criticisms of his own to speak of!)

[Reichu]

Eh? Was Q really largely expected to be a Happier Lighter Eva?

"Rebuild" in general as "lighter, happier Eva made by a wiser, happier, married, etc. Anno" is a very common fan-meme. This attitude is pretty much embodied by tvtropes' (still-current!) write-up, for example:

SPOILER: Show

In 1995, Hideaki Anno — fresh out of rehabilitation caused by problems during the production of Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water — started work on what started out as a mecha otaku's dream show. Following his increasing disappointment in (and hatred for) the otaku community, as well as issues in his personal life and Gainax's financial troubles, Anno transformed the show into the brutal and depressing deconstruction of the Super Robot Genre (and many common anime tropes) known as Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Fast forward to 2007: Happily Married and as rich (and respected) as Steven Spielberg, Anno decides to revisit the most popular and influential anime franchise of the past decade — but without the depression influencing the story. Anno makes plans to re-tell the story of the Evangelion saga by giving his Byronic Hero cast a second chance (literally or figuratively), making them somewhat more emotionally stable, and giving them hope and light at the end of the tunnel. (He also snags a massive theatrical budget to help his plan become a reality.)

Thus begins the salvation of Shinji Ikari, Rei Ayanami, and Asuka Langley Shikinami in the four-film saga known as Rebuild of Evangelion, directed by Kazuya Tsurumaki of FLCL fame. Half of the saga has already come out; the third film premiered (in Japan) on 17 November 2012, and the final film will premiere in 2013.

[chaosakita]

This attitude is pretty much embodied by tvtropes' (still-current!) write-up

God forbid someone doesn't change a wiki page within two weeks of a foreign, largely non-translated film coming out.

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

They should rename the thread title to "Come to Q.Q about Q."

This is in the running for one of the most clever things ever written on EGF.