Impact Mechanics

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Brutalman » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:41 am

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:Aww, Shit, Gendo's plan is to turn eveyone into Yuis.


Gendo: "Once everyone else is turned into Yui I'll have a harem of billions of the perfect woman!"

Fuyutsuki: "Once everyone else is turned into Yui I'm certain to get lucky with at least one of them! Maybe. Call it a fifty-fifty chance."
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Postby Reichu » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:51 am

View Original PostKnifeEyeAttack wrote:I'm more interested in the fact that the "white giant" seems not to be a headless Lilith, but in fact more resembling a headless Shinji...

Kaworu says that the white giant in Central Dogma is Lilith's corpse.

Not really sure what to make of all the rest. The movie's imagery is apparently so confusing you can't really believe anything you hear unless at least one other person confirms it.
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Postby CJD » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:11 am

Yea, considering not a single other person who's seen the movie has mentioned any of that I'm gonna write that one off, at least until we hear some confirmation.

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Postby qu4d » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:33 am

View Original PostCJD wrote:@qu4d: What am I looking at here?


The beginning of 1.11 where you can see them entering the egg/black moon (speculation!) for a very brief moment.

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Postby Eliaskar » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:46 am

What i'm guessing then is, is that after Second Impact (We still don't know the details for what happened in Rebuilds 2I), Kaworu was what was left of the original Adam and then the creatures it made in its own image, like what Unit-01 did, are what the Adams are.

Wouldn't explain the four lances we see during the 2I flashback scene in 2.22 though.

This is even more confusing than ever.
Last edited by Eliaskar on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Charsi » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:25 pm

Okay so i'm just gonna write Koaru as K, because I can never get the name spelling right....

In 1.11 isn't there a shot of K waking up in a coffin on the moon? Aren't all the coffins to either side the same size? Is it possible all the angels are controlled/motivated by a K clone? That would kind of explain why once Eva 06 reactivates, K "becomes" the next angel... a long line of K clones have already been angels, he's just next in line and his Angel happened to be an Adam-based Eva. Build Angel, add K, stir.

What if K is to an Angel what a Lilim is to Eva? And at the earliest, least evolved form, both appear essentially human.

If Eva 01 is a Lilith-based "transcendent" lifeform it might explain why, when humans "transcend" (such as being involved in a near-impact event) they transform into what looks like Unit 01's reaching upwards... they were on their way to becoming a new thing. Unit 01 is in this scheme an evolved creature being whose evolution is arrested, but that breaks its bonds at the end of Rebuild 2. It seems to fit.

So..

1. lilim
[evolution]
2. evangelion
[evolution/transcendence]
3. new thing

...?

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Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:05 am

Hold on, I've got something from our dear old Wiki...

Image

I totally forgot this : in the old show, the shaft heading downwards to Terminal Dogma was helical.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:34 am

Whoa... Great catch, Ursus. I don't think I ever noticed that at all! :hangs head in shame:

So perhaps there's a bolt-like structure embedded inside the Black Moon, containing the main shaft and NME!Central Dogma, and this massive structure is... uh... "rotationally excavated" during Fourth Impact?

At least from the picture we have, its surface doesn't seem to match up with the overtly Black Moon-looking thing Misato and Shinji are heading into in 1.11, but that could just be due to scale and lighting...

Image

vs.

Image

More importantly, if the giant bolt was supposed to be the Geofront / BM-equivalent in its entirety... shouldn't it have a hole on the very top? We see in 2.0 that Eva-02 blows right through the Geofront's cap.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:48 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:-- The deal with 3I seems to be a bait and switch. In Break we're told it's "near-3I", but in Q it seems clear it was 3I. If it wasn't, why call the next event 4I? If it's near-3I because it didn't run to its conclusion why isn't 2I called "near-2I"? Naturally Anno probably didn't know he was going this route while making Break, but I still feel like the whole thing is a bit of a retcon in some pretty significant ways.

"Third Impact" is just short-hand:

00:51:48 Ikari Shinji-kun, once Awakened, Eva-01 became the trigger for Third Impact and opened the Door of Guf.
00:51:58 Lilin call it Near Third Impact. It was all initiated by you.

(Why do you always call the second film "Break"? If you're going to use "Q", then say "Ha" or something. If you're going to use "Break", then say "Quickening". Right?)
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Postby UrsusArctos » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:53 pm

The wikipedia article on Gaf has some weird stuff about birds, trees, and the Messiah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guf

Nothing on giant drills/screws in there, of course, but that might explain the weird trees underground. Just what did Kaworu stop when he sealed the Door of Gaf, I wonder?
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Postby Reichu » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:16 pm

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Just what did Kaworu stop when he sealed the Door of Gaf, I wonder?

It did seem to result in a lot of giant red stillborns, if nothing else.

(And... Guf. GUF!!!)
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Postby duo_rei » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:42 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Kaworu says that the white giant in Central Dogma is Lilith's corpse.

Not really sure what to make of all the rest. The movie's imagery is apparently so confusing you can't really believe anything you hear unless at least one other person confirms it.


What I saw was more like this:
http://wiki.evageeks.org/File:Full-op_C234_adam-spear.jpg

Or rather something almost identical with Mark 6 on its back lol Impossible to tell if it was a giant Shinji corpse tho because it was headless and all...

But yeah everything in Q (except for the slow Shinji-Kaworu moments) just keeps firing at you non-stop darn it! I wish I could have a giant theatre remote control or something haha....

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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:19 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:(And... Guf. GUF!!!)


Sorry for the gaffe, Guf it is.

Gawd, I just remembered there's already a giant steel bird in the action (the Wunder). One more on the list checked off.

Now that I look at that thing unscrewing itself from the earth, could it be some kind of lid on top of the Black Moon exposing the actual surface (complete with alien trees and other weirdness) to Earth's surface? New souls being generated and then unsealed and let loose?
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Postby Ramiel² » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:27 am

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Sorry for the gaffe, Guf it is.

Gawd, I just remembered there's already a giant steel bird in the action (the Wunder). One more on the list checked off.

Now that I look at that thing unscrewing itself from the earth, could it be some kind of lid on top of the Black Moon exposing the actual surface (complete with alien trees and other weirdness) to Earth's surface? New souls being generated and then unsealed and let loose?


You mean as in a sealed environment that is beeing locked /unlocked with that screw?

Dont know about the alien flora/fauna but in 1.11 they allready showed us a pathway to inside the black moon it seems, so it cant be that good of a seal.

Which brings me to the Point, do we ever acutally see what the black moon/egg is realy made of inside? I mean in NGE it just seem to look like a ball of goo which accumulates all the souls, maybe there is more to it this time..

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Postby Mana » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:10 pm

I really hope this is the right topic for this question and I apologize if it's not but, how does Kaworu "degrade" from being the 1st Angel to the 13th Angel? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the term, it really doesn't make any sense to me. I'm assuming he stopped being the 1st Angel (how is that even possible?) and turned into the 13th Angel?
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Re: [SPOILERS] Second Impact, Third Impact, Adams and Kaworu

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Postby CJD » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:01 pm

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:The original handful of Adams created during 2I landed up being frozen and washed up on various seashores, resulting in survivors like the Mark.09.


Would explain the giant humanoid shape traced by white in 1.11.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:16 pm

Can't this be a continuation of Impact Mechanics?

Mark.09 is referred to specifically as an "Adams' vessel". Having not seen the film, I don't know much about the details, but a couple of interesting things are evident from the dialogue.

- Mari says (not sure what prompts it) to Rei:

01:10:55 Hey, Seele temp pilot,
01:10:58 You can hear me, right?
01:11:00 Don't you think you should get out before you turn into an (alt.: the) Adams' Vessel?
01:11:04 No. That is not the order I received.
01:11:07 Talk about a square.
01:11:09 You know your original was a whole lot more friendly?
01:11:12 Original?
01:11:14 The other me...


Lacking full context, I'm not really sure what the significance of "becoming an Adams' vessel" is. But more on that in a moment...

- When Asuka is trying to take Mark.09 out, she comes to the realization that the whole body is a core.

Obviously it would help to see what Mark.09's 'full body core' actually looks like, but the idea immediately brings to mind the glistening red Evas. A body that's one big core? I don't know what the significance is, though...

(The same idea comes up earlier: the 12 Angel that comes out of Mark.06 is also entirely a core. Quite possibly related.)


"Vessel" implies a container for something, i.e. a vessel for a soul. Are they saying that the container is empty, that maybe the Adams' soul is somewhere else? (Or alternatively, it never got a soul in the first place.) They've already been calling Mark.09 an Adams' Vessel, so what exactly does it mean for Rei to become one? Is she simply becoming one with Mark.09, or becoming an additional A.V., or what? So confusing...
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Postby Blue Monday » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:32 pm

The Mark.09 when it's possessed actually looks all black (Kind of Sachiel-esque) and has glistening blue parts, especially where it's legs are all liquid-like/tentacles as it's attacking the AAA Wunder. It also has the Seele seven-eyed mask logo on it's stomach, and a regrown head with a horn in the vein of Unit-01 or Mark.06.

It looks all kinds of awesome, haha.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:02 am

Blue Monday: Do you have any thoughts on what this "Adams' Vessel" business is all about? And the 'whole body core' thing?

What triggered Mark.09 to enter the "possessed" state, anyway? (What's happening elsewhere at the time?) Is Rei implied to be under threat as long as she continues to stay inside it?

"All black with glistening blue parts"? Weird. Does it still look like it's armored, or does it look more like an energy being, or pseudo-organic, or something? I've been searching for images, even so much as a doodle, on pixiv... but nothing.
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Postby Blue Monday » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:22 am

I missed much of the "Adams' Vessel" stuff in the first viewing, only noticing that the Mark.09 emits a halo just like the Mark.06, Unit-01 and Eva-13. It's a brief glimpse but it really struck me. You see the halo as it rises with Evangelion 13 at the start of Fourth Impact.

Second viewing; paying particular attention to the 12th Angel stuff with Mark.06, and hearing the "Adam" buzz-word here and there - I put it together in my head and just assumed the Mark.09 and the Mark.06 were two of the four Adams from 2I. Which kind of made sense to me, seeing as they have a unique naming convention with "Mark".


What triggered Mark.09 to enter the "possessed" state, anyway?

Just a little way into Fourth Impact, when Asuka and Mari renew their attack. Rei's in the plug and suddenly it all goes dark with nothing but red ominous Seele logos all over. She has no clue what's going on, and kind of just sits back with this subtle defeated expression (This is a Rei, so yeah, really subtle expression). She even seems quite surprised. The occurrence feels like a Seele safeguard to ensure everything goes according to their design(s).


Does it still look like it's armored, or does it look more like an energy being, or pseudo-organic, or something? I've been searching for images, even so much as a doodle, on pixiv... but nothing.

It looks cool, you'll dig it. More organic looking than anything else, and I'd even say it sheds the Eva armour, or grows over the top of it. Like I said, it looks very "Sachiel-esque".

I don't really know why but I really like the Mark.09 (It's like a legitimate Zerogoki design). Along with Unit-08 too, haha. Looking forward to when they both get RAH releases!


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