8th Angel ("Sahaquiel") and stigmata

[Jornophelanthas]

During the 8th Angel battle ("Sahaquiel", the one who drops from orbit), Shinji catches it with his/Unit-01's hands and holds it aloft until the others can finish it off. This causes severe burns to Unit-01's hands, and Shinji suffers similar damage inside the entry plug:
- We see his hands start to glow, reflecting the burns to Unit-01's body.
- Afterwards, Shinji's hands are bandaged (see the bedroom scene with Asuka).

Now, does this remind you of Christ's stigmata? It does to me. While I am no great expert on religious symbolism, perhaps all that is meant with this is establishing Shinji as a Christ figure.
Additionally, Rebuid regularly shows cross-shaped explosions when Angels are concerned. I believe these have less to do with referring to Christianity, but rather refer to symbolic meaning of the Christian concept of crucifixion.

(I am recalling here the scene in EoE, where Shinji and Unit-01 are encapsulated into the Tree of Life, which is portrayed as a crucifixion of Unit-01.)

Therefore, is this peculiar injury Shinji suffers perhaps a foreshadowing to him fulfilling a similar martyr role in the later Rebuild movies? Are there other details that may provide clues that point in the same direction? Or are there perhaps other clues that debunk this interpretation?

I look forward to any feedback from the other denizens of this forum.

[Azathoth]

This causes severe burns to Unit-01's hands,

It's not burns, gigantic fuckoff spiral drill bits or something come out of Sahaquiel's hands and pierce Yui's heavens. Shinji gets burned, because apparently the plugsuits are designed to translate Eva damage into pilot damage (lolwut)

Now, does this remind you of Christ's stigmata?

Not hugely. Anno uses hands as symbolic of agency, action, more so in Rebuild than ever. It should be clear enough what having scarred hands means...the fact that there's the potential for dat christianity is just a bonus, but ReShinji's stigmata are apparently every bit as ephemeral as those he sort of sustains in EoE - which is not to say he doesn't repeatedly fuck up his hands again.

Additionally, Rebuid regularly shows cross-shaped explosions when Angels are concerned. I believe these have less to do with referring to Christianity, but rather refer to symbolic meaning of the Christian concept of crucifixion.

Actually they refer to the symbolic meaning of "looks cool".

[A.T. Fish]

Not hugely. Anno uses hands as symbolic of agency, action, more so in Rebuild than ever. It should be clear enough what having scarred hands means...the fact that there's the potential for dat christianity is just a bonus, but ReShinji's stigmata are apparently every bit as ephemeral as those he sort of sustains in EoE - which is not to say he doesn't repeatedly fuck up his hands again.

I actually believe they had stigmata in mind when making the scene, the reference is very explicit with the palms of the hands being impaled, just like in every depiction of Jesus crucified. However, we've already been instructed that the religious stuff in Evangelion is not to be taken so seriously or overanalyzed, this one in particular, as I believe the depiction of the hands being impaled was added more for shock value than anything else.

[Azathoth]

I actually believe they had stigmata in mind when making the scene, the reference is very explicit with the palms of the hands being impaled, just like in every depiction of Jesus crucified.

Was Asuka's hand-piercing scene in EoE a crucifixion reference too? The only obvious instance in Eva of symbolically useful near-crucifixion (apart from the one who's, you know, actually crucified) is Unit 01 during EoE. Maybe if Unit 01 was being elevated, pierced in the side, crowned, or hanging during this scene, I'd buy that there's some symbolic meaning related to religion. As it is, I think that the chief point is to provide a visual illustration for Shinji's impotence during the upcoming bed scene with Asuka - too hurt from previous emotional contacts to even really pay attention to her, he can only try and cover the wounds over by talking about his past sufferings, instead. With his hands wounded, he doesn't take the active route and get his love on - not that he would have done that in any case, but you get the idea.

Then again, crucifixion has had a symbolic language long before it was in Eva: Biblically speaking, the piercing of Christ's hands can represent his powerlessness (or rather his inability to change his father's will, if you like) every bit as much as Shinji's spastic hand-twitch symbolizes his. So I suppose it could be that if you like.

[A.T. Fish]

Was Asuka's hand-piercing scene in EoE a crucifixion reference too? The only obvious instance in Eva of symbolically useful near-crucifixion (apart from the one who's, you know, actually crucified) is Unit 01 during EoE. Maybe if Unit 01 was being elevated, pierced in the side, crowned, or hanging during this scene, I'd buy that there's some symbolic meaning related to religion. As it is, I think that the chief point is to provide a visual illustration for Shinji's impotence during the upcoming bed scene with Asuka - too hurt from previous emotional contacts to even really pay attention to her, he can only try and cover the wounds over by talking about his past sufferings, instead. With his hands wounded, he doesn't take the active route and get his love on - not that he would have done that in any case, but you get the idea.

That is, in my humble opinion, overanalysis of the bed scene. If anything, that scene has much more to do with Asuka's lowering of her emotional shield and desire to overcome loneliness than Shinji's impotence in the bed (pun intended). If I recall correctly this is the scene where he asks the "why do you pilot Eva" question and realizes he's doing it for his father praise. He is just happy he was praised and never does he display lack of attention for Asuka (she actually warns him that she wants him to be quiet but he speaks to her anyway), he just has his mind on the relationship with his father at the time. The bandages on his hand are the natural consequence of the previous battle scene, and not exactly supposed to mean something greater than that. As for the hand impaling, it is just too explicit to be dismissed, it is indeed a reference to the wounds of Christ, but again, not supposed to mean something greater, just there as a visual shocking image that happens to have a religious connection.

[Jornophelanthas]

I actually believe they had stigmata in mind when making the scene, the reference is very explicit with the palms of the hands being impaled, just like in every depiction of Jesus crucified. However, we've already been instructed that the religious stuff in Evangelion is not to be taken so seriously or overanalyzed, this one in particular, as I believe the depiction of the hands being impaled was added more for shock value than anything else.

Actually they refer to the symbolic meaning of "looks cool".

Anno's confession that the christian symbolism (specifically Sachiel's cross-shaped explosions) were there for visual effect refers to the NGE series, and was stated in an interview that preceded Rebuild, I believe.

However, this does not mean that Rebuild lacks a meaning to this symbolism. It is a new version of the story, after all, with a far greater attention to detail than the original series. In fact, Rebuild appears to have expanded the allusions to Christian symbols in comparison to the NGE series. Take the significance of halos, for example, which is yet to be explained but clearly connected to Third Impact, as quoted from the characters themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I do not believe Anno tries to make any kind religious statement. I merely believe that he uses Christian symbolism to resonate with the story, in the same way that he uses the combat records of the historical warships named Ayanami, Makinami, Shikinami, Langley, Soryu, Graf Zeppelin and Illustrious, to tell us something about the role in the story of the character with the corresponding name(s).
(See the "Warships, pilot names and predictions" thread in this forum. If you have any comments on the warship interpretation, please respond to them there, and not in this thread.)

[Kendrix]

Uh, I didn't notice these at first - I guess I was to busy with the horrendous amount of Fingore. Hands being damaged is... disturbing - at it was pretty much turned up to Eleven - EVA 01s entire Arms were pierced - there was just the bones left in the Post-bellum shots.
Ouch.

However, since Shinji's glowing Hand got a close up and Stigmata were already used in EoE, we can assume that it was deliberate - Tough I doubt that that it serves any purpose beyond stressing Shinji's Role as the chosen one/messiah.
He has bandages because well, Shinji's synch rate is quite high and there's no way he could have gotten away with no physical damage when the EVAs Arms were reduced to nothing - that, and maybe "battle scars" as a sighn of maturation - Compare his behaviour in this battle to that seen in the Shamshel or Ramiel battles. He was way more composed/determined in this. He's not yet a man (the final ordeal has yet to come), but he's made some progress - I see the bed scene as mostly positive, the only thing you could berate him for is being too naive/thinking that everything will work out because he was praised once, but he's gotta be allowed to be happy when something good happens to him - He deliberately reaches out to Asuka/starts the conversation/asks her a question here, just as she is deliberately opening up to him/allowing him to call her by her first name and giving him a slightly less insulting nick name. (She had no way to know this, but this 'Daddy's Boy' sounds just so cruel when you know Shinji's backstory - and as 'Baka Shinji' includes his name, it also shows that she had begun to see/accept him as a person and not just an inept, annoying rival.)
They're still back-to-back/not looking at each other, but they're having a honest conversation.

The Halos are cool form of your typical 'glowing power'/a sighn for angelic beings, but I wouldn't read much more into it - Oh, and they're round, which means they can turn into impact/rainbow/black hole things.
The rainbows are everywhere and refer to the 'treaty' with Lillith (In the bible, they're a sighn for the promise that no disaster like the great flood will ever come again - great flood -> Second Impact)
And black holes are places where the rules of our world no longer apply (compare Ritsuko's Speech at the end: A Being that trancends the logos of ou world etc)

[Xard]

Not hugely. Anno uses hands as symbolic of agency, action, more so in Rebuild than ever.

huh.

I could've sworn Rebuild got rid of all hand motifs

[Azathoth]

I could've sworn Rebuild got rid of all hand motifs

There's not much in YANA as far as I remember but in YCNA it kicks into overdrive - what with this scene, the Dummy System literally using Shinji's hands to pilot Unit 01 while clamping down over them with bondage cuffs, Mari's fist-clenching before she goes beastmode, Unit 01's POWER WRIST, and of course the Utena rescue scene. There's probably some other stuff too, that's just what occurred to me off the top of my head.

[Kendrix]

There's not much in YANA as far as I remember but in YCNA it kicks into overdrive - what with this scene, the Dummy System literally using Shinji's hands to pilot Unit 01 while clamping down over them with bondage cuffs, Mari's fist-clenching before she goes beastmode, Unit 01's POWER WRIST, and of course the Utena rescue scene. There's probably some other stuff too, that's just what occurred to me off the top of my head.

They also keps the clenched fist from ep 19

[Xard]

There's not much in YANA as far as I remember but in YCNA it kicks into overdrive - what with this scene, the Dummy System literally using Shinji's hands to pilot Unit 01 while clamping down over them with bondage cuffs, Mari's fist-clenching before she goes beastmode, Unit 01's POWER WRIST, and of course the Utena rescue scene. There's probably some other stuff too, that's just what occurred to me off the top of my head.

Those hardly form coherent whole and can be explained away, unlike the hand motif in NGE

[Reichu]

EVA 01s entire Arms were pierced - there was just the bones left in the Post-bellum shots.

The rest of the arms splitting apart was due to the incredible pressure (or whatever). (The arms burst open in NGE, as well, though it was a detail possible to miss in that iteration.)

[Kendrix]

The rest of the arms splitting apart was due to the incredible pressure (or whatever). (The arms burst open in NGE, as well, though it was a detail possible to miss in that iteration.)

Oh... I thought the spikes went through the entire lower arm, but nah.
The splitting Arms were something they made more obvious so we wouldn't miss it - Like Shinji being in a complete DO NO WANT mode in 19, or Rei waiting at Shinji's sickroom in ep. 6- I didn't notice she was sitting next to that coffin-like box he's in untill I read the script for the commentaries. Or the first tube scene - Lots of ppl, including me, missed the smalls smiles Gendo & Rei were exchanging, so they added a little chair to make us realize that he was keeping her company the whole time.

PS: Do those spikes remind anyone else of the LoL?

[A.T. Fish]

PS: Do those spikes remind anyone else of the LoL

Not really, it's just a generic, maroon colored, spiral structured, piercing device.

[wonderluster]

Not really, it's just a generic, maroon colored, spiral structured, piercing device.

In other words, YES.

It's just more like GIGA DORIRU as opposed to double helix.

[supershinjiasukashipper]

If it is a reference to stigmata, it dosn't mean they are portraying Shinji as a Christ figure, but a saint. Many saints have had the stigmata appear.
Not to mention that isn't all the stigmata, there are five distinct wounds, two in the feet, two in the wrists (contrary to popular belief, Christ was nailed to the cross by his wrists. Hands could not support his body weight. ), the mark on the forehead by the crown of thorns, the flogging marks on the back, and the spear to his side. (which would have killed Shinji, and has killed other saints in the past.)
So Shinji is a saint. We shall dub him the patron saint of chronic masturbators.
Oh Shinji, please ask god to forgive me for this sin!

[Assasinate]

well i remember such thing about jesus christ but.....in a similar basis,
"if you going to stop force using your hand, your hand will take the force of the object" so it seems that its nothing for me though.... and also some angels had the kind of ability that can make an pilot suffer inside even he is untouched (ive also noticed it in the anime series)

[supershinjiasukashipper]

Thats because the pilot and the suit are synchronized. Any damage the happens to the suit, a certain extent of it is done to the pilot due to the sync intensity.

[SaltyJoe]

Those hardly form coherent whole and can be explained away, unlike the hand motif in NGE

There's the "Three Stages Of Shinji Getting His Hands Dirty" motif:

1.0-> Rei falls off the gurney, Shinji hepls her-> blood on his hand
2.0-> Kaji takes Shinji gardening-> dirt on his hand
2.0, again-> Unit-02 chrashlands inside Shinji's shelter-> blood & dirt on his hand

Pretty consistent.

As for the stigmata thing:

As for the hand impaling, it is just too explicit to be dismissed, it is indeed a reference to the wounds of Christ, but again, not supposed to mean something greater, just there as a visual shocking image that happens to have a religious connection.

I'm leaning towards this.

[Xard]

There's the "Three Stages Of Shinji Getting His Hands Dirty" motif:

1.0-> Rei falls off the gurney, Shinji hepls her-> blood on his hand
2.0-> Kaji takes Shinji gardening-> dirt on his hand
2.0, again-> Unit-02 chrashlands inside Shinji's shelter-> blood & dirt on his hand

Pretty consistent.

Thanks! I didn't take 1.0 in account

Hmm, interesting