[Music] The Grand Music Discussion Thread

[Bomby von Bombsville]

Mmm... on a different track here, anyone listen to any flamenco? I'm a big fan of Paco de Lucia, and I feel like I need more flamenco.

"Almoraima" is just so amazing.

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

This thread needs moar hipster douchebag indie pop. Since I'm a hipster douchebag, I figure I'm the perfect person to post it.]

Half of those videos made me sick. Like, phyiscally sick. Music wasn't bad, although it all sounded really samey, it's just that all the people in the videos made made me feel nothing but contempt for my generation. I'm now undergoing the process of desperately rationalizing why that is. Will report back with progress.

[KnightmareX13]

Half of those videos made me sick. Like, phyiscally sick. Music wasn't bad, although it all sounded really samey, it's just that all the people in the videos made made me feel nothing but contempt for my generation. I'm now undergoing the process of desperately rationalizing why that is. Will report back with progress.

I get the same feeling from those videos, along with a sudden urge to do a face palm.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

Lame.

*pumps Big Boi's new album*

[BeoX2]

Recently starting to appreciate the full extent of Yoko Kanno's mastery of the art.

[backseatjesus]

Recently starting to appreciate the full extent of Yoko Kanno's mastery of the art.

I need to check her out. Need to buy some The Seatbelt cds.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Recently starting to appreciate the full extent of Yoko Kanno's mastery of the art.

I realized this a while ago, but found that it sucked to pay $40 for import CDs to enjoy her mastery.

[Xard]

Recently starting to appreciate the full extent of Yoko Kanno's mastery of the art.

oh, you're just on the start of the road, padawan

Anyway, The Pillows confirmed for coolest jap band (damn now I really want to listen to sum Pixies or The Breeders)


Oh, and the new K-ON!! Character Image Songs are awesome.

yay.

[BeoX2]

I realized this a while ago, but found that it sucked to pay $40 for import CDs to enjoy her mastery.

Pssst.... I know it's a cheap thing to do, but the easiest way is Video2mp3. That thing has made my life complete.

But seriously, Yoko Kanno should be canonized as the patron saint of unbelievable sounds.

And Backseat, check it all out. She has literally incredible range. Heavy metal, ethereal, jazz, blues, bebop, rock, pop, dance, and even some mardi gras style fun. Her vocalists are incredible, especially from the Bebop OSTs. Mai Yamane and Steve Conte are amazing. However, her work for Wolf's Rain is amazing too.

[planet news]

Half of those videos made me sick. Like, phyiscally sick. Music wasn't bad, although it all sounded really samey, it's just that all the people in the videos made made me feel nothing but contempt for my generation. I'm now undergoing the process of desperately rationalizing why that is. Will report back with progress.

Coming from a Lady Gaga fan...

Not that I disagree. Most of that music is trying to be some kind of "throwback" anyways. But if anything's this generation, it's your Gaga electropop.

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

Admittedly, since I've gotten into Gaga, I've spilled over somewhat into un-ironically enjoying genuinely awful pop music through osmosis (just yesterday I found myself flailing around the room to the beat of Ke$ha's offensively stupid "Tik-Tok") but on the whole, I find Gaga's image and music to be not only harmless, but not contemptible and only delightfully stupid.

First off, I'm not a musician, and know little about the technical aspects involved, therefore I can only judge music in terms of its lyrical content and how it makes me feel, be it melancholy, joy, a shiver up my spine from the sheer mastery of the sounds I'm hearing, or merely the lowly urge to dance. Now, when it comes to Gaga, I find her lyrics range from awful to surprisingly good, and her songs range from generic to incredibly catchy and fun. I will say that 'The Fame Monster' is better than 'The Fame' in every conceivable way, mainly because the latter was gratuitously stuffed with crappy filler. The songs that Bomby linked to didn't inspire any emotion in me whatsoever, however, the videos and the image saturated in them filled me with disgust.

Now, I'm not going to try and justify Gaga's artistry to you. I know for a fact that she's capable of much better music than she's already put out, but is clearly downplaying that for popularity, because vapidity sells to vapid people. Her earlier pre-Fame piano stuff is wondrous and I'm hoping that she'll allow her next album to be even better now that she's sold herself to the masses. Now that I've admitted that her music is danceable, although generic, I can safely admit that what I like most about Gaga is her image. She goes places in her videos that are so over-the-top, silly and strange that it awakens in my dry and bitter heart the long dead emotion I once recognized as 'fun'. Deep down, I will always be a lover of camp, and Gaga has that in spades. Contrariwise, in those videos, all I saw were empty people wallowing in shallow, ersatz edginess and not even doing a very good job of it.

Now, of course it would be naive to think that an entire generation can be defined by one category of music, so maybe I was guilty in my initial choice of words, referring to my "entire" generation, but for every loser who loves electropop, you've also got the other kids who rebel for the sake of rebelling. Who hate for the sake of hatred. Who are trendy for the sake of trendiness. The people in those videos are aimless, lost souls, simultaneously shunning everything Gaga and 'the mainstream' stand for, but striving to be a part of it. There is nothing more sad and pathetic than not knowing where one's loyalties and values lie. These pour souls rebel against commercialism while wearing trendy clothes and pocketing all the newest toys. I would much rather embrace falsehood, than indecisively tip-toe back and forth across the line desperately pleading for attention. Gaga might be fake, she might even be a parasite in the Randian sense, but she's honest about how fake she is, about how she feeds off attention like a fat, greasy slug. These children are slugs who can't admit, won't admit to being slugs, because they're too "cool".

And last but not least, Planet, although I am a Gaga fan, I am also your fan. We don't have to sell our souls to a certain genre of music, it's only a lifestyle if you want to get Faustian with it. We're all completely free to enjoy all kinds of music.

Now that that's over, I can give myself a banana sticker. Just like my Spielberg rant earlier in the week, this came off much meaner than I expected.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

Hmm...

Nope, still lame.

The people in those videos are aimless, lost souls, simultaneously shunning everything Gaga and 'the mainstream' stand for, but striving to be a part of it.

I don't see any "shunning" going on. You're reading way too much into it. Just because they're not taking the effort to... do whatever it is you want them to do doesn't mean that they're trying to... rebel against whatever the fuck it is you want them to do.

The greatest irony of all this is the sheer number of "hipsters" who not only appreciate but actively and unironically enjoy Lady Gaga and her aesthetic (I think I'm actually starting to become one of them), therefore discounting your whole argument. Even Pitchfork Media, the golden shrine of hipsterdom, gave both of Gaga's albums good reviews. Her image is totally down hipster lane, with her outspoken support of gay rights and bisexuality and genderfucking all.

If you don't like the music part, whatever, but don't go all "righteous indignation" on the whole thing based off of some random bullshit assumptions you pulled out of your ass about the people based off of the fact that they're... not doing something that you think they should be doing.

[GasmaskAvenger]

-Kreator's Pleasure To Kill is THE best thrash metal album to ever come out of Europe. One of the most absurdly violent, savage albums ever recorded, this was basically death metal in 1986, and even today it feels pretty damn extreme. it's unhinged, it's sloppy as fuck, and I wouldn't have it any other way - the fact that the musicianship is so persistently 'on-the-rails' is what makes this so appealing; the effect would've fallen off if they had played with the precision of, say, Dream Theater. Mille's and Ventor's vocals are absolutely blood-curling, and the riffs are brilliant throughout. Kreator's first five albums are absolutely exceptional but this, especially with the Flag of Hate tracks, remains most special to me.

Its a pretty damn good and chaotic album


however...Sarcofago released their debut LP "I.N.R.I." the following year and gives Pleasure to Kill in the chaotic, crazy as hell department


moving on to other subjects, on the subject of Lady Gaga, I personally say that she'll probably release her most seminal and unpop album somewhere later down the line. As mentioned, her pre-album days with the piano shows she's got the chops, but is raking up the cash by making commercial pop music with an electro edge.


I don't listen to her, nor any current pop music to speak of either, just saying what's in my gut

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

I wrote a much longer response, but fuck it. My argument holds less water than an origami spaghetti strainer. I'll accept defeat and take it as a lesson in humility, and that I need to think harder about what I say when I fly off on passionate, indignant speeches. I take back most of what I said, but I'll point out that although some 'hipsters' (if we must use that word) might like Gaga, there's no way in hell all of them do. Over-generalization in general is a terrible idea, and it's probably what I should be most morally indignant about. I'll simply apologize for dissing those artists, because although I don't like them aesthetically, the extent of my outrage was primarily manufactured on the fly. If I wanted to rant about them, I should have done my research, to see if there was anytime worth ranting about or just kept my mouth shut.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

Well obviously not every hipster likes Lady Gaga, but there's a significant portion who do. I understand not liking a certain style of music, but it seemed like you were getting super worked up about it.

Not that I'm really one to talk, since I have a tendency to have the same problem myself...

So whatever it's cool bruh.

[planet news]

First off, I'm not a musician, and know little about the technical aspects involved, therefore I can only judge music in terms of its lyrical content and how it makes me feel, be it melancholy, joy, a shiver up my spine from the sheer mastery of the sounds I'm hearing, or merely the lowly urge to dance.

Jeez, this is such an utterly shallow way of looking at music...... sorry that you can "only" do this.... you are missing out on all the theory and stuff that makes it REALLY worthwhile!!!!!!!1

The songs that Bomby linked to didn't inspire any emotion in me whatsoever, however, the videos and the image saturated in them filled me with disgust.

I totally agree with you. The songs are boring and the lyrical content is pretty vapid, though, like Lady Gaga, in some kind of subversive ironic way. Whatever, I'm tired of this. I don't think it really exists. Dada is the only subversive art, because you can't really "liek" it.

Now, I'm not going to try and justify Gaga's artistry to you. I know for a fact that she's capable of much better music than she's already put out, but is clearly downplaying that for popularity, because vapidity sells to vapid people.

I'd pretty much say that douchers like Wavves and Best Coast can't do anything else than the super-simple stuff they're doing now. They get away with being seen as real artists by looking like they "just don't care", but they're frauds. At least Lady Gaga doesn't try to pull the authentic card like these Converse-wearing Green Day offshoots do.

, of course it would be naive to think that an entire generation can be defined by one category of music, so maybe I was guilty in my initial choice of words, referring to my "entire" generation, but for every loser who loves electropop, you've also got the other kids who rebel for the sake of rebelling. Who hate for the sake of hatred. Who are trendy for the sake of trendiness. ... These pour souls rebel against commercialism while wearing trendy clothes and pocketing all the newest toys.

I totally agree.

Let me bring up this film Exit Through The Gift Shop. It's kind of a documentary on the street art movement. As you know street art is basically graffiti with a consistent aesthetic. Many of these guys focus on political issues, but they're messages are of the simplistic naive kind: "OBEY" or "MAKE ART/NOT WAR". Anyways, the funny thing is how they all host art shows to hollywood celebrities and have their own clothing lines and stuff now when before they were breaking the law and challenging the concept of art. Now their graffiti is DISPLAYED IN art galleries? WTF? It's a total sham, and the people who "liek" their art think it's not a sham but mad authentic, subversive stuff.

The analogy to this sort of stuff is obvious.

Pitchfork is just weird, and I don't really like them very much anymore. For that matter, I'm trying to move away from pop music in general, but it's hard because I have a fetish for commodities.

And last but not least, Planet, although I am a Gaga fan, I am also your fan.

Appeal to flattery works on me.

[MugwumpHasNoLiver]

Oh Planet, you get me so HAWT! I want to do unspeakable things to you, then come back to this forum and speak about them.

I do have an interest in deepening my understanding of music, but not right now. I don't see why not, although it's probably just because I'm so damn easily distracted. Hell, I can barely force myself to write right now, despite having nothing better to do. Incidentally, I should be doing that right now. That preface is more of less a cop-out to let everyone know I have no idea what I'm talking about, which, in retrospect, is not a very good debate tool. I take pride in the fact that I only lie to my friends and family, because fuck those people, I'm sick of dealing with them.

And I wasn't trying to appeal to you vanity, my dear sweet Mistaah Planet News (even if you DO make me HAWT), I was just trying to point out that 'Lady Gaga Fan' is a terribly narrow way of describing me. I like other music to, you know.

[Oz]

I'll just leave this and let you gentlemen continue this fine, pretentious tirade.

SPOILER: Show

Oku Hanako has the most soothing and angelic voice on Earth. Agreed?

[Bomby von Bombsville]

Oh for fuck's sake...

The songs are boring and the lyrical content is pretty vapid, though, like Lady Gaga, in some kind of subversive ironic way. Whatever, I'm tired of this.

I'd pretty much say that douchers like Wavves and Best Coast can't do anything else than the super-simple stuff they're doing now. They get away with being seen as real artists by looking like they "just don't care", but they're frauds.

Pop music has always been vapid and simple. "When I'm With You" is just a love song, and "No Hope Kids" is about not having shit. I don't think they're trying to change the world. They're expressing whatever it is they're feeling at the time, which is generally what the purpose of making art is in the first place.

What is a "real artist" anyway? Someone who's work is "deep?" What qualifies as "deep" to you? And what makes the music you listen to so much better? Because it's more complicated? What's wrong with simplicity, and furthermore, what's wrong with enjoying something simple?

I like Best Coast because it's just an enjoyable little pop song that captured how I was feeling at the time. I like Wavves because of the energy, the fuzz, the snarling sing-songy vocals, and the fact that I'm hilariously unemployed right now, no matter how hard I try to get a job. I like Dan Deacon for his experimentation with sounds and the way he gradually builds upon a single note and fills it out with more things. I like No Age because it captures the classic punk rock energy. I like Girls because I can really feel the longing in the singer for something greater in his life.

I'm not trying to intellectualize any of it because there's nothing to be intellectualized. It's purely visceral. Simple pop music about simple emotions. It's not the end of the world.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Pssst.... I know it's a cheap thing to do, but the easiest way is Video2mp3.

Not good enough since I must have no less than lossless quality audio. It sucks sometimes being an audiophile.

The greatest irony of all this is the sheer number of "hipsters" who not only appreciate but actively and unironically enjoy Lady Gaga and her aesthetic (I think I'm actually starting to become one of them),

I don't feel like much of a hipster, but I do dig me some Gaga aesthetic, though I'm still rather indifferent to her actual music.

Pop music has always been vapid and simple... I'm not trying to intellectualize any of it because there's nothing to be intellectualized. It's purely visceral. Simple pop music about simple emotions. It's not the end of the world.

I'm not so sure I agree with this. Like I was saying in the art thread, all art can be deep and/or simple on a great number of levels. I agree that nearly all of pop music is designed to be ostensibly simple, ie, working from simple melodies, themes, emotions, etc., but I think the best manage to turn that simplicity into profundity with a great amount of subtlety, inventiveness, and other qualities that effect the, well, quality of the aesthetic experience. If we make a cinematic comparison, Ozu is always ostensibly sensible. Like pop music, he isn't trying to be deep in terms of narrative or technique, but it's the sophistication with which he applies this craft that makes it all more than the sum of its parts. Artists like Beatles and Dylan and Hendrix are deep because of (more than in spite of) their ostensible simplicity.

On a side note, when it comes to simple, vapid, well-constructed pop music I do kinda have a thing for Maroon 5. Yeah, I realize all the teenage girls go nuts over them, but they seem to put together a nice combination of rock, funk, soul, with a really pure sense of pop melody.