Evangelion 2.0 CRC: Anno Interview

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[Nonoriri]

Anno admits that Hashimoto's blood wave is superior to that fugly cg abortion sahaquiel.

lol

[Monk Ed]

'Can't show a female getting hit, but as far as getting directly chomped in the mouth of a monster, screaming, blood everywhere, and laid out on a slab like Darth Vader, dismembered and on life support...

I don't remember seeing Asuka visibly dismembered, and the blood that sprayed from the entry plug was the Angel's. There's no clear evidence she was injured at all by the chomp in particular as opposed to just what she would have lost anyway to Bardiel.

[Brainman]

I don't remember seeing Asuka visibly dismembered

You don't have to. Haven't you ever heard the notion that it's often what you don't see that's more horrifying? You can imagine the panic inside the plug and if we assume the connection is still active, she may be feeling everything that's happening.

That's kind of the bug biting the back of my brain regarding 2.0. It's that the movie glosses over what the effect on Asuka was. What happens is terrible, but the primary victim is never really addressed. Maybe they're saving it for later, but it makes the finished film's spirit seem rather cold and uncaring.

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[1731298478]

EDIT: I'm curious, who's the Interviewer? He/she seems personally familiar with Anno based on the previous interview parts (eg: seeing the rough version of the film alongside Anno and the others).

According to the information here, the interviewer is Ryusuke Hikawa (氷川竜介).

[Mr. Tines]

Maybe that's the name of a specific dragon in _Narutaru_?

Getting the phonetic readings from Google of Ryuuguu or Ryuu Miya threw no further light on the subject either; but googling "narutaru palace dragon king" got this link

The Tamai characters (玉依), with the second one read as “yori” instead of “i” (thus: tamayori) refer to the Shinto divine brides, i.e. the women who channel deities in traditional Japan. These are most commonly known as “miko”. You might remember the little girl Miyako in Ghost Hound…she was a miko or tamayori.

Anyway, this word “tamayori” was originally a proper noun, referring to a divine princess and daughter of the god Watatsumi. Watatsumi is most often known as Ryujin, the Dragon Lord.

and

The full-grown dragon that rescues Shiina in chapter 2 (“virgin princess” in the translation) is named Otohime in the original. Otohime was the big sister of Tamayori-hime (whose name matches Shiina’s surname), both daughters of the Dragon King.

so Anno may be referring to this Shadow Dragon

http://coolwallpaper.com/Gallery/Anime/Narutaru%20%28Shadow%20Star%29/Narutaru%20%28Shadow%20Star%295623-1024x768.html

[SaltyJoe]

Reading of such squeamishness to show a female form in that of evolved Zeruel being mercilessly attacked on screen while still having what happens to Asuka happen seemed a bit... odd. Perhaps they really didn't have an idea of just how brutal the process and treatment of her injuries would seem to viewers using any degree of imagination or empathy. 'Can't show a female getting hit, but as far as getting directly chomped in the mouth of a monster, screaming, blood everywhere, and laid out on a slab like Darth Vader, dismembered and on life support... yeah that's okay for our audience.'

I think the main difference lies in that depicting Zeruel getting smacked by Eva-01 would imply Shinji himself, via proxy, hitting a "woman" with his own hands.

He had a strong negative reaction, saying that, even if it is not a woman in terms of the settei, the male protagonist will be striking something that can only appear [to the viewer] as a woman, and that he was unable to direct or depict that.

Shinji had no active role in Asuka's maiming (in fact, another bit from the interview confirms that the idea was to depict him as completely helpless): it was done by a piece of hardware that ultimately has no moral character that needs to be preserved. Komatsuda's issue seems to be that having the main guy, the "hero" hit a girl is immoral.

Though his attitude does speak of a certain squeamishness about violence committed against female characters. Returning to the topic of Asuka's fate, maybe this attitude is one of the reasons why, for certain viewers like myself, there seems to be a gap between the depiction of things before and after the affair and how it's all treated: maybe the creators honestly thought that "bad thing happens to cute girl" is sufficiently tragic regardless of buildup, thus making Shinji's reaction self-evident, at least in their view.

On another note, I really wish that Anno would drop the hyper-democratic approach. Collaboration can be nice, sure, but if everyone gets a say in everything then no wonder they have trouble getting things done even if they have years to do so.

Once again, many thanks for the translations!

[Warren Peace]

I don't know why Asuka's off-screen violence should be equated with the on-screen violence of striking the woman-esque Angel. Again, it's not the content, it's the depiction (it may also be why that weird face-ripping bit was nixed -- definitely a good thing, in my view). It's perfectly consistent to be OK with the hidden violence of the Asuka scene while disliking explicit (human) depictions.

[rockjammer]

hearing anno's discourse on the angels is really interesting...it also makes me excited to see the form the next few will take, especially since the ones later on in the series were for the most part intangible. still, i am a little concerned by anno's ever changing ideas about what exactly rebuild should be: from his earlier statements (not in the interview) that the movies would depict Eva the way he originally intended it to his statement in the interview that he originally wanted 1.0 to follow the series almost exactly to his new 2.0 attitude of mixing it up to the max. while i am quite pleased at the direction the movies are taking it seems pretty certain at this point that nothing is written in stone and we as well as anno don't know what to expect next. at best 3.0 and 4.0 will be totally fresh and thought provoking; at worst people might say that Rebuild, like the original series, was flawed. then what would be next? rebuild of rebuild?

[Joe]

then what would be next? rebuild of rebuild?

End of rebuild of Evangelion first.

[Brainman]

at worst people might say that Rebuild, like the original series, was flawed.

That's already what I'm saying.

[Xous]

It's cool to hear Anno talk about the new Angels. They're one of the main reasons I watch Evangelion so getting any details on them, especially from the main face of the series, is appreciated. There wasn't anything extremely interesting, but calling the third Angel's movement "cute" was neat. It did feel that way to me so I'm glad Anno saw it the same way.

[1731298478]

Getting the phonetic readings from Google of Ryuuguu or Ryuu Miya threw no further light on the subject either; but googling "narutaru palace dragon king" got this link [...] and [...] so Anno may be referring to this Shadow Dragon [...]

I looked through Narutaru a bit, and while I did find a couple of uses of the term ryuuguu (竜宮) (at the end of chapter 10, and in chapter 45), the uses are more or less metaphorical and don't throw any light on Anno's comment. However, I realized reading it that ryuuguu (竜宮) could well be a typo for ryuugai (竜骸), the word which is rendered in English as "shadow dragon." (The "gai" of ryuugai means "empty shell," and is also used in the full title as mukuro: 骸なる星 珠たる子.) Since 竜骸 is not a "real" word, there could easily have been a mistake entering it, and unless there's something I'm still missing, I'm going to assume that was the case.

[Kendrix]

I hope they fire the sexist Director, really.


This time it worked out fine because the "angel wig" looks cooler than a stereotypical superheromask would've done, but I'm afraid what this would mean for Q.
First, this is EVA. I expect from it things that are painful to watch and challenge my understanding/standarts, not that it shuns away from showing such images.
Secondly, if there's someone up there with the notion that prettiness is not to be tarnished, I get seriously worried that the female characters might not get their potential fully realized.
They fight, they get dirty and take damage.
If girls aren't allowed to get dirty/injured, they will necessarily get less action scenes.

I mean, Shinji is in the process of accidentaly blowing the world up to save a love interest he's unknowingly related to, and that guy thinks the most potentially offensive/"wrong" looking thing about the scene is that the enemy vaguely resembles a human female?
What fucked-up kind of double standard is that?

That said, I did not get any feeling that the girls (or things that vaguely look like girl)were being treated with kid gloves in the movie itself, if you look at Mari's two battles and Shinji in the Sahaquiel fight, there's about equal quantities of the pilots being grilled, and Mari gets totally covered in blood with her face partially distorted during the beast mode scene...

---

On another note, I find it curious that a scene as iconic and beloved as the Angel-nomming got thrown out relatively early.

Still, thank you, Number-kun, it's great to see that you finally had the time to go back to translating this. Will the updates be more frequent now, or were you just lucky to find some time to squeeze this one in?

[1731298478]

Will the updates be more frequent now, or were you just lucky to find some time to squeeze this one in?

A little bit of both, I think ^^ Hopefully they will become more frequent, but I won't give up on the translation.

Here's my attempt at part 10 of Anno's interview. As usual, please forgive mistakes. There were a few parts here that I struggled with, so corrections and suggestions are highly appreciated.

The term sakkan is short for sakuga kantoku and is explained here. The term uchiawase refers to a meeting held to work out some aspect of the production.

For more information on the model Anno supervised the design of, see this page (scroll down a little).

For the name of Kaworu's spear, see this thread.

Edit: I have incorporated corrections suggested by symbv. Thanks very, very much to him!!

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『破』で変化するEVAのデザイン

The Eva designs change with "Break"

－Dパートの新展開としては、マリが起動するEVA２号機の第２獣化形態「ザ・ビースト」があります。あれはどのように決めたものですか？

- In part D, there is a new development where Mari activates Unit-02's bestialized form, "the beast." How did you decide upon that?

庵野 ２号機の暴走はやりたかったんです。けど初号機と同じじゃつまらない。そこで何かないか、というときに出てきました。中身はシンちゃんと山下君のアイデアを足したものですね。身体から制御棒が出てくることでエヴァが開放されて獣になるのは、山下君だったと思います。怪獣の背びれみたいに増やしたりしたのはシンちゃんのボードだったかな。そのあたりは、ちょっと記憶が曖昧ですね。

Anno: I wanted Unit-02 to go out of control, but it would be dull if it was just the same as with Unit-01. So [the concept] arose when I asked for suggestions. It combined ideas from Shin-chan and Yamashita-kun.　I think it was Yamashita-kun [who came up with the idea of] an Eva being liberated by the control rods coming out of its body. The addition [of the structure of the rods] resembling the dorsal fin of a monster, and other things, [was made], I think, in Shin-chan's image boards. My memories of that period are a little unclear.

「ヒトを捨てる表現、その戦い」というのは難しいですね。作画の良さで、何とかしてもらっています。ホント、２号機の作画はスケジュールのない中で、良くできてます。すごく、いいですね。さすがです。

The struggle to depict the [Eva's] abandonment of humanity was [surely] difficult. I got [some people] to do something about it by way of deploying good sakuga. Really, they did an excellent job, with no time for Unit-02's sakuga on the schedule. Incredible. As is typical of them.

―Mark.06のデザインは、『序』の「予告」とは少し変わっているのでしょうか。

- It seems that the design of Mark.06 is a bit different than it was in the preview [at the end] of "Prelude."

庵野 基本的は同じです。６号機のデザインは『序』の作業中にだいたい、できてましたね。今回はバランス的ちょっと修正を入れた程度です。カラーリングも最初から農青で決めていました。

Anno: It's fundamentally the same. The design of Unit-06 was more or less completed during work on "Prelude." For this film, only a few balance-related adjustments were made. The dark blue coloring, too, was decided upon from the outset.

―カヲルが乗るという前提のEVAですようね。

- This was the Eva that you intended Kaworu to pilot.

庵野 ええ。最初の脚本はもっと派手な登場も考えていたんですが、あれくらい静かな方がシーン的にはいいかなと。

Anno: Yeah. In the earliest version of the script I thought he would make a showier entrance, but [in the end] I felt having him be so quiet was better for the scene.

―月面基地で見える槍は、ラストシーンに出てくるのと同じものですよね。

- The lance we see at the lunar base is the same one that appears in the final scene.

庵野 ええ。カバーをつけているので伏線としては分かりづらいと思うのですが、あのくらいがいいかなと。槍には名称もあって、それがラストのカヲルのセリフで出てくるはずだったんですが、それまでの流れが変わったので入らなくなりました。それでも、第１５稿まではカヲルがあれこれ語っていたんですが、最終的な第１６稿でそのあたりは、全部削ってます。設定を語るだけじゃ、つまらなかったので。

Anno: Yeah. I think, because we covered it up, it was hard to understand as foreshadowing, but I thought that much was fine. The lance also has a name, which was supposed to appear in Kaworu's final dialogue. However, as the events of the story prior to that changed, it ended up not coming in. Even so, in the fifteenth draft, Kaworu was going to say a number of things. However, in the final sixteenth draft, that part was cut out entirely, because it was boring to have him just recite the settei.

―改めて、EVAのデザインはどうでしたか。

- How was it doing Eva design once more?

庵野　５号機はCGを前提にしていたので、最初から仮説という設定でした。なので、発注時から二足歩行型ではないと決まっていましたね。山下君との最初の打ち合わせでは、「走行はキャタピラにして起き上がると二足歩行に変わってもいいよ」と言ってた気がします。僕としてはCGで履帯のうねりや超信地旋回（※１８)をやってみたかったんですが、山下君から「それだと真ゲッター３と似てしまうからイヤだ」と却下されました（悲）。なので、四輪駆動のタイヤ走行です。こちらだと、ドリフトとかできて疾走感も出るから、それもいいかと。

Anno: I had determined in advance that Unit-05 would be done in CG, so from the beginning it had the settei of being provisional. Because of that, from the [design] requests onwards, it was decided that it would not be bipedal. At the initial uchiawase [for Unit-05] with Yamashita-kun, I said something like, it could move on caterpillar treads, and when it stands erect shift to bipedal movement as well. I wanted to try doing the rolling movement of ritai and pivot turns [18] in CG. However, that was rejected by Yamashita-kun, who said that he didn't want to do it because it would resemble Shin Getter-3 (sad expression). Due to that, it [was given] a four-wheel type of movement. That way, it could drift, and also convey a feeling of speeding along, so that was fine too, I thought.

※１８ 超信地旋回
戦車や重機などが左右に着地した履帯をまったく同じ速度で逆方向へ回転されることで、車体を前後左右に働かさずに旋回可能とする操縦法を指す。履帯は不整地走行を可能とする無限軌道のこと。クローラ、キャタピラなどの名称も呼ばれるが、一般に知られるキャタピラは登録商標である。

[18] Pivot Turn
Designates a maneuver where, by having the treads on both sides of a tank or piece of heavy machinery roll in opposite directions at exactly the same speed, the body can turn in any direction without moving [forwards or backwards]. Ritai refers to treads that allow the traversal of uneven ground. They are also called crawler or caterpillar [treads]; however, the widely known name "caterpillar" is a registered trademark.

携帯兵装ので格闘戦を避けたかったので、武器は突くだけの動作で済む槍（ランス）と万力にしています。ランスは対使徒兵器としてロンギナスの槍のイメージもあるし、運用を特化させた感じにもなるのでいいかなと。

Since I wanted to avoid having it fight hand-to-hand with [small] hand-held weapons, it was given a lance, which only had to thrust, and a claw as its weapons. As an anti-angel weapon, a lance had [something of] the image of the lance of Longinus, and it also made it feel like [Unit-05's] operation had been specialized, so I thought that would be good.

電源をトロリー方式（※１９）にするアイデアも山下君からですね。あれはビジュアル的にも変わっていて、これまた運用が基地内に特化されている感じがして良かったです。細かいディテールは山下君の作業後に僕が何度か追加しますた。モデリング修正の作業は大変だったと思います。申しわけないと思いながらも、仕方がなかったですね。

The idea of giving it power through a trolley system [19] also came from Yamashita-kun. That was good, as it also changed things visually, and again gave the feeling that [Unit-05's] operation had been specialized for [use] within the base. After Yamashita-kun's work had finished I added a few minor details. I believe the work of revising the model was terrible [for Yamashita]. Though I was sorry about that, there was nothing I could do.

※１９　トロリー方式
パンタグラフなど車両上部に集電装置を用意し、上部の架線から給電を受ける方式。架線集電方式とも呼ばれている。

[19] Trolley System
A system whereby electricity can be gathered from aerial wires using a power collector mounted on the roof of a train car, such as a pantograph. Also called "aerial wire power collection system."

カラーリングは本機体がユーロとロシア共同開発ということで、R型ミサイル（※２０）とユーロスターのイメージで分かりやすくまとめています。これもイメージはあっても配色のバランスがなかなか取れなくて悩んで、時間がかかりました。一度決定にしたんですが、どうにも色数が多くうるさかったので、配色を抑えて再度やり直してもらってます。ホント、ディジタル部には苦労をかけてます。

Since the main body was developed jointly by Europe and Russia, the coloring integrates the images of the R-type rocket [20] and the Eurostar in an easily understandable way. Even though we had this image [of integrating the R-type rocket and Eurostar] we struggled to achieve a balance in the color scheme and we ended up taking time. Although at one point we settled on a scheme, the large number of colors was annoying, so I asked [Yamashita] to redo it once more, toning down the coloring. The digital components really caused great difficulty.

※２０　R型ミサイル
ロシアの宇宙船ソユーズなどの打ち上げにはR-7型ミサイルを改良したA-2型ロケットが使用されている。

[20] R-type Missile
A modified version of the R-7 missile, the A-2 rocket, has been used for the launching of Russian spacecrafts such as the Soyuz.

２号機もせっかく新作にするのなら変えようと、『序』のころから考えてました。最初はシンプルにフィンというかアンテナを二本つけて頭の形状にメリハリを考えていたんですが、山下君に頼んだら、ちと変わり過ぎてしまい、最終調整を作監のシショー（本田雄の愛称）にお願いしました。で、出てきたのが艦首っぽいやつです。そのころ僕が「（宇宙戦艦）ヤマト」の造形デザインのプロデュースなど（※２１）をやっていたせいかもしれません（笑）。カラーリングは『序』の初号機や零号機に合わせてまとめています。腕の色で悩んだ記憶がありますね。今回初号機も胸部多層装甲板や脊椎カバーなどの色を、ちと変えています。腕のラインもシリーズ二本目ですから「帰ってきた」感じがほしいなと、線を一本足したりしてます。EVA全体プロポーションは本田君が自主的にこうしたい、と変えってましたね。６号機はさっき話したどうり、ほぼ『序』の「予告」と同じです。

Since [work on] "Prelude" I had been thinking that, if we were taking the trouble to make a new work, then I would change Unit-02['s design] as well. I thought to simply add a pair of fins or antenna to bring out [or alter?] the shape of the head, but when I gave it to Yamashita-kun, he changed [the design] a little too much, so I asked Shisho (Takeshi Honda's pet name), [serving as] a sakkan, to make the final adjustments. What resulted was like the bow of a warship. Maybe that was due to the fact that around that time I was producing the Yamato model design (laughs) [21]. The coloring was established to conform with [the style of] Unit-01 and Unit-00 in "Prelude." I remember having difficulties with the color of the arms. This time around - for Unit-01, as well - we changed the colors of things like the multi-layered chest armor plates and the spinal covering a little. For the arms, too, I added a stripe, thinking that since this was "series two" I wanted a "Return Of..." [kind of] feeling. Honda-kun changed the full-body proportions of the Evas of his own initiative, [in accordance with] how he wanted them to be. As a I mentioned earlier, Unit-06 was just about the same [in "Break"] as in the preview [at the end] of "Prelude."

※２１　「ヤマト」の造形デザインのプロデュース
庵野秀明が理想の宇宙戦艦ヤマト像を求め、真鍋正一原型により立体化を進めていたもの。バンダイビジュアルとバンダイ・ホビー事業部の協力のより、全長３０ｃｍでプラモデル化されて２００８年２月発売の『宇宙戦艦ヤマト TV DVD-BOX』の付録となった。リリース資料には監修者・庵野秀明の言葉としては以下のように記されている。「OP, 特に艦長室からキャメラが引いていくカットの画、ヤマト大図鑑モノクロ見開きと同じ第３話で飛び立つ横フルサイズの画、ヤマト大図鑑折り込みカラー大図鑑の画、冒険王３月号のカラー扉画等、僕の持ち続けていたヤマト船体のイメージを、ついに具現化出来た立体造形物です」

[21] Producing the Yamato Model Design
Hideaki Anno sought a [physical] image of his ideal Space Battleship Yamato, and realized it through a Shoichi Manabe prototype. Through the co-operation of the Bandai Visual and Bandai Hobby divisions [of Bandai], it was made into a 30cm long plastic model and included as an extra in the "Space Battleship Yamato TV DVD-Box," which went on sale in February 2008. In the release materials the following words of chief [model] supervisor Hideaki Anno are recorded. "With this model I was finally able to give form to the images I preserved [within myself] of the Yamato's hull - the image [of the Yamato] in the opening sequence, especially where the camera pulls back from the Captain's cabin; the full side-image of the Yamato as it launches in episode 3, and the identical double-page spread in black and white from the Yamato illustrated guide; the image from the full-color pullout from the the Yamato illustrated guide [?]; the color cover image from the March issue of Boken-o ["King of Adventure" manga magazine]; and so on."

―今回、プラグスーツも少しデザインが変わっていますね。

- The designs of the plugsuits changed a little bit this time around as well.

庵野　そうですね。お貞に頼んで少し変えてもらいました。画面の中にちょっとでも変わった感じを足したかったんですね。マリは一世代前と後、新旧二種類のスーツを着用させて他パイロットとの差別化を図っています。

Anno: Yeah. I entrusted it to O-Sada, and he changed them a bit for me. I wanted to add a different feeling onto the screen, even if only a little bit. With Mari, I aimed to distinguish her from the other pilots by having her wear two kinds of suits, a generation behind and a generation ahead, old and new.

[Kendrix]

Cool! Once again, thank you, Number-kun.

I thought one coolthing that was done to make Beast!Eva02 "inhuman2 was to have it "throw itself around" with the sheer force of one limb, so, it still had a basic humanoid appearance, but it didn't use it's body like anything humanoid.

Anno: Yeah. I entrusted it to O-Sado, and he changed them a bit for me. I wanted to add a different feeling onto the screen, even if only a little bit. With Mari, I aimed to distinguish her from the other pilots by having her wear two kinds of suits, a generation behind and a generation ahead, old and new.

So there's a chance that Asuka & Rei once wore suits in the vein of Mari's first one, but eventually grew out of them?

FridgeLogic: If the old suit is one she recently outgrew, that would imply that Mari's "assets" are a recent aquisition. then again, with her age, they couldn't be anything but recent XD


PS: That spaceship thingie looks awfully like the Exerion (aka "New Nautilus") from "Nadia" . It's probably inspired by the same source, I guess.

[Knuckles]

I thought Mari's age was unknown? I always assumed she was like 16 or older.

[Kendrix]

I thought Mari's age was unknown? I always assumed she was like 16 or older.

We don't know her exact age, but so far, we have haven't been given any reason to believe that the pilot age bracket of 13 to 15 is no longer mandatory.

While we don't know if Shinji's classmates are still potential candidates, at least the four pilots we know are still a suspiciously similar age.

So 14 or 15 seems the most plausible. Keep in mind that most girls have their main growth spurt a bit earlier than boys, it is fully possible for a 14 or 15 year old girl to have finished most her physical developement and have Mari's height and boob size. This happens. Usually gets the poor girl in question bullied. Happened to me. Except I was a lord shorter than Mari, and I've hardly grown since I was 14. :( My 12 year old sister outgrew me! I'm the eldest and the only one who's shorter than me is Jana, the four year old. And even she goes "Monke is short!" all the time. *sniff* If she would atleast pronounce my name properly. I'm not a monkey. My name is bad enough as it is! :( *emo cloud* (Which puts poor NGE!Shinji in the position that Asuka, while a bit younger, is still more "developed" than him for the greater part of the show. It's important to remember in certain scenes - still, those lazy animators! He should have outgrown her by the end of the show, especially when you consider his parents. Or maybe he had one really short grandparent?)

[StratoSakuya...AF]

We don't know her exact age, but so far, we have haven't been given any reason to believe that the pilot age bracket of 13 to 15 is no longer mandatory.

While we don't know if Shinji's classmates are still potential candidates, at least the four pilots we know are still a suspiciously similar age.

So 14 or 15 seems the most plausible. Keep in mind that most girls have their main growth spurt a bit earlier than boys, it is fully possible for a 14 or 15 year old girl to have finished most her physical developement and have Mari's height and boob size. This happens. Usually gets the poor girl in question bullied. Happened to me. Except I was a lord shorter than Mari, and I've hardly grown since I was 14. :( My 12 year old sister outgrew me! I'm the eldest and the only one who's shorter than me is Jana, the four year old. And even she goes "Monke is short!" all the time. *sniff* If she would atleast pronounce my name properly. I'm not a monkey. My name is bad enough as it is! :( *emo cloud* (Which puts poor NGE!Shinji in the position that Asuka, while a bit younger, is still more "developed" than him for the greater part of the show. It's important to remember in certain scenes - still, those lazy animators! He should have outgrown her by the end of the show, especially when you consider his parents. Or maybe he had one really short grandparent?)

Well, since Kaworu's birth date ain't given either, I'll assign both him and Mari older ages.

BTW Kendrix, that happened to me too, I had my growth spurt and finished at 14, but no bullies.