Impact Mechanics

[Darkwing]

Well, Kaworu says something like "Mass extinctions aren't unusual on this planet..." when explaining the situation to Shinji.

So Angels killed the Dinosaurs?

[Kendrix]

Lol who knows?

but what this certainly implies is that Shinji inadvertedly made most of the ecosystem say bye-bye.
(Makes the whole aquarium scene suddenly very painful in hindsight. If seeing Kaji, Kensuke, Touji or Rei II alive, happy, and interacting with Shinji won't make you bawl, the thought that none of this got restored/ all those efforts were for naught/ the world just got even MORE screwed-up will. )

[Mr. Tines]

"Mass extinctions aren't unusual on this planet..."

Though this time Shinji managed it without even dropping any litter!

Dispose of your unwanted materials thoughtfully!  SPOILER: Show

[pwhodges]

It seems to be becoming clear to me that the start of an Impact (3I and 4I) comes when an Eva "awakens"; which in turn seems to require Shinji's presence, but not his will. But what causes that awakening to happen when it does? And if the awakening is the thing, then what had pulling the spears (whichever they were) out of Lilith got to do with 4I anyway?

Oh, and 2I happened before there any Evas at all, so their awakening can't have been a trigger in that case.

Confused...

[AuraTwilight]

Evas are clones of Adam, and he awakened at 2I, soooo there's that.

[Kendrix]

There are obviously various different recipies with different results, as in the original series.

But from Ritsuko's dialogue, it seems that the main cause for the near TI really was mostly the awakening.

[Reichu]

I've noticed that speculation about NME's Impact mechanics is overwhelmingly bogged down by fans assuming things that were true in NGE are still true, and this is a huge mistake. NME isn't playing with the all the same pieces, and the rules that govern their relationships and behavior are different. That out of the way...

NME still has a lid sealed tight on what exactly happened during Second Impact, and knowing more about that is pretty much the key to everything, since the movies phrase Third Impact as a continuation (tsuzuki) of Second, and Fourth, in turn, as a continuation of Third. But I guess we'll just have to make do for the time being.

I'll try to throw some observations together later.

Evas are clones of Adam, and he awakened at 2I, soooo there's that.

Wrong continuity, Aura.

[Darkwing]

Yeah, things are different. We have more Adams and more lances this time for starters. Considering we see them in Misato's flashback, the Adams are clearly involved in 2I, but we don't know what happened yet.

Shinji's been used for two impacts, but I don't think he's neccisary for all of them. I assume that if your using Unit-01 you'd need him because of his link to Yui. For Unit-13, it was because they needed two pilots to do a spear impact, and Asuka and Mari sure as hell weren't going to do it.

[Xous]

I believe this would be the best place to bring this up, but please correct me if I'm wrong (or if this has been addressed already - I don't recall seeing it earlier in the thread).

Could there be any significance in the visual difference between Near Third Impact and the Fourth Impact seen in Q? The giant rings (called a "vortex" on the Wiki) that appear above Unit-01 in Near Third Impact are all red, black, and white. (See the image in the first post of the thread.) From the little I've seen in the camrip of Q, the rings that appear above Unit-13 during Fourth Impact are similar to the ones that are seen over the South Pole from Second Impact - red, black, and white with different (rainbow) colored rings toward the center.

The Unit initiating the Impacts vary, so is it possible the differences between the Units created two different "types" of Impacts? In Unit-01's case it grew wings of light and the vortex lacked the rainbow rings. In Unit-13's case it didn't have the wings of light (as far as I could tell - it's possible the camrip didn't show them or maybe the Unit was stopped before it could grow them) and the vortex resembled the one created by Second Impact.

Perhaps Unit-01's Impact was somehow "incomplete" (as it seems to have needed to absorb the 10th Angel's core/whatever to initiate it), or maybe 13's is the type of Impact created when Spears are involved (assuming they were in Second Impact)? There are so many differences between what triggers the Impacts that I can't imagine the visual differences were simply aesthetic choices. Although we don't know what each Eva is made from, perhaps one Impact type is an "Adams"-Type and the other (Unit-01's, I'd assume) is a Lilith-Type?

If the Impacts are truly continuations of each other, then I would imagine they'd have the same qualities, so perhaps the visual differences really aren't important and don't denote them being of a different type. Thoughts?

[Reichu]

"Vortex" isn't an official term; it was just used because it seemed like people would know what was being referred to. Officially speaking, the "big gateway in the sky" appears to be the Door of Guf*, though being the lazy and easily distracted person I am, that's not in the Wiki yet...

Here's a crummy pic of the 4I DoG that Xous is referring to:



Another aesthetic difference with 3I is that here, there is clearly something lying beyond the open Door...

Perhaps Unit-01's Impact was somehow "incomplete" (as it seems to have needed to absorb the 10th Angel's core/whatever to initiate it)

It's impossible to see in the camrip unless you know what you're looking for, but Eva-13 does a bit of absorbing pre-Impact, as well. Once Kaworu is "cast down" to the 13th Angel, some weird stuff starts happening...

- Eva-13's pylons pop off
- Long, red, pylon-like appendages start growing in their place
- (Cut away to Seele's Farewell)
- Its eyes swell up and its jaws open
- The red parts of the armor start to glow
- The 12th Angel / Lilith Goo conglomeration is concentrated into the Eva's open mouth.
- The Eva bites down (cue rainbow)...
- ...and immediately pseudo-evolves/Awakens into a Radiant Giant.

*(No vulva palms for us this time...)

Although we don't know what each Eva is made from, perhaps one Impact type is an "Adams"-Type and the other (Unit-01's, I'd assume) is a Lilith-Type?

At the moment, "Spear involvement" seems like a safer guess. As you note, we don't know if Eva-01 is Lilith-based this time around (and especially can't be taken for granted given how they've visually identified Eva-01 with one of the Adams). And Eva-13 appears to absorb Lilith's remains, giving Fourth Impact a Lilith involvement that can't be said (based on our current level of knowledge) to hold true for 2I.

[Clover]

Reminds me of FMA. Maybe it's God.

[Xous]

It's impossible to see in the camrip unless you know what you're looking for, but Eva-13 does a bit of absorbing pre-Impact, as well.

Agh, I completely forgot about that part. xD And I forgot about the white object / light beyond the Door... Aside from the fact on the surface it looks like a solar eclipse with some kind of X-shaped object between it and the Eva, I can't tell what it's supposed to be... Though it does remind me of the black crosses and circle shape / moon from the animation of Second Impact. One Eva = one black cross instead of four this time around? (Though for the cross to look like that in front of the "eclipse" it would have to be lying parallel with the Earth instead of sticking straight up out of it, no?)

[CJD]

Reminds me of FMA. Maybe it's God.

And FMA reminded me of Eva. We've gone full circle now.

[Alpha]

Another aesthetic difference with 3I is that here, there is clearly something lying beyond the open Door...

That thing behind the Door reminds me the cross flashing across the tittle of the original anime

SPOILER: Show

[Mbryo]

One thing I do not understand is why Mark.06 descended to Terminal Dogma. If Eva 01 was the sole cause of the Third Impact, then why did 06 need to do that after it effectively brought down Unit 01 with the lance? Did the near-third impact trigger Lilith to awaken? Because Lilith seems to have broken free of her cross, and Terminal Dogma itself is in a pretty bizarre state.........................And why did Mark.06 pierce itself with the Lance? Kaworu mentioned that 06 was re-designed so that it did not require a pilot to operate............

And was the Key of Nebuchadnezzar involved in these impacts?

And it's kind of unrelated but the Third angel was stripped of flesh for research...................Perhaps instead of the Adams, the Third Angel was the basis for the Evas............ In other words the Evas (excluding 01, 06, 09 and 13) are perhaps clones of the Third Angel?

[Reichu]

My guess is that what happened in Central Dogma was unrelated to Third Impact. In order for Mark.06 to be modified and sent down there unmanned, some time must have passed (albeit not a whole lot, because we're told that Central Dogma has been sealed off for fourteen years). The best my brain can come up with at the moment is that:

The 12th Angel reached Lilith, and initiated contact. The result was that Lilith was "reactivated"; her body regenerated (regrew its lower half) and began to swell in size (sort of like in EoE). However, this was a trap. Mark.06 had been in waiting, and beheaded Lilith and implanted itself into the neck stub, absorbed the Angel into its own body, and skewered both Lilith and itself with the Spears.

The Lilith head was transported away from the body as an extra precaution (and became Rei-looking... I don't know how). A seal was placed over Central Dogma. And the waiting began.

I suspect Gendo still has the Key tucked away for the time when he intends to enact his final plans. So far, it seems that everything has been build-up.

[Hyper Shinchan]

About Lilith, we see her for some instants during Ha's ending, doesn't this imply that something related to Lilith happened during Near Third Impact?
Reichu's theory is quite suggestive though.

And it's kind of unrelated but the Third angel was stripped of flesh for research...................Perhaps instead of the Adams, the Third Angel was the basis for the Evas............ In other words the Evas (excluding 01, 06, 09 and 13) are perhaps clones of the Third Angel?

I'm more prone to believe that the 3rd Angel could be related to the Nemesis Series, maybe they actually learnt something from it but it was deleted from the official records.

[Reichu]

About Lilith, we see her for some instants during Ha's ending, doesn't this imply that something related to Lilith happened during Near Third Impact?

I've heard a few suggestions, and it's impossible to pick between them with the limited information we have.

One that I kind of like (that originated before 3.0 came out) is that we're shown Lilith to remind us that she's down there, and highlight the fact that an Impact is happening without her involvement. (Implied Gendo / Seele conflict.) I might not be paraphrasing it quite right.

[Kendrix]

Reminds me of FMA. Maybe it's God.

I never noticed there was something beyond the vortex. I find that suddenly very creepy.

It looks like an eclipsed sun.

[Jinroh]

There's something I'm still wondering though. Did Gendo initiate 4th impact (knowing it would once again fail) only to trick Seele into thinking the plan is finally achieved, allowing him to effectively terminate them as well as their organisation?

It gives him free reign to enact his own plan.