The new body of Rei

[Kendrix]

Similarly, a "fixed" Rei as early as in the beginning of the third movie would so ruin the drama, not to mention that no self-respecting author would miss the chance to, you know, portray such a game-changing event in their storyline instead of just handwaving it as soon as the two get out.
Also, stuff being fixed by teh magix isn't Anno's style at all.
Actually, the dialogue in the scene leans more towards "clone/angel or not, you're still a person/unique" = more or less your usual "I luv u just as u are" which has actually more to say to real ppl who feel insignificant just like Rei, but sadly live in a world without godlike mechas.

[Sachi]

Actually, the dialogue in the scene leans more towards "clone/angel or not, you're still a person/unique" = more or less your usual "I luv u just as u are" which has actually more to say to real ppl who feel insignificant just like Rei, but sadly live in a world without godlike mechas.

I'm less inclined to think it's even that.

Rei says that Shinji shouldn't bother to save her because there are those than can replace her. Rei is specifically referring to her clones, but Shinji isn't aware of this whatsoever. I can't remember for certain right now, but I believe she says something of the same vein just before the Ramiel battle in both continuities.

In Shinji's mind, Rei is belittling her own existence and claiming it as meaningless. However, in 2.22 he becomes adamant in his stance that there is only one Rei, and she can never be replaced (ironic, since he's ignorant of the fact that she has and can be cloned). So, his mentality is more akin to: "you cannot be replaced, because you're the one and only you," which still has the same message to the audience.

[Kendrix]

I'm less inclined to think it's even that.

Rei says that Shinji shouldn't bother to save her because there are those than can replace her. Rei is specifically referring to her clones, but Shinji isn't aware of this whatsoever. I can't remember for certain right now, but I believe she says something of the same vein just before the Ramiel battle in both continuities.

In Shinji's mind, Rei is belittling her own existence and claiming it as meaningless. However, in 2.22 he becomes adamant in his stance that there is only one Rei, and she can never be replaced (ironic, since he's ignorant of the fact that she has and can be cloned). So, his mentality is more akin to: "you cannot be replaced, because you're the one and only you," which still has the same message to the audience.

Yes, he isn't aware of the actual facts behind her claim,but that he doesn't even ask probably means he doesn't care.(Not that he wouldn't be shocked if you told him, but in in that moment, he wasn't thinking so far. ) He isn't giving a rational argument/answer, he's more replying to her on an emotional level.
It certainly has the effect of "I luv u just like u are" on Rei, she is downright shocked. (Not in an "Eh, But I don't want to be saved" way, (she actively reaches for his hand/ her giant red form is seen actively turning her head to merge with EVA 01, directed at a shining, heart-like structure, no less. It's as creepy as it is romantic because that "blood vessel contruct" looks like some sort of waterflea... ) but in a "Heh? How is anyone doing such a thing for me?" way.)

He's sorta right - she can be cloned, but we already she woundn't be exactly the same. ("Why are all of us Ayanami Rei?" "Because the others call us that, that is the only reason", the following Dialogue makes it clear that their mindsets are somewhat different, the script says it best whe Shinji sees no III for the first time: "Her eyes have gone cold"... She is even drawn with somewhat narrower eyes (at least in the DC - she probably doesn't look any different it's just the typical Anime Trope of eye size being determined by the personality.), and it's a rarity when she fully opens them (Which is either a result of her being pissed at Gendo's or Kaworu's existence or an Echo from no II... (The tears, the part where she goes "...Ikari-kun.") In all other instances, they're half-closed) )

[Sailor Star Dust]

Kendrix: I understand comparisons are bound to happen between the the TV series and New Movie Edition, but... Rei, for example, having certain feelings in the TV series/EoE isn't going to be carried over to the New Movie Version and vice-versa. You have a tendency to compare the TV series to the new films with examples that don't exactly match up 1:1 (especially considering the story's only halfway through!), so it's good to keep that in mind, I think. The new film series IS a different ballgame and continuity from the TV series so emotions/motivations aren't going to be the same and examples given won't always fit.

I agree that Shinji was obviously speaking out of emotion (considering his state of mind at the time, that whole sequence was him driven on pure emotion), but Shinji has no way of knowing Rei literally can be replaced. Shinji did seem to take Rei's words as Rei belittling herself and not anything deeper. Granted, Shinji probably would still mean that another Rei/a replacement wouldn't be the same Rei/not the Rei HE knows... but I doubt don't knowledge of Rei having clones would freak Shinji out.

[TheFriskyIan]

It's pretty safe to assume that in Evangelion 2.22 that Rei is still made up of Yui and Lilith. So while rewatching Evangelion 2.22 during the scene where Zeruel eats and absorbs Rei and Unit 0. There is little doubt that all of Rei's body got absorbed seeing as Zeruel grows some womenly parts. Which means that it's Rei's Soul that Shinji extracts from Zeruels core. But that's only half the battle since Rei needs a new body. Which brings me to my next point. Zeruel then turn's to blood and Shinji Himself uses that to reform a giant naked Rei which is then absorbed by Unit 01. This leaves the question of was Rei's DNA altered during this process? Seeing as Shinji was in God mode when all of this happened. He must have known Rei's current body was in poor shape.A point made very obvious when her dinner with Gendo consist of a drink and many pills, and seeing as the Angels themselves contain the fruit of life within them Shinji had all the ingredients to make a new more Healthy version of Rei. Infact with Shinji being omnipotent he must have learned that Rei contains his mothers DNA and if Shinji has any sort of romantic feelings for her he would surely want to fix that and make Rei's DNA unique with his God powers would he not? but this is only speculation on my part. for all I know her DNA could be completely the same or consist of,1/4 Yui 1/4Lilith and 1/2 Angel, or some other combination.That is my 2 cents on the matter. What do you all think of this, was her DNA changed? and if so how will it affect evangelion 3.0?

I'm confused.

[Kendrix]

Kendrix: I understand comparisons are bound to happen between the the TV series and New Movie Edition, but... Rei, for example, having certain feelings in the TV series/EoE isn't going to be carried over to the New Movie Version and vice-versa. You have a tendency to compare the TV series to the new films with examples that don't exactly match up 1:1 (especially considering the story's only halfway through!), so it's good to keep that in mind, I think. The new film series IS a different ballgame and continuity from the TV series so emotions/motivations aren't going to be the same and examples given won't always fit.

I agree that Shinji was obviously speaking out of emotion (considering his state of mind at the time, that whole sequence was him driven on pure emotion), but Shinji has no way of knowing Rei literally can be replaced. Shinji did seem to take Rei's words as Rei belittling herself and not anything deeper. Granted, Shinji probably would still mean that another Rei/a replacement wouldn't be the same Rei/not the Rei HE knows... but I doubt don't knowledge of Rei having clones would freak Shinji out.

I'm not douting that either, but his words show a "general direction" of how he sees her... He might get over the freakout fairly quickly if she's still alive when he finds out... (and depending on how much he finds out. I think the clone/angel thing will promt a huge O.O-expression but he'd get over it, she'd still be the person he spent all that time well. (See his reaction to Kaworu. He was more bothered with the fact that Kaworu "betrayed" him/is one of the "villains" than with the fact that he's one of these things that did nasty stuff to his friends...) Now, if he finds out about the Yui stuff, that's a very different pair of shoes, not just because of the incestuous implications but also because Yui is a concrete other person. )

[Sailor Star Dust]

Yeah, exactly.

Shinji probably wouldn't so much care about Rei being an Angel (well, Lilith) similar to how his interactions with Kaworu in NGE went, but when it comes to Yui and Rei is when things would get complicated.

That's part of the reason I'm so excited about Q, I think. I can't wait to finally see some potentially concrete interactions between Yui and Rei, let alone interactions between Shinji, Rei and Yui together (and how Shinji deals with said interactions). Exciting stuff.

[Sachi]

Shinji probably wouldn't so much care about Rei being an Angel (well, Lilith) similar to how his interactions with Kaworu in NGE went, but when it comes to Yui and Rei is when things would get complicated.

I disagree, to an extent. One of the primary conflicts for Shinji involving Kaworu was the clashing knowledge that Kaworu was an Angel but also had humanity. We see this in EoTV when he was being interrogated for his decision to kill Kaworu. ("Why'd you kill him?" "He was an Angel" "But he was human!" etc) This was a huge issue for Shinji; he did not take the knowledge very well at all.

[Kendrix]

. I can't wait to finally see some potentially concrete interactions between Yui and Rei, let alone interactions between Shinji, Rei and Yui together (and how Shinji deals with said interactions). Exciting stuff.

But keep in mind that there was little resembling actual "Dialogue" between the pilots and the ppl in the EVAs even in the original series. Most of episode 20 dealt with the contents of Shinji's head - the two instances where he had actual direct contact with Yui, things didn't go beyond him recognizing her for who she was and him getting a vague impression of her...
Also, Sadamoto putting actual, normal dialogue in there sort of... ruined the magic for me...
The most we can hope for is a vague, cryptic exchange between the two women(For example, Yui telling Rei to take care of Gendo and Shinji...?), no big explanations or anything...
And as the "Name decisicion" bit was already in 1.0, they might've have something different planned... I still hope they'll keep the "Anywhere could be paradise" quote, that's one of my favourites. I wouldn't be depressed if it got cut out, but I'd be happy to hear it...

@Sachi: What he did not take well was to eliminate someone he percieved as human like he'd done it with your average Adamian lifeform.
In that scene, Rei shows up and says "Even tough he was human like me?"
He percieved both of them as the people he had talked and smiled with, which is why eliminating Kaworu like an angel put him in a "Does-not-compute-state " (One can assume that he was passively sitting in the corner just like in EoE...) since he had, by his own standarts, killed a human. EoE!Shinji also lists Kaworu amongst the ppl he hurt, naming him along with Asuka.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Sachi: Yeah, I mispoke (mistyped?).

Shinji did have issues with killing Kaworu and the Angel versus Lilin dichotomy. I meant that Shinji didn't seem to take issue with Kaworu being an Angel on whether it somehow effected their friendship; that part seemed to be a nonissue for him. He still considered Kaworu his friend and loved him despite that. (Although perhaps that's from the Eva2 game angle and not exactly the series.)

Hopefully that's more clear.

Kendrix: I think the fact that Episode 16 events were skipped and Episode 20 events didn't occur yet means the content of any 3.0 mindscrews are going to be a blend of the two sequences (with its own original material). We'll see of course, that's just my thoughts.

[Jornophelanthas]

Kendrix: I understand comparisons are bound to happen between the the TV series and New Movie Edition, but... Rei, for example, having certain feelings in the TV series/EoE isn't going to be carried over to the New Movie Version and vice-versa. You have a tendency to compare the TV series to the new films with examples that don't exactly match up 1:1 (especially considering the story's only halfway through!), so it's good to keep that in mind, I think. The new film series IS a different ballgame and continuity from the TV series so emotions/motivations aren't going to be the same and examples given won't always fit.

I agree with most of Kendrix' comparison here, despite the obvious difficulty in making the comparison.

Specifically, I would argue that if Shinji had NOT saved Rei in Rebuild 2.0, she would have been resurrected in a new clone body and become "Rei III", just like in NGE.

However, this did not happen. Shinji's effort saved Rei ("II")'s personality and memories, preventing the need for the cold personality of "Rei III".

The finale of Rebuild 2.0 is a clear departure from NGE continuity in this respect (as well as in many other ways). While "Rei III" may still be introduced in some way at some point (if at all), the prolonged existence of "Rei II" will have a significant, if not crucial impact on the storyline of Rebuild. (After all, if it wouldn't, then Shinji's role in the 2.0 finale was rather pointless, and that would be poor storytelling.)

[Warren Peace]

Rebuild actually progresses from the "why don't you try smiling?" moment this time, whereas in NGE, it was kinda just dropped. In the new story, the softening of her character flows from that scene. She accesses a new repertoire of emotions (or expressions, at least).

[Kendrix]

I agree with most of Kendrix' comparison here, despite the obvious difficulty in making the comparison.

Specifically, I would argue that if Shinji had NOT saved Rei in Rebuild 2.0, she would have been resurrected in a new clone body and become "Rei III", just like in NGE.

However, this did not happen. Shinji's effort saved Rei ("II")'s personality and memories, preventing the need for the cold personality of "Rei III".

The finale of Rebuild 2.0 is a clear departure from NGE continuity in this respect (as well as in many other ways). While "Rei III" may still be introduced in some way at some point (if at all), the prolonged existence of "Rei II" will have a significant, if not crucial impact on the storyline of Rebuild. (After all, if it wouldn't, then Shinji's role in the 2.0 finale was rather pointless, and that would be poor storytelling.)

Yeah, there's a whole new character thrown into the mix of the last parts of the story that wasn't there before. If Mari isn't enough to throw stuff into dissaray, then Rei II will be... with her still alive, asn ending where the Ikaris reconcile still appears somewhat possible.
(With NGE being what it is, tough, redemption is likely to cost Gendo his head, tough. )

[Sailor Star Dust]

Rebuild actually progresses from the "why don't you try smiling?" moment this time, whereas in NGE, it was kinda just dropped. In the new story, the softening of her character flows from that scene. She accesses a new repertoire of emotions (or expressions, at least).

Yep yep.

For references sake, the 1.11 DVD/BD booklet (similar to the official Japanese Eva 1.0 website information but slightly different) states this about Rei:

Rei Ayanami
"The First Girl", who continually took part in the on-board tests with Eva Unit-00. A taciturn girl, who shows little emotion, there is something about her that feels artificial.
Japanese Voice: Megumi Hayashibara/English Voice: Brina Palencia

While the 2.22 DVD/BD booklet (the information which comes from the official Japanese Eva 2.0 website) states this:

Rei Ayanami
"The First Girl", who pilots Eva Unit-00 (Modified). A taciturn girl who often strikes others as somewhat artificial. After she learns what it is to smile, her heart begins to change.
Japanese Voice: Megumi Hayashibara/English Voice: Brina Palencia

It is nice that they actually went somewhere with Rei's smile (rather, Rei did) instead of Rei not progressing as much as quickly in NGE.

Jornophelanthas: No doubt that Rei 2 still living will impact the story. That's what makes things interesting after all. :) Funny enough, one of the Complete Records Collection interviews state that part of the reason it was decided to have Rei 2 saved by Shinji (besides it being a suggestion of Enokido as well as the sequence visually being a reference (link) to Utena (image)/Ultraman (image)) was because they felt that with NGE, they weren't able to reach their destination/goal with Rei 3. So things are certainly going to turn out to be interesting, whether or not we receive a Rei 3 in some form within New Movie Edition.

[CORE]

What atmosphere would you say is the strongest in Alt reality.
I would say Bubbling or Bursting emotions .. Bursting being the source abbreviated to Quickening .. Q Movie 3

I would get prepared to only see Shinji in Alt reality from now on and maybe thats where the 3rd encounter with Rei will exist as well. I think thats why he was not in the trailer.
the final episodes of TVs real life elements (screenshots/photos)&/alt reality and promotional live action sequences for EOE i think is what they will do in a new way this time.

Shinji is a real boy now. But every one els from his perspective is living in their own fantasy. So bubbles need to be bursted/played with. So i would say Rei 3 body is strong and can take some ruff times ahead in one reality or another.

who framed roger rabbit Rei... ?

[Kendrix]

One thing that I liked about the movie is that once Rei says "Thank you" for the first time and is shown sorta regretting not having used it before, she starts to use it a lot, it sorta becomes her prefered way to signal others that they did something very important for her. She has so far said it to each of her fellow pilots except Kaworu whom she hasn't met yet.
When Asuka volunteers for EVA 03 and thus allows Rei to hold her party, Rei first has to think a little before the right words occur to her. When Mari helps her in her strife to protect her loving ones, Rei says it imediately while she is in the process of throwing EVA 02 out of the battlefield.
You see more of it having a... gradual effect on her, I think.
Or maybe Rei's development just SEEMS more consistent because they shortened the action arc quite a lot...

[Jornophelanthas]

One thing that I liked about the movie is that once Rei says "Thank you" for the first time and is shown sorta regretting not having used it before, she starts to use it a lot, it sorta becomes her prefered way to signal others that they did something very important for her. She has so far said it to each of her fellow pilots except Kaworu whom she hasn't met yet.
When Asuka volunteers for EVA 03 and thus allows Rei to hold her party, Rei first has to think a little before the right words occur to her. When Mari helps her in her strife to protect her loving ones, Rei says it imediately while she is in the process of throwing EVA 02 out of the battlefield.
You see more of it having a... gradual effect on her, I think.
Or maybe Rei's development just SEEMS more consistent because they shortened the action arc quite a lot...

Interestingly, Rei has not said "thank you" or "arigato" to that other Ikari person who is so important to her. She even admits this as she ponders the impact of "thank you", yet she still has not actually thanked Gendo for anything.

This invites a prediction for the future movies, of course:

I predict that the very last thing Rei will say to Gendo will be "thank you". I also predict that "arigato" will be her very last line. I also predict that "arigato" will be the very last line of the very last movie. These three may or may not coincide with one another in any combination.

"Arigato" would give a nice contrast to "Tadaima" as Rei Ayanami's famous last words.

After all, the former would mean something like "Thank you for letting me experience human life", while the latter gave a far more detached message: "I am shedding my human life and will not look back".

[Sailor Star Dust]

For whatever it's worth, in the Eva2 video game, when Rei returns to Lilith and dies (for her best end ), she thanks Gendo before leaving. Her exact last words to him are (click both links for images): "Commander Ikari, thank you for your human heart. Goodbye (Sayonara)."

So yes, I'd say it's VERY possible Rei's final words to Gendo could/would be "thank you" as well as her final words in general.

[Kendrix]

Note that you play as Rei II all the time in EVA 2.


I always thought that the sad look of realization we see after Rei sees a flash of Gendo before he death is related to the fact that she never got to thank him for being alive (She wouldn't imagine him gently smiling if she was thinking something like "Wait, that bastard doesn't care about me", also, think of Rei IIs brief appearance in EoE.) - of course, then Rei III comes along who is outright pissed because he made her exist...
She sorta moves her eyes to the side/casts them down when she talks about not having thanked Gendo. She might be regretting it. Before she met Shinji, she never saw life as anything particulary good one should be happy for - She did not actively seek to die like her sucessor, but she saw no reason NOT to risk her life when the situation asked for it. Later, she began to appreciate life - but she kicked the bucket before she could thank Gendo for it...

[Temjin]

I always thought that the sad look of realization we see after Rei sees a flash of Gendo before he death is related to the fact that she never got to thank him for being alive

That's really good. I always wondered why she thought of him right before her death, especially since she was sacrificing herself for Shinji's sake at the time. Now that scene will make a lot more sense when I watch it, thanks.