Shinji Character Analysis (2.0/3.0)

[Kendrix]

I'm pretty sure this has been stated over and over again in this thread but I think Shiji's behavior in Q was completely understandable. I'm not quite sure I have fully grasped the motives for all the hate he's getting from people but seriously, as someone who's seen the movie mostly unspoiled I can tell you that his despair is really well conveyed in there, it involved me as a spectator and made me feel a great deal of sympathy for the character.

Thank you. It's always relieving to see someone else who doesn't hate his guts.
Because, I just can't stop imagining what it must feel like, it gets so real in my head, this is the first time a work of fiction hit me so hard that I couldn't concentrate on my real life activities.
Sure, sometimes I'd spent days gushing to my siblings of commenting on how sad something was, but I could... turn out the PC, so to speak.
But Q... It's the first time I went to bet with depressing thoughts and woke up thinking about the same things.
And I've seen others here who had those... feelings, and it is a bit disconcerting to see people who... just don't seem to have that reaction.
I'm not saying they're jerks because of it or anything, but i get this desire to make it comprehensible to them.

Something I was already gonna remark on is that the flow of this movie isn't "End of 2.0, and then... BAM! Here comes your retribution for it, bastard." The revelation comes in the middle, and there were processes going on before it. I didn't get that so much from watching the finished product since I already knew, but the interview describes the flow there.
That's also what that Ogata interview says, and her comments on positive flow/developements there - I wouldn't have gone looking for any such things if not for her statement, but maybe we should.
Maybe we should do a more detailed analysis beyond the mere "Is he as bad as Mao" discussion.

[SaltyJoe]

They had Sakura run tests, but she found nothing of that sort, so...

Given their track record with Angelic infection*, better safe than sorry is probably a part of their policy.

*Asuka's left eye glows the same shade of blue that could be seen on both the Ninth and the Twelfth (and she refers to humans as Lilin). If she isn't part Angel i'll eat my hat. So much for "all traces of cellular contamination" being "gone".

[Bhorium]

On the question of to what degree Shinji can qualify as blameless; I really can't help but view his actions in the end of 2.0 and how they are treated in 3.0 as something akin to that scene from Spec Ops: The Line:

(Spoilers) http://youtu.be/-b7TaLjdXMc

It might be that I am biased because of that scene (just look at my avatar), but I can see the same tropes in play here.

SPOILER: Show

Like Shinji, Walker, the "hero" of The Line, has good intentions and does indeed achieve his goal, but manages through his rash decision and short-sightedness to make things much, much worse, and the narrative really puts the bulk of the blame on him. Of course, the scene is treated quite differently. Rather than Rebuild's approach where the whole horrific aftermath is kept at a more distant and implied level, we get a much more up-close look at it here. And especially Lugo's reaction carries the implication ("HE JUST TURNED US INTO FUCKING! KILLERS!").

[/spoiler]

[Na7e]

When he started, he didn't know he had any magical mojo at his disposition, so he must've had something more 'old-fashioned' in mind - Notice how, in a notable contrast to the original series where he went for the head-mask-thing, he goes to tear Zeruel open around the middle where you'd intuitively expect any stomach-like structures.

Oh I noticed. But, really after watching Zeruel chew Unit-00 like food makes it rather clear that she's fucked. Expecting Shinji to realize that is a pointless game because after watching 3.0, I'm pretty sure I can count the number of brain cells he has on one hand, and still have fingers left over.

4I showed a similarly "chemical reaction"-like progression - Eva goes white, vortex appears, stuff goes poof, regardless of what the people inside want.

Your missing the part where the Eva takes something into its body. Guess what Unit-01 took into its body. Here's a hint she was eaten earlier in the movie.

It was over the moment the EVA reactivated - But if it hadn't, wouldn't Zeruel have wiped out humanity *completely*?

He could have ejected upon killing Zeruel aborting the entire process. Problem solved.

[pwhodges]

He could have ejected upon killing Zeruel aborting the entire process. Problem solved.

That presumes that he knew there was any reason to. He didn't.

[one-eyed]

I apologize for my poor English. Asuka also failed to eject when Bardiel took control of Unit 03. The situation was very similar, even the surreal effect on the Dummy Plug, hearing voices and, in the case of Asuka, laughter. It was very bizarre and there more than what meets the eye.

The fight itself is strange: Shinji is fighting Zeruel normally. We see that he is doing the right thing and striving to remove the Angel of the Geofront (we also realize that he has no fighting technique, his movements are awkward since he was never trained in unarmed combat, knows no martial arts and act by instinct. You cannot immobilize someone with an arm lock in a fight of life and death if never even learned how to fight! Such is the origin of the fiasco with Bardiel and drama/angst plot). He is consistent in his actions and is thinking clearly, until Eva stops working. Right now everything goes crazy. And something happens. But is not a berserker.

A few minutes before we saw Unit 02 go into berserker with Mari and found that the limiters are removed first, earning the pilot's eyes glow green and Eva and pilot earn animalistic characteristics, attacking with teeth and claws. This is the same thing that runs in Episode 19 of the TV series. Shinji inside the Eva despairs, and feels a presence symbolized by the blue flame. And the berserker begins. Unit 01 walks in four, shreds Zeruel, eating S2 engine and gets rid of the limiters.

This time is different; there is a red glow in his eyes, not green, red. As the eyes of Rei and Kaworu. And he does not win animalistic traits. Unit 01 fights and destroy Zeruel, fighting erect, using a mastery of the AT Field that is simply impossible that Shinji has. For God's sake, Kensuke knew more about the operations of the Eva that Shinji! Where did that? And not only that, when the apotheosis was occurring, the core is exposed and Eva limiters are not ejected. They simply disappear. As if they never existed. And this time Shinji is hallucinating inside of Eva having visions and hearing the voice of Rei, which is also absurd. He is oblivious to everything happening outside because the Plug is crazy, just as occurred with Asuka during Bardiel. He simply is not in control of that thing!

Shinji is not alone in the Eva 01. Yui is there, really. And another person also. After the fight with Sachiel in Rebuilding 01, Shinji has a vision of a different kind of Rei. The Soul of Unit 01. The situation is similar to what happened with Unit 00 in the TV series when Shinji make a cross synchronization test and in the manga when he was absorbed and found "Yui". Unit 01 has its own soul and mind, with their personal goals and ambitions. Seele says it has a contract with Lilith. And Gendo said that everything that happened was part of the plan. Rei is the original soul of Lilith and now was absorbed into Unit 01, the true Daughter of Lilith. The original body is a useless carcass. There's something here.

[Na7e]

That presumes that he knew there was any reason to. He didn't.

Unit-01 taking an absurd power jump, or maybe Ritsuko's warnings. Take your pick. But, really it's largely irrelevant because Shinji was throwing a temper tantrum.

[Darkwing]

Not this again. Ritsuko does not tell him that he will cause 3rd impact. She tells him he won't be human anymore. Difference.

As for the power boost, yeah he isn't thinking clearly. Of course he's a monster for wanting to save someone he cares about.

[Na7e]

Not this again. Ritsuko does not tell him that he will cause 3rd impact. She tells him he won't be human anymore. Difference.

Nice reading comprehension there, since I never actually said that. But, really I was talking about how there were actual reasons for him to eject once Zeruel was killed.

[Darkwing]

Okay, looking back I see you weren't actually saying what Ritsuko was saying was important. But I wouldn't say temper tantrum for yanking Rei out of Zuriel. Stomping on Nerv HQ was the temper tantrum. As for the power up, he seems fairly oblivious about it. Then again he's probably more focused on saving Rei than anything else at that point. Again he really doesn't know whats going on.

[CJD]

Are we even sure he can hear Ritsuko and Misato? Not that it really matters to me, just curious. I think someone mentioned a while back that he couldn't but I'm not sure.

[Reichu]

Are we even sure he can hear Ritsuko and Misato? Not that it really matters to me, just curious. I think someone mentioned a while back that he couldn't but I'm not sure.

People are just guessing, AFAIK. It's possible that they have wireless transmitters on their persons that can send communications to the pilots, but I haven't paid enough attention to know offhand if such devices are implied in any other, less controversial scenes in the first two movies.

But I wouldn't say temper tantrum for yanking Rei out of Zuriel.

In a certain light, the whole scene plays out as Shinji throwing a fit to get back the "binky" he'd thrown away -- and, like a sullied brat, only decides he wants it once someone else has taken it.

[slothen]

I can't be arsed to read this whole thread right now, but I was not a big fan of 3.0, but even I don't have much to complain about from Shinji's actions. He only had one pants-on-head-retarded moment and that was when he wouldn't even listen to Kaworu telling him to stop.

In a certain light, the whole scene plays out as Shinji throwing a fit to get back the "binky" he'd thrown away -- and, like a sullied brat, only decides he wants it once someone else has taken it.

Thrown away by running away you mean? Heh. "In a certain light" indeed.

[Reichu]

I can't be arsed to read this whole thread right now

There are fits of inspiration in between the usual back-and-forth, so it's worth skimming through, and slowing down for the good parts.

Thrown away by running away you mean? Heh. "In a certain light" indeed.

Could be my AS acting up, but I'm not sure what you're implying.

[slothen]

There are fits of inspiration in between the usual back-and-forth, so it's worth skimming through, and slowing down for the good parts.


Could be my AS acting up, but I'm not sure what you're implying.

39.... Pages.

And no, I didn't meant to imply anything, just clarifying that by thrown away you're referring to him refusing to fight Zeruel. Beyond that, yeah, its a pretty mean interpretation that is clearly not what the creators are going for.

[Reichu]

39.... Pages.

Well, seeing what's happened before helps minimize the whole "doubling the thread page count with retread" problem. (If everyone who contributed to the thread had read it beforehand, I imagine it would be much shorter, in a good way.)

And no, I didn't meant to imply anything, just clarifying that by thrown away you're referring to him refusing to fight Zeruel.

He "threw away" his relationship with Rei when he walked out on Nerv, and left her to cope with subsequent Angel attacks with only the dummy system to call comrade. He let his anger toward his father and feelings of worthlessness punish Rei, who had done nothing wrong and whom he purportedly cared for. Shinji was quite content to stew in his little pot and do nothing until Rei was (by traditional laws of reality) beyond saving, at which point he suddenly decided he cared. Then he rages until Rei is back in his arms like a plushie or other comfort object.

(Though oddly, he doesn't even make the fight about Rei until the Eva is out of juice, and doing anything specifically for Rei requires pulling energy and power-ups out of the Eva's asshole... I wonder what the reason for the delay is?)

[Na7e]

(Though oddly, he doesn't even make the fight about Rei until the Eva is out of juice, and doing anything specifically for Rei requires pulling energy and power-ups out of the Eva's asshole... I wonder what the reason for the delay is?)

Kendrix did mention that it seems like he's going for more conventional methods of getting Rei outside the angel at first, and judging by the film you could make that interpretation. But, that's not really a good indicator that Shinji is acting rationally because even then he watched Zeruel chew on Unit-00 before taking and absorbing it.

[Reichu]

Kendrix did mention that it seems like he's going for more conventional methods of getting Rei outside the angel at first

Not that I ever saw. (And I screencapped the entire movie, sadly enough.) Before the power runs out, he directs attacks at the face, core, or things covering the core, but makes no attempt to retrieve these hypothesized "stomach contents" (as by, I don't know..., deploying the prog knife to do some cutting, or punching into the body cavity Temple of Doom style). When he later goes for Rei, he goes for the core (from which lots of little Rei that he actually talks to appear), and makes the thing's surface implode with the Eva's hands. There's no confusion whatsoever about where Rei is, but there is confusion on our part about how Shinji knows that Rei is there, or how he suddenly knows how to get her out of there, and etc.

[Mr. Tines]

I start to wonder if it's not actually Shinji who we should rate at 250-300 Hitlers, but Evil Bitch Yui who was pulling his strings when Eva-01 went beyond normal operating paameters.

Just throwing that out there...

[Reichu]

I start to wonder if it's not actually Shinji who we should rate at 250-300 Hitlers, but Evil Bitch Yui who was pulling his strings when Eva-01 went beyond normal operating paameters.

Ever since 2.0, I've had visions in my head of Yui floating above Amazing Technicolor Shinji in the plug, manipulating him like a marionette on strings. But funny as part of me finds that, Eva-13 also going out of control and doing weird Impacty shit makes it seem like it's just something that Evas do when you rub them the right way... Unless I'm misunderstanding, and since it's 5AM here there's a good chance of that.