Shinji Character Analysis (2.0/3.0)

[Darkwing]

Well this could be interesting. Could he be venting frustration? Speaking from experience the thing that sets my temper off the worst is when I'm frustrated, and it hits the boiling point. I'll curse, scream, and if it's bad enough I might end up breaking something I'll regret breaking later. So it could be Shinji's just finally blowing up that (pardon my french here) SHIT JUST FUCKING DOESN'T FUCKING WORK OUT AT ALL THE WAY IT FUCKING SHOULD!" That violent outburst when it just suddenly all comes out.[/u]

[CJD]

Because when he finds out that "his". Rei is not actually alive... he seems to regard his defense/coping mechanism as completely invalidated, and completely breaks down.
Technically, Rei being dead shouldn't invalidate his intention to save her.
Shinji himself is applying a system of "judgement" that is, at least partially result-based.
So what's his internal logic?

His inability to save Rei proves that his whole effort was futile. You glance over it in your post, and Ogata mentions it, but his logic is, essentially, "At least I saved Rei." He's not spending too much time justifying his intentions because, to him, they are just a footnote, similar to some of the people here condemning him (those who think his intentions were good but think there's more to the equation of "guilt" than that). "Yea my intentions were good, but what do intentions matter now? I still screwed up the world, who cares if I had good intentions or not." Even if he fucked up the world, though, he can at least hold onto the thought that it wasn't in vain. "Even if I screwed up the world, at least I saved Rei. It wasn't all in vain. It wasn't futile." Unfortunately it was all in vain, it was futile. He did all that damage and he couldn't even save the girl he loved. That's the point, personally, where you just sorta GG out. "Good game Reality, I lose. /logout " Which is essentially what he does, short of bullet to mouth, something Shinji's always been incapable of.

To go back to it quick, just in case it wasn't clear since I moved past it fast: I think Shinji's immediate moral fallback position of "But my intentions were good!" is a halfhearted coping mechanism that springs up as an immediate defense, not as part of his moral system.

[Bagheera]

When I was watching 3.0 I seriously thought there was no Rei, and that Shinji was hanging on to a illusion from the start -- the Rei he thought he rescued didn't exist, and the real Rei died when Zeruel chomped her Eva. But then Fuyu said flat out that she's part of Eva 01's operating system just like Yui is and that theory went out the window. It'll be interesting to see how 4.0 juggles all of that.

[Na7e]

It'll be interesting to see how 4.0 juggles all of that.

Shinji willingly kicks off final impact, and instrumentality to get back to Rei-2 before realizing that it sucks, and decides to reverse it. Rei-2 gets Nia ending. Beach scene happens, except Kaworu comes out of Red Sea after Asuka. Tells Shinji's he doesn't swing that way before sweeping Shikinami off her feet to make a bunch of super angel babies. While Shinji cries alone./fanwank

[Darkwing]

When I was watching 3.0 I seriously thought there was no Rei, and that Shinji was hanging on to a illusion from the start -- the Rei he thought he rescued didn't exist, and the real Rei died when Zeruel chomped her Eva. But then Fuyu said flat out that she's part of Eva 01's operating system just like Yui is and that theory went out the window. It'll be interesting to see how 4.0 juggles all of that.

That wouldn't explain how the SDAT got into the entry plug though. Rei had it in her entry plug when she got nommed by Zuereil. It's with her when Shinji pulls her out and into Unit-01. And it's found in the plug by Wille. So something did happen, and the SDAT is physical proof.

Sadly I see no way Poka Rei is going to be around after the end of Final. That would actually be the single biggest surprise Anno could pull on me at this point.

[pwhodges]

Shinji willingly kicks off final impact, and instrumentality to get back to Rei-2...

And so the parallel between Gendou/Yui and Shinji/Rei is made plain.

[Na7e]

And so the parallel between Gendou/Yui and Shinji/Rei is made plain.

It was all the way back in 2.0's ending. How else am I supposed to look at Shinji risks everything including his own humanity to get Rei back from the alien space monster. It sounds awfully familiar doesn't it?

[pwhodges]

In 2.0 it was done in the heat of the moment, unplanned; if he does it again, it will be planned, as Gendou has been doing.

[Na7e]

In 2.0 it was done in the heat of the moment, unplanned; if he does it again, it will be planned, as Gendou has been doing.

I guess if you ignore all the Rei/Unit-00 imagery that accompanies Shinji's run to Nerv, and the fact when in Unit-01 he deliberately goes after Zeruel's core...it's not exactly hard to make the connection that his entire intention in the first place was to save Rei, and not some heat of the moment thing.

[pwhodges]

He saw Rei in trouble, and ran to Unit-01 to go to rescue her now - this is not planning, but heat of the moment; Gendou is taking years to fulfil his plan to get back with Yui - entirely different.

[A.T. Fish]

Even if you consider his run towards the cages as a planned effort to save Rei he clearly didn't plan to sacrifice the world for this, that bit was entirely unpredictable to him (unlike Gendo who in addition to predicting it also worked to make it happen).

[Darkwing]

I think that there probably are parrells. But Shinji is no where near Gendo's level yet. Shinji hasn't truly decided to screw the world over for Rei yet. He hasn't premeiditivly gone in knowing what will happen. And Shinji can't make one decision Gendo has, that is he can't ruin his sons life in persuit of his goals. Well assuming that's Gendo's goal.

[CyberXIII]

@Darkwing
Some people, particularly those with eyepatches, would disagree. Then again, the people that the cyclops represents really don't care about Shinji's problems, if they ever did.

If Anno wasn't making it plain that he isn't going to Redo the same story all over again I'd say everyone is going to die horribly in 4.0.

Instead, I would just like to point out my problem with the Gendo/Shinji parallel, and the view that Shinji is no better than his father.

Gendo is an psychotic, evil puppet master that wants to blow up the entire world to drag his dead wife out of a robot that ate her. In a sense, he really only cares about himself and his problems. Everything comes second: Yui's wishes, his son's welfare, the fate of the world he now controls....everything. Everything he does is tied into getting Yui back.

Shinji, by contrast, is a neurotic, angry mess that wants all his pain to stop, and is unknowingly following in his father's footsteps in an attempt to do so. He doesn't want to kill anyone, he doesn't want to fight, he just want to be left in peace. And yet, from the very first movie he demonstrates that he has a sense of selflessness. Yes, it's there. why else would he get into EVA-01? He fights again and again, suffers worse than anyone in the main cast (especially in Redo), and what does he ask in return?

Nothing, save for his father to actually acknowledge him for once in his life.

[pwhodges]

I should remark that I was not suggesting that there is a parallel - just that someone else's suggestion for a possible plot-line in Final was making that parallel. Myself, I don't go for it - Shinji's story is different from his father's, and however similar his (future) actions might appear (and we don't know that they will), they will still have quite different motivation.

[SaltyJoe]

why else would he get into EVA-01?

for his father to actually acknowledge him for once in his life.

For fuck's sake, Shinji himself states it in 2.0.

At any rate, Shinji unknowingly emulating Gendo is not his fault, but a cumulative effect of his flaws he needs to overcome.

[Kendrix]

I think I have already elaborated on my weird relationship with that one reaction shot of Shinji's, the Moment he realizes he's talking to a clone.
On the one hand, such a complex mix of many things... on the other, ouch, just ouch.

Yeah. Then I accidentally happened to press the fullscreen-button on the camrip, and noticed something.
It was hard to tell because the camrip was, well, a camrip, I initially mistook it for those many lines that had been accumulating beneath Shinji's eyes over the course of the movie.
But I paused, paused and paused again, and then I could even distinctly make it out in the regular sized image.

You actually see one single tear welling up in his eye.

[CyberXIII]

I...

I just....

That was the second cruelest thing Anno did to him in the whole fucking trainwreck. In any other franchise saving Rei would have been the right thing to do, but since we can't have a cosmic horror story without the heroes failing at life....Dammit.

I'm fine. I have something in my eye, that's all...I have something in my other eye. I have something in my heart...

I don't get it. What was the purpose in escalating things so badly? Does Anno want Shinji to end the world?

[Bagheera]

I don't get it. What was the purpose in escalating things so badly? Does Anno want Shinji to end the world?

Dude, you aren't new here. Why are you even asking?

[CyberXIII]

I only said that because Anno all but told us he wasn't going to do a repeat of the same story all over again.

[CJD]

I only said that because Anno all but told us he wasn't going to do a repeat of the same story all over again.

See, that's why you can't trust Anno.