Shinji Character Analysis (2.0/3.0)

[Darkwing]

Feeling remorse after killing thousands of people doesn't really bump Shinji far up in the sympathy department. Even TV anti heroes like Tony Soprano or Walter White generally aren't shown to be psychopaths in the "clinical" sense of feeling no guilt whatsoever.

If 3rd Impact involved no volition at all on Shinji's part, conscious or otherwise, then his failure is strictly mechanical and his arc in 3.0 amounts to "learning not to run with pointy objects." If Shinji has no need to fundamentally change, whar is the point of this exercise?

He needs to change, but the problem is that he's so far out there and the magnitude of the consequences of his actions makes it hard to see them as the simple things they are supposed to be. I mean, how should he change? What should he learn? That's why I kinda wonder if Anno overdid it.

And another problem is that Shinji isn't capable of outright winning at times. The information he would need to know, he doesn't. Some of the situations are his fault. But others, their is no way he can be victorious. He can live, others can live, but it would never feel like a win.

[Kendrix]

Well he was mostly concerned about his own innocence, and even then he admits that he was jealous his dad found a replacement in the dummy system.

Again, this black and white thinking. If there's only one bit of self-interest/personal involvement involved, that MUST obviously be all there is. *sigh* To quote his VA, "how selfish of him, to be a human being."

The reason there's any innocence/possible guilt to be considered/not wanted at all is because he thinks that sacrificing a person's life, coldly weighing lives against each other, is wrong.

A naive point of view belonging to a child, yes. But that doesn't change that this kid quite obviosly DOES value human life.

yeah, just refusing to do anything is easier than trying to save Asuka yourself and risk doing it wrong.
But just crushing EVA 03 without any regard for her and considering her fate someone else's problem is even easier.


He just at times loses sight of the "big sceme of things" when he's all emotional. He panicks easily. Panicking actually deactivates the parts of your brain responsible for higher, logical thinking.
The evolutional justification behind this is, of course, that you're not supposed to ponder the meaning of existence when you're running for your dear life because a cave bear is chasing you.
People whose simple instinctual/emotional response wasn't imperative/absolute got crushed by the grindwheels of evolution.
Obviously, they were weeded out before our brains evolved to be more capable at making decisions that our basic flight instincts.

This is commonly used as an explanation for why most people find math tests dreadful, but it also explains the finale of 3.0.

[Lucretius]

I don't think refusing to kill Asuka says much of anything about Shinji's character, considering that literally the next day she is implicitly grouped with "the world" in the "I don't care if they live or die" category.

And "I can't just kill someone" sounds hilariously cold in context.

[Kendrix]

No, HE ISNT, for the upteenth time.
He didn't know there was any world destroying choice involved.


As far as he knows, saving the world is a natural side effect of killing Zeruel.
He never meant to do anything contrary to that - what his line means, in an obvious callback to Misato's earlier, similar line, is "Yea, but that's not my main motivation. The truth is, I'm not really a big altruistic hero, but I'm not letting one more person die because of my inaction, least of all Rei." Or Misato, whom he also gloriously saved from death by Zeruel blast.

It was a reply to "bad stuff could happen to YOU".

DAMNIT!

This just infuriates me to no end, because it SHOULD JUST BE SO OBVIOUS TO SEE.
Inferring "Lol genocide" from this line is like assuming that someone writing the word "No" obviously means "Yes" because the N totally looks like a Y, completely disregarding the rest of the word.

You people should NOT be like those stupid machopigs who go "Uhh, whiny pussy man up", I KNOW you're intelligent, rational people!


I guess that line just threw "Kimochi Warui" off its "most debated line in the frachise"-throne.

[Na7e]

I don't think refusing to kill Asuka says much of anything about Shinji's character, considering that literally the next day she is implicitly groupee with "the world" in the "I don't care if they live or die" category.

Well it's largely irrelevant because the next time Shinji sees her....he genuinely doesn't believe that he did anything wrong by her. And, really instead of wondering why Asuka, and by extension Misato are pissed at him...he just runs away to Rei again. Well first he calls Misato a stupid liar, but you get the idea. Shinji just likes the easy way out.

[Kendrix]

Well it's largely irrelevant because the next time Shinji sees her....he genuinely doesn't believe that he did anything wrong by her. And, really instead of wondering why Asuka, and by extension Misato are pissed at him...he just runs away to Rei again. Well first he calls Misato a stupid liar, but you get the idea. Shinji just likes the easy way out.

He was wondering, IT's just that no one was telling him shit.
He's asking all the time.
Shinji: Wait, I'm confused, WTF again? Why are you fighting EVAs of all sudden?
Ritsuko: It can't be helped your confused *snark*

The first thing he does in NERV HQ is to ask Rei WTF is the deal. Part of the reason (No, I'm not claiming it's the only one) why he went with her was hoping he'd get a straight answer for once.
Gendo: You will be piloting this shit. Bye.
Shinji: Wait! ANWSERS!

When Kaworu asks him if he wants to know the truth, Shinji comes with him, as scared as he may have been.
Kaworu: "Here is the truth you desired"

Actually, that's a mayor step forward from Shinji's usual "just-ignore-the-weirdness"-policy and I'm shocked how no one commented on it yet.

He wasn't given any chance to apologize, since the first thing Asuka did was... yeah, place a smack where his face would be, putting a dent in a thick pane of glass.
The way he's so very overjoyed to see her indicates mayor relief.

And when someone tells you something that drastically clashes with reality as you percieve it, like telling you someone who's right infront of your nose is dead, you call bull on it. By that point, he doesn't know of any clones, nor is something outlandish as "clones" the first thing that would float to your mind in such a situation.

Later comments indicate that he does not blame Misato at all once he found out the reason for her actions. Even when she rams EVA 13, no indication of blame, just "Oh, it's Misato!"

[Darkwing]

Have to see it myself to be sure, but it sure seems like his reaction to Asuka is more a glad your alive than anything else. Apologies for not doing more to save her can come later.

[MitsumuraKun51196]

Either way if he does die or doesn't
EVERYBODY FINDS LOVE IN THE END
He will find peace and harmony he will find forgiveness and
he will be wanted.And if he is sacrificing himself for the others to live
He is making 1 good choice by not killing everyone again
I would do that.
I'm hoping for the best.

[Kendrix]

Have to see it myself to be sure, but it sure seems like his reaction to Asuka is more a glad your alive than anything else. Apologies for not doing more to save her can come later.

Didn't really mean to claim anything else, but from what we hear in the audio rip, it's a pretty strong positive reaction, so it may imply relief there.
But generally, all of Shinji's emotions in this movie, both positive and negative, seem very intense. Even when it's something positive, it seems a bit "too much" for what it's reacting to, a bit "broken" in nature, probably because of the state he's in, he's really gradually falling to bits as the whole thing goes on, and not even Kaworu could really halt it...
That total implosion of his mind, soul, very being and everything...

Isn't it natural that "Oh, you live!" would be the first reaction?`

He does ask about her eye...


@MitsumuraKun51196

Hm, maybe you're a bit too optimistic here, that's not the kind of unambigiously classic heroic situation we'd find him in.

But it soothes me that at least SOMEBODY seems to fe FEELING for him.
When I read the synopsis, when I watched this camrips, I just got that whole EMPATHY thing going, I pictured again and again how horrible that situation must be, how bleak, it had me depressed for several days - Lol, apparently, Ogata herself was similarly freaked out, judging by her interview...

And these people here... they aren't feeling it, they're rubbing salt into it, they just aren't FEELING it.
I'm not even blaming them, I just don't understand.
Basically, that same rant CJD made some pages earlier.

[Na7e]

And these people here... they aren't feeling it, they're rubbing salt into it, they just aren't FEELING it.

I don't feel empathy for whiny little scumbags who fuck people over for their own emotional neediness causing permanent damage, and bodily harm to the people around them.

[Alpha]

I don't feel empathy for whiny little scumbags who fuck people over for their own emotional neediness causing permanent damage, and bodily harm to the people around them.

So, you dont feel empathy for humans? Sorry, I just had to say that. I do believe this is getting out of hand.

[Kendrix]

I don't feel empathy for whiny little scumbags who fuck people over for their own emotional neediness causing permanent damage, and bodily harm to the people around them.

That's really brainless, oversimplified bashing.

Please, weren't we having an intelligent discussion a while ago, or are you out of arguments?

I can live with it on a Naruto forum or something, but here? NUANCE. DIFFERENTIATED VIEWS. SHADES OF GREY. DETAILED MECHANICS.

He was trying to do good things, he never intended any of the shit that happened, how can you, after reading the script of Q, after listening to that audio rip, as much as suggest that he WANTED that in ANY way?

I'm not saying he couldn't have done some things better - yes, now, in hindsight. He did some emotional, irrational things, and stuff exploded into his face. But to say that this desctruction, this bleakness was in any way a result he desired... no, just no.
Fucking no.

In some ways, it was a result of his actions, but certainly not the one he wanted, was trying to bring about, or the one that would come as a natural consequence from his thoughts, wishes and personality. This is the difference here.
He did NOT want this.

[Darkwing]

Apparently some people expect Shinji to be some sort of infalliable superhuman saint who will of course always put others before himself and instinctively knows the right course of action for making the world better.

The sad thing is that only some situations for the kid are winnable. Some are more like a case of avoid worse case scenario. Lets take Unit-03. Okay so he does fight back, then what? Is stopping it or beating it without harming Asuka really possible? Not to mention Gendo can still decide to test out the dummy plug if he decides Shinji's attempts aren't working. Okay so if he knew saving Rei would screw the world over, is that a win for him? Worlds okay but he had to let someone he cared about die. Stay at Nerv after the Unit-03 incident? I actually doubt he'd be in Unit-01 any sooner. After all they don't want him piloting anymore, and as far as Gendo is concerned the Dummy Plug is preferable anyways. Misato or someone would have to go get him and throw him in the Eva before he'd be able to be deployed. The biggest thing I can straight up lay on his feet is stomping on Nerv HQ. Dumb as hell, but still understandable. Good reason or not, no one is going to be happy with someone they think killed a friend of theres. His stomping on it with the Eva is the really bad part. If he screamed at Gendo sans Eva, really wouldn't have seemed so bad.

Remember that in the first two movies the people who are running the show want impact to happen, and are in a posistion to manipulate Shinji.

[Kendrix]

Also, some of the things he did relating to the bardiel incident and its aftermath were childish - but he IS a child.

In hindsight, that one moment of weakness that even proper heroes would habe, cost him Rei.

When Naruto had such a moment where he nearly gave up, Minato showed up, and Sakura turned up in time to fix Hinata. No such luck for Shinji. Yeah, sometimes life sux like that.

That universe isn't cutting him ANY slack.

If he'd had that epiphany just a few hours earlier, he may have protected Rei with entirely impact-free methods consisting mainly of tearing zeruel a new one the old fashioned way ... with a power cable.

Remember that in the first two movies the people who are running the show want impact to happen, and are in a posistion to manipulate Shinji.

Yeah. Both times, he walked into traps that were designed specifically to mess with his emotions, tailered specifically to him.

Again, getting out of that would be exceptional, not to be expected.
Shinji was an unwitting pawn. Yea. That's his fault, not seeing through that. Seeing through it and not touching the stupid spears would be the badass thing. That's what, say, Ichigo Kurosaki would do.
"Shut up, Ginjo, you're just saying these things about Ukitake to mess with my head, I'm gonna PWN you now!"
But Shinji's one single kid and the other side has been planning since before his birth.

In 3.0, he WAS trying to subvert them. He was trying to prevent fourth impact, and he causes fourth impact.
That's how utterly powerless he is before those big organizations.
He was trying to doublecross Gendo... and ends up playing into SEELE's hands. Freakin SEELE.
Gendo would've been the (slightly) better option, Shinji's intervention ended up making it worse!

The "broken bridge" scene from 1.0 comes to mind.

[Darkwing]

Again, getting out of that would be exceptional, not to be expected.
Shinji was an unwitting pawn. Yea. That's his fault, not seeing through that. Seeing through it and not touching the stupid spears would be the badass thing. That's what, say, Ichigo Kurosaki would do.
"Shut up, Ginjo, you're just saying these things about Ukitake to mess with my head, I'm gonna PWN you now!"
But Shinji's one single kid and the other side has been planning since before his birth

Ichigo has had a lot better upbringing, and a way better father than Shinji. Shinji has not had too many decent role models, and I wouldn't say he was raised in a way were he'd be able to deal with a normal life well, much less the shit he has to deal with. Shinji had a poor upbringing. Mom wasn't there, and dad foisted him off on a teacher. The kids childhood was not conductive to him growing into a strong capable individual by the time he's 14. It's the idea of the "worthless adults". If you got "worthless adults" raising them (or not) the kids sure aren't going to have a easy time growing up to be worthwile.

[Kendrix]

The most jarring thing is, Gendo does not even bother to give Shinji and Kaworu instructions - from the beginning, everything they could possibly have done down there of what they think to be their own free wills would have played into his hands in some way or another...

[MitsumuraKun51196]

Didn't really mean to claim anything else, but from what we hear in the audio rip, it's a pretty strong positive reaction, so it may imply relief there.
But generally, all of Shinji's emotions in this movie, both positive and negative, seem very intense. Even when it's something positive, it seems a bit "too much" for what it's reacting to, a bit "broken" in nature, probably because of the state he's in, he's really gradually falling to bits as the whole thing goes on, and not even Kaworu could really halt it...
That total implosion of his mind, soul, very being and everything...

Isn't it natural that "Oh, you live!" would be the first reaction?`

He does ask about her eye...


@MitsumuraKun51196

Hm, maybe you're a bit too optimistic here, that's not the kind of unambigiously classic heroic situation we'd find him in.

But it soothes me that at least SOMEBODY seems to fe FEELING for him.
When I read the synopsis, when I watched this camrips, I just got that whole EMPATHY thing going, I pictured again and again how horrible that situation must be, how bleak, it had me depressed for several days - Lol, apparently, Ogata herself was similarly freaked out, judging by her interview...

And these people here... they aren't feeling it, they're rubbing salt into it, they just aren't FEELING it.
I'm not even blaming them, I just don't understand.
Basically, that same rant CJD made some pages earlier.

I'm sorry I mean I understand what your saying too That was a pretty selfish choice he made there. But again he wasn't knowing what was going on
and He is pretty desperate if someone Loved him and actually did something for him he would risk his own life just to save them.
but after watching the camrips If I was Shinji at that point I wouldn't know what to do. But very good point kendrex
P.S I'm new

[Na7e]

He was trying to do good things, he never intended any of the shit that happened, how can you, after reading the script of Q, after listening to that audio rip, as much as suggest that he WANTED that in ANY way?

One never advocated he wanted to end the world in 3.0 so don't attribute that too me. However, I don't believe that he was trying to do anything remotely good at 3.0's climax. Ignoring the people around you, including the person who is bearing your sin who can die if you fuck up. All the while chasing a magic reset button as an easy way out because you want people to like you again doesn't scream good intentions. Just like in 2.0, his actions in 3.0 deserve nothing but contempt.

[Kendrix]

You were suggesting he wanted the results of the climax in 2.0/ to destroy the world, which is simply not true, giving his lack of knowledge and immediate reaction.

It's the sheer scale, really.


It's really like a kid played with matches and that ended up getting the whole house burned down.

Situation in 2.0: Three year old Child finds matches not correctly hidden away, not knowing what they were, and plays with them.
Situation in 3.0: Three year old Child gets vague warning by parents that these are not toys.

Yes, the child should not have played with the matches. It is "responsible" as far as that goes.

But it's a child, with the mental capacity of a child, and lost all the friends and family in that building.
And didn't grasp that fire is that lethal.

And you people are hung up over the infinite vileness and moral repulsiveness of the act of playing with matches.



A little immaturity expectable from a teenager leads to BOOM-KATABOOM-BOOM-BOOM.

Yes, the result still stands, but at the front end of that long, long lever, all that teenager is guilty of is, well, being a teenager.
It was a little immature act, AT VERY WORST. I don't really think even that much is really correct/fair, especially not where 2.0 is concerned,I stand by the point that he was genuinely trying to save his friend/the world, but let's just assume it wasn't genuine. What does that make him?

The results were blown out of proportions by the involvement of mechas, but that doesn't change that what this particular teenager is guilty of is, just a little teenage immaturity and at very worst, deserving of a stern admonishment by some parent.


NOT all this repulsing lack of human empathy you all have been displaying.

[CJD]

If 3rd Impact involved no volition at all on Shinji's part, conscious or otherwise, then his failure is strictly mechanical and his arc in 3.0 amounts to "learning not to run with pointy objects." If Shinji has no need to fundamentally change, what is the point of this exercise?

The point of this exercise is in the title of the movie: You can't redo the past. You cannot undo bad things that happen, intentional or otherwise. There's no magic spell you can cast to undo what's been done. Consequently there's no point wallowing in it like Shinji does. Shinji doesn't move forward in 3.0. Both 1.0 and 2.0 Shinji moves forward. It's not a steady pace, he takes a step back occasionally, but for every step back he takes two steps forward. But the entirety of 3.0 is Shinji wallowing in self pity, in the past. It's pretty common, countless people have got lost in their sorrows, in yearning for what's been lost, but it's a pointless exercise.

Edit: Taking it to the next level, what happens to Shinji in 3.0? What is the result of his inability to look forward? It backfires on him. In his desire to bring back the past, to return to what's been lost, he causes 4I. He causes more harm than good, just like the real world. Nothing good can come of not moving forward, nothing good can come from an inability to let go of the past. When you don't move forward it's doubly tragic because not only is the past lost to you but you're also losing every second you stand still, all that time wallowing in sadness is time that is wasted, time you'll never get back.

Edit 2: There's also a message about hate, and how hate does more harm than good too. It is because of their hate for Shinji that Wille treated him the way they did, and it's because they treated him like they did that he so easily made the decision to leave, and later to trust Kaworu over them. Hate in it's true form is a horrible emotion, it consumes people, it leads people to act in ways no rational person, no good person, would. Good doesn't come of hate, not often, and it didn't in 3.0.

You guys are so obsessed with painting Shinji in such a horrible light, that's what Wille did and look at what happened. Not only did it almost cause 4I but it also played right into Gendo's, the enemies, hands. Say they needed to hate more, say they needed to abandon their humanity more and just outright kill Shinji, but I don't think that's the message there, nor do I think that's an admirable message. I think that entirely misses the point of their failure.

Because who is it who ultimately stops 4I? Who is it who prevents even more death? It's not Asuka, it's not Misato, it's not Ritsuko or Mari or anyone from Wille. It's Kaworu. It's the one person who treats Shinji with the most respect as a human, the one person who is kind to Shinji. He's the one who succeeds in preventing 4I from completing.

But as Kaworu learned unconditional love is no more healthy than hate, is it? No, like most things the best result lies in the middle.