AAA Wunder

[Reichu]

Couldn't an angel core be considered an Adam's vessel? Meaning an Adam's soul could be stored in it since it has an adamic nature? What I mean is he could be the 11th angel's core disembodied and reshaped into Eva form, hence the line "the whole thing is a core".

Why beat around the bush with the phrasing "Adams' Vessel"? They don't use that for the 12th Angel, although the phrasing "whole thing is a core" is repeated there. If Mark.09 had anything to do with the 11th Angel, I suspect we would have found out about it similarly to how we learned about the 12th Angel being inside Mark.06.

[A.T. Fish]

Why beat around the bush with the phrasing "Adams' Vessel"? They don't use that for the 12th Angel, although the phrasing "whole thing is a core" is repeated there. If Mark.09 had anything to do with the 11th Angel, I suspect we would have found out about it similarly to how we learned about the 12th Angel being inside Mark.06.

Who knows, maybe whatever Nerv had to do to turn the thing into an Eva somehow concealed its angelic nature, or maybe Wille was aware of the existence of Mark.09 and that it was no longer an angel and so didn't label it as such, choosing a fancier title for it. In the case of the 12th inside Mark.06, they were clearly surprised to see it still existed so they named it the way they used to name it before, the 12th angel. This is just a lot of guessing going too far but whatever, it's a theory for posterity, in the future we'll laugh at how wrong all our theories were when Anno trolls us in Final.

[Mbryo]

Wait, concerning the line about Mark.09 trying to take control of the ship back from Eva 01, does it imply that Eva 01 (and Yui/Rei soul inside the Eva) was actually controlling the ship rather than just serving as the power supply? And does it also imply that 09 was in control of the ship at some point in the past?

[Seele00TextOnly]

...

[Reichu]

Mbryo:

01:20:46 {Ritsuko} The Adams' Vessel... Wunder's original master!
01:20:48 {Ritsuko} It intends to take the ship's controls back from Eva-01!

Eva-01 is indeed implied here to serve as more than the Wunder's power supply. Though clearly the crew tell the ship what to do, so this probably isn't "control" as we're inclined to think of it. The word is 制御 (seigyo), same as used earlier by Fuyutsuki when talking about Yui becoming Eva-01's "control system". So from that, I'm guessing that Eva-01 somehow enables Misato and her crew to control Wunder (flashbacks of Gurren Lagann mecha-inside-a-mecha, there) in the same way that Yui enables Shinji to control Eva-01. However, I'd also guess that there exists the risk of the "control system" becoming the actual "controller".

And Mark.09 is implied twice over ("original master" and "take back") to have been in charge of Wunder in the past. There's some interesting speculation about this earlier in the thread (start around page 2).

(EDIT: Ninja'd by Seele.)

[Shinoyami65]

Gendo sure was able to move fast in getting Shinji back. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a mole in the organization. Now the question is will it be the obvious one, Ritsuko, or someone else.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ritsuko, but since we know very little a about the other members of Wille it could be any of them.

I wonder if Gendo aactually believes that the Wunder will pose a threat to him. After all, if he has a mole in the organisation, he could have found out its weakpoints or had it destroyed from the inside before it could be completed. Even if he doesn't have a mole on the inside, he could have had Mark.09 and Eva-13 destroy it if he needed to. He doesn't really seem to pay Wille much heed at all in the movie.

Is there any reason why Misato doesn't just get the Wunder to fly down the shaft to Lilith and shoot the crap out of everything? If she really was determined to stop Shinji from initiating 4I, shouldn't she have used all of the force available to her, instead of relying on Unit-02 and Unit-08?

[Reichu]

Is there any reason why Misato doesn't just get the Wunder to fly down the shaft to Lilith and shoot the crap out of everything?

I don't think Wunder would fit in the Main Shaft...

[Shinoyami65]

I don't think Wunder would fit in the Main Shaft...

Hmm... true. Does it turn up to collect Unit-08 after Near 4I?

[Alpha]

Unit-08 falls to the side of the shaft, not into it, so it's in the earth's surface

[Shinoyami65]

Unit-08 falls to the side of the shaft, not into it, so it's in the earth's surface

Really. Well, I was just wondering if we get to see more of the Wunder outside of interior shots and the battle with Mark. 09 and the Nemesis Series.

[Darkwing]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Ritsuko, but since we know very little a about the other members of Wille it could be any of them.

I wonder if Gendo aactually believes that the Wunder will pose a threat to him. After all, if he has a mole in the organisation, he could have found out its weakpoints or had it destroyed from the inside before it could be completed. Even if he doesn't have a mole on the inside, he could have had Mark.09 and Eva-13 destroy it if he needed to. He doesn't really seem to pay Wille much heed at all in the movie.

Is there any reason why Misato doesn't just get the Wunder to fly down the shaft to Lilith and shoot the crap out of everything? If she really was determined to stop Shinji from initiating 4I, shouldn't she have used all of the force available to her, instead of relying on Unit-02 and Unit-08?

Because Gendo knows that the only flying battleships that can actually acomplish anything at the climax are the Yamato, Gotengo/Atragon and Macross. All others have to be bailed out by the smaller units they launch.

Now in Final is the Wunder going to go down before Shinji pulls Unit-01 out, or because Shinji pulls Unit-01 out?

[Kendrix]

Hmm... true. Does it turn up to collect Unit-08 after Near 4I?

UNIT 08 is shown to have been recovered, but armless, together with a few mangled scraps from EVA 02.

Presumably, they also recovered Mari from her unit, assuming she didn't eject. The middle parts of it look intact enough...

[Reichu]

UNIT 08 is shown to have been recovered, but armless

There's a clear shot of the two near the end of the film. Eva-02 is reduced to remains (a crushed head and a mangled upper torso), while Eva-08 is basically intact except for the injured arms.

Now in Final is the Wunder going to go down before Shinji pulls Unit-01 out, or because Shinji pulls Unit-01 out?

Why does it have to be just the two choices?

[Eliaskar]

Just had a thought, is Mari on the Wunder by the end? I could have sworn she crash landed on the ground, meaning she shouldn't have been recovered (Asuka and the other's weren't) and so she should be walking with Shinji, Asuka and Rei.

It would have made the ending look more "complete" with all the remaining pilots (apart from Rei II) together.

[Reichu]

Just had a thought, is Mari on the Wunder by the end?

Mari was never shown ejecting the plug, so presumably she was brought back onboard the Wunder along with Eva-08. Asuka apparently landed in an area where the "L Barrier's density" was too strong to permit Wille to recover her and her plug.

[Eliaskar]

Mari was never shown ejecting the plug, so presumably she was brought back onboard the Wunder along with Eva-08. Asuka apparently landed in an area where the "L Barrier's density" was too strong to permit Wille to recover her and her plug.

Ah yes, that would make sense then.

Do we have any idea yet of what the "L Barrier" is?

[Rawinder]

Ah yes, that would make sense then.

Do we have any idea yet of what the "L Barrier" is?

Lilith Barrier was the first thing that came to mind; reminded me of how her AT Field in episode 24 shut out everything.

Of course, Lilith being a dead pile of blood at this point probably nixes that idea.

[slothen]

Lilith Barrier was the first thing that came to mind; reminded me of how her AT Field in episode 24 shut out everything.

Of course, Lilith being a dead pile of blood at this point probably nixes that idea.

Perhaps its the Lilin barrier? This would make sense if you subscribe to the idea that the eva pilots, Gendo, and Fuyu are now special chosen non-human people, and Nerv is completely devoid of personnel or (apparently) any secondary defense.

[Shinoyami65]

Lilith Barrier was the first thing that came to mind; reminded me of how her AT Field in episode 24 shut out everything.

Of course, Lilith being a dead pile of blood at this point probably nixes that idea.

Well in Episode 24 it was Rei who generated Lilith's monstruous A.T. Field, having her soul, but since ReiQ is somehow different from Poka-Poka Rei in terms of her soul's "placement", I doubt it's her generating the barrier. And Asuka would probably kill Rei if it was her generating the A.T. Field anyway.

Getting back on topic, Wunder does try to attack eva-13 near the end of the film, ramming it and shooting it point-black with its cannons, but the Mark.09 stops it and damages it with cross-shaped explosions. The mark.09 then stands on the Wunder's wing and its legs become a blue Bardiel-like substance, which infiltrates the Wunder and begins to take over its systems. This takeover is stopped by Eva-02.

[andreh]

And what happened to the MAGI computers?
Wunder is operated by them or it uses a new control system? The bridge is very much like an entry plug ... Very strange...