Split: Mari and Kaworu's relationship speculation.

[Warren Peace]

The 2.22 Booklet claims both Mari and Kaworu are wearing "later generation plugsuits" compared to the rest of the pilots...

Perhaps a small sign that Mari Kaworu are (at least loosely) on the same side?

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Perhaps a small sign that Mari Kaworu are (at least loosely) on the same side?

What about when you take into consideration Kaworu's "Mark 6" and Mari's "The Beast" as if they were references to "The Mark of the Beast" which is described in The Book of Revelation chapter 13 verse 18 as being "666".

Here is wisdom let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

But that would be going off topic...

[Eva 04]

I dont know. Kawrou works for Seele,doesnt he? I dont think Mari is working for them. So saying they're on the same side is kind of a stretch.

[Sailor Star Dust]

But that would be going off topic...

Not anymore it's not.

Speculate to your heart's content on what you think their relationship is (if any)!

Personally I get the feeling that Mari and Kaji's organization is some anti-Seele or anti-Human Instrumentality Project organization (a nice contrast to Kaworu still being directly connected with Seele), but certain things about the organization seem sketchy at best... Whether or not even IPEA is their organization, I guess it's an unknown so far: http://wiki.evageeks.org/IPEA

To post a discussion between myself and Reichu from teh weekee:

Just to clarify: the 2.0 CRC book says nothing about how IPEA relates to Seele, only that IPEA's an independent organization from Nerv? (For instance, there's some theory floating around that perhaps IPEA is indeed Mari and Kaji's organization. And that perhaps IPEA is an anti-Third Impact/Instrumentality organization, thus they're trying to stop Seele's plans--but I have no idea if these theories are grounded in anything. >_>) Thanks~ --Sailor Star Dust 16:49, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

CRC isn't really a compilation of convenient factoids. If you can't extract information from the images (and their kanji salad captions, and the indecipherable chicken scratch of concept designers and animators) or the interviews, you're out of luck.

I got the "independent from Nerv" bit from the fact that the Eva containment silo area has a big line saying ABOVE THIS LINE JURISDICTION OF NERV and BELOW THIS LINE JURISDICTION OF UN IPEA (something like that). I'll upload the screenshot now that I have it labeled.

Regarding their function, playing some role in implementing the Vatican Treaty sounds like a sound bet, so I suppose they could be anti-3I as a corollary of that. What's up with their logo, though...? The similarity to Eva Unit God (and Adam from the original show) is pretty suspicious. I can't for the life of me decipher what the orb zipping around the giant is supposed to represent. --Reichu 21:34, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Still, I really love the idea of both "rogue elements" Kaworu and Mari being on opposing sides and agendas but still having to (maybe, depending on the remaining 2 or 3 Angel battles...and if Kaworu himself is still one!) work together as pilots.... Damn, it's an excellent setup for character interaction and drama, hopefully Khara will (not) disappoint!

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I dont know. Kawrou works for Seele,doesnt he? I dont think Mari is working for them. So saying they're on the same side is kind of a stretch.

well, SEELE kinda oversees NERV overseeing some of the the Eva construction, so I doubt elements like "Beast Mode" and "Mark 6" were coincidences. I do agree now that I think about it that Mari can't be working for SEELE, or at least it seems apparent that she's off on her own thing and that a lot of the stuff at the end wasn't according to SEELE's plan. But I can't dismiss that SEELE didn't name it the "Mark 6" for a reason. I'm also sure that SEELE knew of the "Beast Mode", seeing as how they're behind the Eva constructions and such, though I'm pretty sure they didn't intend for "The Beast" to arrive so soon.

EDIT: Thanks SSD!

[Kendrix]

Mari has, so far, appeared to be working only for herself, forging alliances with verious factions whenever it couldn't be avoided - this includes other rogue elements, if "organized" ones, like Kaji.
A deal with Kaworu doesn't seem unlikely - unofficial materials often depict them together, there may or may not be a reason.
They're probably only loosely allied, tough they might think of each other as intresting people.
Their plugsuits DO look similar, as in, they have those white spike ish things and bulky wrist pieces. Kaworu's suit underwent a major design overhaul. It's still black/dark blue, but that's as far a similarities to his old one go. Note that while Asuka gets a new suit, her wrist pieces retain the disk-ish look ones worn by the other NERV children.
Also, they did prepare themselves before Zeruels actual arrival, at exactly the same time - Kaworu probably has acces to the scrolls, but who told Mari? (Of course, it could also have been Kaji or any other nebulous ppl she's allied with.)

About the Number of the beast thing: Does Anno know about the 616 thing? Would he not rather use the more widely known alternative, if most religious references are mainly for the lulz? 666 was already used in EoE, and Kaworu IS something like a "Fallen Angel" in that he defies the destiny of angels by using his free will.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

About the Number of the beast thing: Does Anno know about the 616 thing? Would he not rather use the more widely known alternative, if most religious references are mainly for the lulz? 666 was already used in EoE, and Kaworu IS something like a "Fallen Angel" in that he defies the destiny of angels by using his free will.

The 616 was only found in one other manuscript. All of the other ones said it was 666. I'm not sure why Anno uses it other than the fact that 666 has always dealt with the end times or devils or things like that. In scripture the Mark of the Beast is 666 as an alternative mark than the Christian Mark of 7, the number symbolizing completion and perfection. (The 7th day marking the resting period after God's 6 day creation in the book of Genesis.) I'm not sure if Anno used the number 7 in either of his Evangelion mythologies.

[Gendo'sPapa]

There's no relationship between Kaworu & Mari. Both pilots just started piloting further along in the new series chronology & they get to wear the newest versions (at least 3rd) of the Plugsuit. Presumably Mari wore the first version, or a makeshift one, when she defeats the 3rd Angel.

I would NOT be surprised if come 3.0 Asuka, Shinji, & Rei (one of them at least) will all get to wear brand-spanking new plugsuits in similar design to the one's on Mari & Kaworu.

...if only for the millions of yen to be made from little figurines we fans will buy. .... I shamefully know I will.

[Reichu]

Presumably Mari wore the first version, or a makeshift one, when she defeats the 3rd Angel.

FWIW, the full designation of Mari's first suit is Customized Entry Plug Suit (Old Type).

[Tabby-chan]

I never thought of that. You know, "Mark.06" and 666. However, I am told that "Mark.XX" refers to "Model: XX" by all military means. So this may be a double coinsidence.

Anyhow, I do like the new plugsuits. I've noticed that in Tabris' case, her particular plugsuit features clawlike distincions. Exactly what purpose these serve, I don't know. However, it is commonly expressed that claws are symbolic of demons and such. Ai'nt she just da' lil' devil...?

As I was saying, I don't really see how it's fitting to have Tabris, an Angel, in a demonlike plugsuit.

In the Bible, there is a mention of the Moon falling down. Given that our Tabris here is commonly depicted with the Lunar giant, it doesn't particularly surprise me that she came down at the end of 2.22. Just more and more prophecy from GAiNAX.

...I love this. Totally.

[Sailor Star Dust]

There was already some "new plugsuit" talk on the third page of here, a few days ago: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=10197 (Maybe there should be a split, I dunno).

Tabby-chan: "Her" and "she", eh? Are you a Fem-Kaworu supporter? Or do you agree that Adam=female (and the Angel's mother)?

Even still, it's hard to say whether Kaworu and Rei fit their respective mythology from the series or if NME is going to play around with that somehow (Rei could still have Lilith's soul but it's hard to say, while Adam splitting in four or whatever the hell happened during Second Impact is just confusing).

I don't doubt that Kaworu's still an Angel though (and that Seele is banking on him to do whatever their dirty work is this time around, but perhaps it's more mutual instead of a potential double-crossing/whatever-it-was like in the series? Eh, another unknown). But whether or not he's designated as Tabris or still relates to Adam/the Adam(s) is anybody's guess at this point.

[Tabby-chan]

Tabby-chan: "Her" and "she", eh? Are you a Fem-Kaworu supporter? Or do you agree that Adam=female (and the Angel's mother)?


I don't doubt that Kaworu's still an Angel though (and that Seele is banking on him to do whatever their dirty work is this time around, but perhaps it's more mutual instead of a potential double-crossing/whatever-it-was like in the series? Eh, another unknown). But whether or not he's designated as Tabris or still relates to Adam/the Adam(s) is anybody's guess at this point.

I'm not sure where you pulled the idea that Tabris WASN'T a girl by all means. Yes, I totally support the knowledge that Adam is a girl. But I also like the idea that there can be epic Shinji/Tabris yuri.

Anyhow, what I'm not getting is why she WOULDN'T be an Angel. That should be a no-brainer.[/quote]

[Mr. Tines]

I'm not sure where you pulled the idea that Tabris WASN'T a girl by all means.

The "Kaworu is a girl (with her vulvae on her palms)" meme got shot down by the full-on, all-BL all the time original drafts of episode 24.

[Reichu]

The "Kaworu is a girl (with her vulvae on her palms)" meme got shot down by the full-on, all-BL all the time original drafts of episode 24.

How do preliminary drafts shoot down fem-Kaworu in some way that the final product doesn't? :p And besides, it's not as though memes' existences depend upon being justifiable by virtue of having "sufficient ambiguity" (whatever that is) to breathe.

[CORE]

The "Kaworu is a girl (with her vulvae on her palms)" meme got shot down by the full-on, all-BL all the time original drafts of episode 24.

Genderless angel is probably one of the ideas that made kaworu be created in the first place.
with.

Alt Rei
EoE Asuka
and Kaworu
all in 3.0

i would expect more exploration of the Kaworu Rei split than Kaworu on his own. One way to speed things up is merge characters interactions.. just like what they did in EoE.

Also Kaworu not appearing in the congratulations end moments in the original series is on of the biggest questions in Evangelion so i expect that also.
Kaworu is probably just a Rei exposed to too much solar radiation.